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Author Topic: Windows XP - the end approaches......  (Read 17636 times)
W8JX
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« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2013, 06:23:10 PM »

No one is talking about having to have the latest and greatest.  But it is ridiculous to be stuck with old outdated hardware and an unsupportd operating system just because you are afraid of change.  

Valid point.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2013, 04:40:59 AM »

...But it is ridiculous to be stuck with old outdated hardware and an unsupportd operating system just because you are afraid of change.  People like you like to use the above excuse you have given when the truth is that you are just afraid and set in your ways.  You know deep down inside that it is true too, it bothers you so much that you come in a forum like this to huff and puff.  Sorry to have upset you so.

Sorry, but you're making a generalized assumption here.  It isn't always that the person is 'afraid of change,' it is sometimes about how the newer OS behaves with the software available.  Microsoft is notorious for making changes under the guise of 'improvements' that renders older software unusable.  That effort is seen (by the smarter of us, at least) as a way to force the purchase of the newer OS.

I admit that I did not like having to use the 'metro' interface of Win 8 beta, but it was usable.  The Win 8 general release included the ability to switch to the 'classic' Win 7 desktop--a definite improvement for those who still used a keyboard and mouse.  The clincher, however, was that with the revised coding, some software that Win 7 supported easily was no longer useable--and that same thing has been happening between the software and the OS ever since the Windows 2000 release. 

I for one get sick and tired of having to pay out to these software giants every time someone has a newer idea--and puts that idea into production in the form of a revised OS.  If the older system and software (and hardware, for that matter--re: the elimination of serial ports in favor of USB ports) works for what someone is doing with it--and they're satisfied with the system they are using, you have no cause--or right--to label that person as you have.  You come off just like a kid with a new toy--calling down another kid because they don't have that toy.  So go and play with your new OS and hardware, and leave the rest of us in peace.  Oh, yes...  and have a nice day!
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2013, 05:17:01 AM »

Bottom line here is that Microsoft will force some major customers into the LINUX camp.  When the cost of software rewrites, to accommodate the latest-and-greatest version of Windows, exceeds the costs of rewriting to the LINUX platform, coupled with the lower cost of the LINUX OS, productivity software such as OpenOffice and required hardware, the money will drive the decision making process. 

Keep in mind that there is a significant amount of text-based, business software still in use today.  The Windows environment is not always the best fit.
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K5UNX
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« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2013, 10:13:46 AM »

Sorry, but you're making a generalized assumption here.  It isn't always that the person is 'afraid of change,' it is sometimes about how the newer OS behaves with the software available.  Microsoft is notorious for making changes under the guise of 'improvements' that renders older software unusable.  That effort is seen (by the smarter of us, at least) as a way to force the purchase of the newer OS.

I admit that I did not like having to use the 'metro' interface of Win 8 beta, but it was usable.  The Win 8 general release included the ability to switch to the 'classic' Win 7 desktop--a definite improvement for those who still used a keyboard and mouse.  The clincher, however, was that with the revised coding, some software that Win 7 supported easily was no longer useable--and that same thing has been happening between the software and the OS ever since the Windows 2000 release. 

I for one get sick and tired of having to pay out to these software giants every time someone has a newer idea--and puts that idea into production in the form of a revised OS.  If the older system and software (and hardware, for that matter--re: the elimination of serial ports in favor of USB ports) works for what someone is doing with it--and they're satisfied with the system they are using, you have no cause--or right--to label that person as you have.  You come off just like a kid with a new toy--calling down another kid because they don't have that toy.  So go and play with your new OS and hardware, and leave the rest of us in peace.  Oh, yes...  and have a nice day!

I am using Win 8 for my work laptop. It is really not any worse to use than Win7.  The Metro apps are interesting but without a touch screen they don't make sense. Working with the standard desktop interface is just like working with Win 7. I just unpinned app from the start screen until I have the 15 or 20 that I use weekly and it's actually very useful. With you hands on the keyboard, it's easy to start any application without touching the mouse. I can start MS Word for example faster from the keyboard with Win8, than by taking my hand away from the keyboard to the mouse, navigating and clicking.  It's not near as bad as people talk about after I have been actually using it everyday for work for the last 2 months. It's a lot better than people think who have not used it.

