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Author Topic: Grandfathered renewals ???  (Read 11656 times)
W6GF
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2013, 05:52:08 PM »

Pardon me for getting a little crude, but, if they have time for bathroom needs, they have time for license renewal.  They both take the same amount of time

George, W6GF
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BASSMAN12350
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Posts: 6




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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 08:56:20 AM »

Difficult for me to imagine anyone to whom amateur radio means anything at all "forgetting" to renew his or her license for a period of years. 
Actually, I fit into that category.......I retired, got busy with other things (I was a tech plus) and simply let my license expire.  Amateur radio does mean a lot to me (I had my ticket for 20+ years), my priorities simply were required to change for a while.  I am testing again at the end of this week to get my ticket back, though it will probably be with a new call sign.  I have no one to blame but myself for letting my license lapse........and yes, it would not have taken any real effort for my to "re-up" before it expired.  That being said, I am looking forward to being back on.....

73, Steve (former KC6MLZ)
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KA2ODP
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Posts: 35




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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2013, 09:12:20 PM »

I agree with the statement: "Difficult for me to imagine anyone to whom amateur radio means anything at all "forgetting" to renew his or her license for a period of years."

A ten year license period, plus a TWO year grace period, is pretty generous.  You will not find such a deal with your drivers license!

I spent over 24 years on active duty in the Air Force.  My career included multiple overseas assignments and deployments.  I never "forgot" to renew my license.  But then, I stayed active in Amateur Radio - even when stationed overseas.

In the mid 1980's I passed the combined Technician/General written exam.  In 2003 I finally upgraded to General by taking the written exam again.  I met the requirements to be "grandfathered" just by showing my old Technician license, but I wanted to prove I knew the current material.  I continued to study and the following year upgraded to Amateur Extra.

As a Volunteer Examiner (VE) I know that rule changes, new frequency allocations, and changing RF hazard standards are included when the answer pools are updated. It is always good to brush up on the changes.  Not too long ago there was a change to one of the authorized 60-meter frequencies.  Things do change with time.
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K0RGR
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Posts: 106




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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 12:51:44 PM »

Several countries have 'lifetime' operator licenses, and I don't see why we shouldn't just as well.
There are so many other cases where we give credit for having passed examinations decades ago, that it seems a little weird not to just do it for all tests.

There are some complications. First, what constitutes proof of an expired license, and acceptable proof of identity? If John Q. Smith shows up with a callbook entry that says he held a license in some other state sometime in the distant past, how do we know it's valid?

Also, how do you handle expired licenses of classes that are no longer issued? Is a pre-WWII Class B a General or a Technician now? Is a Class A an Advanced or an Extra? Of course, I think pre-war Class A and B's should be grandfathered 'up' - there aren't many of them still around. What about the Class C Conditionals and Technician (C)?  I believe the proposal spelled out how these should be handled, but it gets very complicated.

I believe the current 10 year span for a STATION license is a fine thing, and should be retained. But the OPERATOR license should be good for life. If you want to start requiring 'checkrides' like  they do for pilot licenses, then that's something to consider.
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W3HF
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2013, 03:42:22 PM »

Several countries have 'lifetime' operator licenses, and I don't see why we shouldn't just as well.
There are so many other cases where we give credit for having passed examinations decades ago, that it seems a little weird not to just do it for all tests.

There are some complications. First, what constitutes proof of an expired license, and acceptable proof of identity? If John Q. Smith shows up with a callbook entry that says he held a license in some other state sometime in the distant past, how do we know it's valid?

Also, how do you handle expired licenses of classes that are no longer issued? Is a pre-WWII Class B a General or a Technician now? Is a Class A an Advanced or an Extra? Of course, I think pre-war Class A and B's should be grandfathered 'up' - there aren't many of them still around. What about the Class C Conditionals and Technician (C)?  I believe the proposal spelled out how these should be handled, but it gets very complicated.

I believe the current 10 year span for a STATION license is a fine thing, and should be retained. But the OPERATOR license should be good for life. If you want to start requiring 'checkrides' like  they do for pilot licenses, then that's something to consider.

All of these issues (valid proof of license, valid proof of identity, and no-longer-issued license classes) were addressed in either the original Anchorage VEC proposal or in the comments that were submitted by interested parties. In fact, the current grandfather situation (pre-87 Technicians) already has to address them. Yes it can get complicated with all the variations, but various solutions were proposed.

At this point (with the comment periods closed) all we can do is wait and see what the FCC decides to do.
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N2EY
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Posts: 3913




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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2013, 08:33:31 AM »

Several countries have 'lifetime' operator licenses, and I don't see why we shouldn't just as well.
There are so many other cases where we give credit for having passed examinations decades ago, that it seems a little weird not to just do it for all tests.

Actually the only case I know of is the Tech-prior-to-March-1987-to-General upgrade thing. In all other cases, the licensee has to have kept the license renewed.

There are some complications. First, what constitutes proof of an expired license, and acceptable proof of identity? If John Q. Smith shows up with a callbook entry that says he held a license in some other state sometime in the distant past, how do we know it's valid?

Exactly. On top of that is the fact that before about 1967 the Callbooks did not show license class. And except for Novices the callsign wasn't a license class indicator.

Also, how do you handle expired licenses of classes that are no longer issued? Is a pre-WWII Class B a General or a Technician now?

A General, because if the person had just kept renewing, that's what they'd have.

Is a Class A an Advanced or an Extra?

Advanced. For the same reason.


Of course, I think pre-war Class A and B's should be grandfathered 'up' - there aren't many of them still around. What about the Class C Conditionals and Technician (C)?  I believe the proposal spelled out how these should be handled, but it gets very complicated.

Conditionals became Generals in the 1970s. Pre-1987 Techs can get a free upgrade to General.

I believe the current 10 year span for a STATION license is a fine thing, and should be retained. But the OPERATOR license should be good for life. If you want to start requiring 'checkrides' like  they do for pilot licenses, then that's something to consider.

The problem there is that FCC has moved more and more to reduce the distinction between station and operator license - so why should they create more admin work for themselves?

There have been a number of proposals to FCC about "free upgrades" and such. One that I remember came from QCWA, and proposed that all who held Generals, Conditionals and Advanceds before November 22, 1968 should get a full privileges. The claim was that they'd had full privileges back-then, that "incentive licensing" was a failure, and so they should get back what they'd had ~40 years ago.

FCC said, in effect: "No, just take the test if you want the privileges".

---

I mean, folks - the current Extra has been earned by elementary schoolers, including at least one 7 year old! Yes, a bright 7 year old with lots of help, but still, a 7 year old! And this isn't new - back in 1948, W3OVV earned her Class B at the age of 9 - 13 wpm code, essay-question written, FCC examiner, the whole thing.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 619




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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 09:27:01 PM »

Kuby (and all who won't put forth the effort),
Does your physician keep up his/her continuing education requirements?
I guess, based on your premise its fine if that physician never opens another medical book or reads or studies the latest research in their chosen field of practice.
I guess you would happily hop aboard an airliner who's pilot doesn't believe in taking his/her annual/biannual flight reviews.
Now, true, YOUR life may not depend on your properly operating your hammy radio BUT, your neighbor's might, when you interfere with your local ambulance (or police, or fire, or electric or gas utility) while its trying to locate your stricken neighbor.  NO THANKS!  If you're not willing to spend the miniscule effort to STAY CURRENT in your chosen avocation, then, PLEASE STAY OUT of it for everyone's sake.
Tom
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AB9NZ
Member

Posts: 177




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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2013, 06:40:06 PM »

Tom, are you arguing that the 13,438  novices that have perpetually renewed their licenses are staying current?
   73 de Tom, ab9nz
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K6CPO
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Posts: 164




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« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2013, 11:31:01 AM »

I'm of the school that a ten year license and a two year grace period is more than generous.  As some have already said, the technology and operating rules have changed over the years and if someone is getting back into the hobby after a prolonged absence, they need to be up to date.

Some have said that amateur radio should just go to a lifetime license or eliminate the requirement altogether.  While it's simple to obtain a license today than it was 20 years ago, the requirement still helps keep the hobby stable.  I don't think anyone here wants to see Amateur Radio end up like CB...
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