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W8JX
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« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2013, 10:55:45 AM »

Bottom line here is that Microsoft will force some major customers into the LINUX camp.  When the cost of software rewrites, to accommodate the latest-and-greatest version of Windows, exceeds the costs of rewriting to the LINUX platform, coupled with the lower cost of the LINUX OS, productivity software such as OpenOffice and required hardware, the money will drive the decision making process. 

Keep in mind that there is a significant amount of text-based, business software still in use today.  The Windows environment is not always the best fit.

As hardware evolved so has OS. Even 5 years ago the average system is much slower than today and faster hardware lets you use a more interactive OS with more whistles and bells. The problem with Linux is there is not standard and there is many flavors. New hardware is cheap and more energy efficient and increases productivity both factors in corporate America. You evolve and change or put feet in cement and fall behind.
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WW7KE
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Posts: 56




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« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2013, 12:22:57 PM »


If one sticks to the most popular Linux distros (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.), there won't be any hardware or driver issues.  But using something that is more "bare-metal," such as Slackware or Gentoo, might give an inexperienced person fits.  I use Slackware and Mint and have no trouble with either as far as setting them up is concerned, but some of my low-end PCs just won't run Slackware due to video issues, but run Mint just fine.  But those same PCs won't run Windows 7 either.

And there is plenty of good software for Linux.  In fact, most of the more popular ones (Firefox, Google Chrome, LibreOffice, VLC media player, VMWare) are available for both.  This is as it should be.  There certainly are more software titles available for Windows, but the gap is narrowing.

Interesting.  My experience is quite the opposite.  More problems getting the right drivers on Linux and many sound card and video card driver snafus on Linux.  Then after/if you get things running OK on Linux, there is always a glitch here and there.

Video can still be an issue, but it's getting better.  The problem there is with vendors who won't release open-source drivers.  But I haven't seen any issues with sound for many years.

And there aren't any glitches when setting up Windows systems?  Riiiiiight.  You're either very lucky or just flat-out trolling.  Any OS will have some problems - none are perfect.

Quote
Any serious software that you have to use in business and to get things done just isn't quite there in Linux.  LibreOffice is a joke compared to MS Office, for example.

Depends on what you're doing.  For my purposes at work, LibreOffice actually works better than MSOffice.  It's faster, and doesn't have that butt-ugly & useless ribbon interface.  But everybody has their preference.  The issues with compatibility between them are almost (but not entirely) gone now.

Quote
 It is OK for home/hobby users, but an exercise in frustration in a business setting.  A lot of the software on Linux is half done/half implemented and frustrating to use.  I do use Linux, mainly for GNURadio and Linrad which runs better on Linux than Windows (the main developers did not target Windows), but I could do without Linux, unlike Windows.

Tell that to NASA.  Laptops on the International Space Station are going to be fitted with Debian 6.  Windows is done on the ISS.

Quote
Oh, I have had many more applications software crashes on Linux than in Windows since Windows 95/98.

Very rarely have I had an app crash - Firefox (also crashes from time to time on Windows) is the worst.  But app crashes are the app maintainer's problem, not a Linux problem.  I've had far more crashes on Windows than Linux.  A kernel panic is rare unless I was screwing around with the system.  Can't say that about blue screens in Windows, although Win7 is much better than XP in that regard.

And the reason I switched to Linux in the first place was to get away from security issues and crashes in DOS-based Win98.
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WW7KE
Member

Posts: 56




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« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2013, 12:41:04 PM »

Bottom line here is that Microsoft will force some major customers into the LINUX camp.  When the cost of software rewrites, to accommodate the latest-and-greatest version of Windows, exceeds the costs of rewriting to the LINUX platform, coupled with the lower cost of the LINUX OS, productivity software such as OpenOffice and required hardware, the money will drive the decision making process. 

LibreOffice has supplanted OO, but what you're saying is correct.  I dual-boot Win7 Pro and Linux Mint 13 on my PC at work, and can run XP in virtual machines in both.  I am far more productive in Mint than I am in Win7.  In fact, I rarely have to boot into Win7 at all - maybe once every other week to run one piece of software that requires it.

Quote
Keep in mind that there is a significant amount of text-based, business software still in use today.  The Windows environment is not always the best fit.

Not only that, but there is still plenty of older business software in use that absolutely will not run under Windows 7.  The company I work for as a lot of this software and will not pay the $thousands required to upgrade.  Businesses just aren't going to spend kilobucks to upgrade their hardware and software every time Microsoft comes out with a new OS.

At home, in our shacks, we can use whatever we like.  But at work, we have to use what we're told to use.  Fortunately, my company is rather lenient, so long the OS is a recent version of Linux, or WinXP or 7 Pro (Win8 has not been approved for our use, either on our desktops or in our products).
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SWL2002
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Posts: 227




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« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2013, 04:47:23 AM »


If one sticks to the most popular Linux distros (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.), there won't be any hardware or driver issues.  But using something that is more "bare-metal," such as Slackware or Gentoo, might give an inexperienced person fits.  I use Slackware and Mint and have no trouble with either as far as setting them up is concerned, but some of my low-end PCs just won't run Slackware due to video issues, but run Mint just fine.  But those same PCs won't run Windows 7 either.

And there is plenty of good software for Linux.  In fact, most of the more popular ones (Firefox, Google Chrome, LibreOffice, VLC media player, VMWare) are available for both.  This is as it should be.  There certainly are more software titles available for Windows, but the gap is narrowing.

Interesting.  My experience is quite the opposite.  More problems getting the right drivers on Linux and many sound card and video card driver snafus on Linux.  Then after/if you get things running OK on Linux, there is always a glitch here and there.

Video can still be an issue, but it's getting better.  The problem there is with vendors who won't release open-source drivers.  But I haven't seen any issues with sound for many years.

And there aren't any glitches when setting up Windows systems?  Riiiiiight.  You're either very lucky or just flat-out trolling.  Any OS will have some problems - none are perfect.

Quote
Any serious software that you have to use in business and to get things done just isn't quite there in Linux.  LibreOffice is a joke compared to MS Office, for example.

Depends on what you're doing.  For my purposes at work, LibreOffice actually works better than MSOffice.  It's faster, and doesn't have that butt-ugly & useless ribbon interface.  But everybody has their preference.  The issues with compatibility between them are almost (but not entirely) gone now.

Quote
 It is OK for home/hobby users, but an exercise in frustration in a business setting.  A lot of the software on Linux is half done/half implemented and frustrating to use.  I do use Linux, mainly for GNURadio and Linrad which runs better on Linux than Windows (the main developers did not target Windows), but I could do without Linux, unlike Windows.

Tell that to NASA.  Laptops on the International Space Station are going to be fitted with Debian 6.  Windows is done on the ISS.

Quote
Oh, I have had many more applications software crashes on Linux than in Windows since Windows 95/98.

Very rarely have I had an app crash - Firefox (also crashes from time to time on Windows) is the worst.  But app crashes are the app maintainer's problem, not a Linux problem.  I've had far more crashes on Windows than Linux.  A kernel panic is rare unless I was screwing around with the system.  Can't say that about blue screens in Windows, although Win7 is much better than XP in that regard.

And the reason I switched to Linux in the first place was to get away from security issues and crashes in DOS-based Win98.

Linux accounts for less than 5% of desktop users.  It is irrelevant and down in the noise.  I have apps from the Win95 days that still runs on Windows 8.   Too many applications for Linux are half finished, and very buggy.  I have seen more app crashes on Linux than on Windows since Windows 95/98/ME.

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SWL2002
Member

Posts: 227




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« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2013, 05:16:06 AM »

...But it is ridiculous to be stuck with old outdated hardware and an unsupportd operating system just because you are afraid of change.  People like you like to use the above excuse you have given when the truth is that you are just afraid and set in your ways.  You know deep down inside that it is true too, it bothers you so much that you come in a forum like this to huff and puff.  Sorry to have upset you so.

Sorry, but you're making a generalized assumption here.  It isn't always that the person is 'afraid of change,' it is sometimes about how the newer OS behaves with the software available.  Microsoft is notorious for making changes under the guise of 'improvements' that renders older software unusable.  That effort is seen (by the smarter of us, at least) as a way to force the purchase of the newer OS.

I admit that I did not like having to use the 'metro' interface of Win 8 beta, but it was usable.  The Win 8 general release included the ability to switch to the 'classic' Win 7 desktop--a definite improvement for those who still used a keyboard and mouse.  The clincher, however, was that with the revised coding, some software that Win 7 supported easily was no longer useable--and that same thing has been happening between the software and the OS ever since the Windows 2000 release. 

I for one get sick and tired of having to pay out to these software giants every time someone has a newer idea--and puts that idea into production in the form of a revised OS.  If the older system and software (and hardware, for that matter--re: the elimination of serial ports in favor of USB ports) works for what someone is doing with it--and they're satisfied with the system they are using, you have no cause--or right--to label that person as you have.  You come off just like a kid with a new toy--calling down another kid because they don't have that toy.  So go and play with your new OS and hardware, and leave the rest of us in peace.  Oh, yes...  and have a nice day!

It is legitimate to say that you don't want to upgrade from Windows XP because your system is running fine, or you don't want to go through the hassle of upgrading/reinstalling applications, or a particular application that you depend on only runs on XP, etc...  But it is not legitimate to make up a myriad of excuses why Windows 8 is worse than Windows XP or Linux.  If you are comfortable with what you have, that's fine.  Just don't make up a bunch on nonsense excuses why you won't upgrade when others who have upgraded have had no issues and are happy too.
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AG6WT
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Posts: 442




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« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2013, 01:26:20 PM »

The problem with Linux is there is not standard and there is many flavors.

There is a standard. Pretty much all Linux distributions use the same file system layout and the same versions of the standard libraries. This is why almost all Linux distributions have the same library of applications available to them and all can run the same must have apps like Chrome, Firefox, LibreOffice, Amarok, GIMP, Eclipse, etc.

I think by "many flavors" you are referring to the desk top environment, the work place shell. Granted there are many to choose from: Gnome, KDE, Unity, MATE, Xfce, LXDE, etc. and so it can be confusing for the unintiated. But virtually every Linux distribution lets you pick the one you want to use. Even more importantly, if your favorite distribution changes the desktop to something you absolutely hate, you can easily rollback to something that worked for you. IMHO, this is not a weakness of Linux, rather it is one of its major strengths!
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NK7Z
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Posts: 738


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« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2013, 01:53:10 PM »


Tell that to NASA.  Laptops on the International Space Station are going to be fitted with Debian 6.  Windows is done on the ISS.


Can you provide a link for this please?
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
WW7KE
Member

Posts: 56




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« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2013, 02:54:28 PM »


Tell that to NASA.  Laptops on the International Space Station are going to be fitted with Debian 6.  Windows is done on the ISS.

Can you provide a link for this please?

Here's one from TechnoBuffalo, dated May 10.  There are others - just do a search in Google's news section.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2013, 12:32:13 AM »

Linux accounts for less than 5% of desktop users.  It is irrelevant and down in the noise.  I have apps from the Win95 days that still runs on Windows 8.   Too many applications for Linux are half finished, and very buggy.  I have seen more app crashes on Linux than on Windows since Windows 95/98/ME.
You should let NASA know!!! 
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NK7Z
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Posts: 738


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« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2013, 12:33:22 AM »


Tell that to NASA.  Laptops on the International Space Station are going to be fitted with Debian 6.  Windows is done on the ISS.

Can you provide a link for this please?

Here's one from TechnoBuffalo, dated May 10.  There are others - just do a search in Google's news section.
Thank you sir, found it!
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
W2RWJ
Member

Posts: 176




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« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2013, 04:19:03 AM »

Linux accounts for less than 5% of desktop users.  It is irrelevant and down in the noise.  I have apps from the Win95 days that still runs on Windows 8.   Too many applications for Linux are half finished, and very buggy.  I have seen more app crashes on Linux than on Windows since Windows 95/98/ME.
You should let NASA know!!! 
Add Avaya to the list.  Red Hat replaced pecos/oryx for the operating system running their enterprise class telephone systems (Communications Manager, the successor to Definity)

If you are looking for large numbers of desktop users, google "Munich migrates to linux"
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