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Author Topic: K3 or ftdx3000  (Read 65878 times)
KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 465




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« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2013, 10:00:56 PM »

Re: PD2R

Apparently they are serious with short memories to boot.

Arguing about mundane stuff on the Internet is a time honored tradition.
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1619




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« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2013, 01:54:02 AM »

Re:KE7TMA

And a tradition worth upholding, especially when the bands are down and nothing but summer repeats on the tube. In the mean time I'm still up in the air about the best rig and value between a RockMite with a QRPME Texas Tuna Amp vs. an MFJ Cub running bare foot, any input?
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1236




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« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2013, 05:48:33 AM »

Arguing about mundane stuff on the Internet is a time honored tradition.

NO IT ISN'T!!!      Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink


And we were doing it before the web, via Fidonet, and then usenet, too.  :-)


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NZ0T
Member

Posts: 74




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« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2013, 06:42:46 AM »

The K3 has excellent audio, both TX and RX, if one actually takes the time to read and understand how to use it and set it up.  The beauty of the K3 is that it is easily customized to fit each amateur's needs both with hardware and and settings.  The support is superb and building one's rig is a great way to understand how it works and how to repair it if needed.  The rig is light and easy to move and doesn't take up space in my shack that is better used for other rigs and accessories.  For me the choice of a K3 over an overpriced, unnecessarily huge, poorly supported Japanese rig was easy.  Same reason I bought a Ford Fusion instead of an overpriced Honda Accord or Toyota Camry.  Too many people just make the assumption that Japanese products are always better.  Many times they are but often there are American made products that are just as good or better.

And, as a businessman I applaud the success of a start-up, American company like Elecraft especially in these tough economic times.
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1477




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« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2013, 10:15:30 AM »

DISCLAMER: I own a K3 and I think it may be the finest radio in the world.


Straight out of the box, the Kenwood TS-990 blows the K3 out of the water... However if you spend time actually setting up the K3 for your ear and your voice, it will out perform the Kenwood in every way. Look at the Sherwood test information. The Kenwood isn't even consistent band to band. Dynamic range narrow spaced varies from 85db (awful) to 95db (very good) where as the K3 is 101db with a $90 optional filter. Remember every 3db is double the dynamic range.

As far as aesthetics go, the K3 does look home brew and there are far better looking on the market. To my eyes, the Icom 7800 and the Yaesu FT 9000 contest are the two most attractive radios on the market. The TS-990 looks odd to me. The small center screen is too narrow for my liking and the simulated analog "dial" looks cartoonish at best. I do like the touch screen Panadapter and think that it is the wave of the future. But I can get the P3 for my K3 and use the VGA output for it and attach it to a touchscreen and save a few grand.

So if money grew on trees or if I played and won the lottery, I would still run a K3. The reason being, raw performance. Yes, I am giving up on aesthetics and some extra buttons would help, but there is no other rig out there that has the raw performance, repair-ability  and customer service Elecraft offers.
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5588




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« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2013, 10:47:10 AM »

DISCLAMER: I own a K3 and I think it may be the finest radio in the world.


Straight out of the box, the Kenwood TS-990 blows the K3 out of the water... However if you spend time actually setting up the K3 for your ear and your voice, it will out perform the Kenwood in every way. Look at the Sherwood test information. The Kenwood isn't even consistent band to band. Dynamic range narrow spaced varies from 85db (awful) to 95db (very good) where as the K3 is 101db with a $90 optional filter. Remember every 3db is double the dynamic range.

As far as aesthetics go, the K3 does look home brew and there are far better looking on the market. To my eyes, the Icom 7800 and the Yaesu FT 9000 contest are the two most attractive radios on the market. The TS-990 looks odd to me. The small center screen is too narrow for my liking and the simulated analog "dial" looks cartoonish at best. I do like the touch screen Panadapter and think that it is the wave of the future. But I can get the P3 for my K3 and use the VGA output for it and attach it to a touchscreen and save a few grand.

So if money grew on trees or if I played and won the lottery, I would still run a K3. The reason being, raw performance. Yes, I am giving up on aesthetics and some extra buttons would help, but there is no other rig out there that has the raw performance, repair-ability  and customer service Elecraft offers.

I think some one said we would soon hear it was best rig on planet too. Man the "s" is getting real deep. 
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AD9DX
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Posts: 1477




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« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2013, 11:01:39 AM »

I did it on purpose. However, the remainder of my statement holds true.

It really comes down to priorities. If looks and ease of operation is your highest priority, look elsewhere. If raw performance, digging out the weak ones during the CQWW 160m CW contest is your priority the K3 is hard to beat.
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5588




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« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2013, 11:50:08 AM »

I did it on purpose. However, the remainder of my statement holds true.

It really comes down to priorities. If looks and ease of operation is your highest priority, look elsewhere. If raw performance, digging out the weak ones during the CQWW 160m CW contest is your priority the K3 is hard to beat.

There is no question that K3 is a competent CW rig, as far as best there is that is a matter of personal needs but the K3 is not a world class SSB rig and more operators run SSB than CW too.
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1477




Ignore
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2013, 12:04:48 PM »

I did it on purpose. However, the remainder of my statement holds true.

It really comes down to priorities. If looks and ease of operation is your highest priority, look elsewhere. If raw performance, digging out the weak ones during the CQWW 160m CW contest is your priority the K3 is hard to beat.

There is no question that K3 is a competent CW rig, as far as best there is that is a matter of personal needs but the K3 is not a world class SSB rig and more operators run SSB than CW too.

I don't do much SSB, I primarily chase DX and only do SSB for contests and one 160m net with some local friends. So I don't really see the shortcomings on voice. I did spend considerable time getting the TX and RX EQ just "right" and am very happy with both. The internal speaker on the K3 is a joke but that's the case for most radios. I would love to see Elecraft so what Ten Tec has and design a speaker/power supply because the audio is very pleasant IF you use the EQ. I am currently using the Yaesu SP-2000 that I used with my old Yaesu FT-2000D. I put poly fill for stuffed animals in the cavity and its a very good speaker for the limited range that Single  Sideband offers.

I truly think that the K3 gets its bad rap on SSB quality on DXpeditions, where multiple ops use the same radio and no one really cares about the sound quality. If that is the only sample of K3 audio you ever hear, it's totally understandable that people think it sounds like a tin can.

Quite honestly we live in a great era of ham radio! There are really no terrible radios being produced anymore. They all sound decent and all have good receivers.
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 465




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« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2013, 06:35:57 PM »

Re:KE7TMA

And a tradition worth upholding, especially when the bands are down and nothing but summer repeats on the tube. In the mean time I'm still up in the air about the best rig and value between a RockMite with a QRPME Texas Tuna Amp vs. an MFJ Cub running bare foot, any input?

I am new to CW myself, but what's your power budget?  To me this is probably the #1 consideration when considering these particular radios, followed by sensitivity and selectivity.

I will say those QRPME kits are pretty cute!
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KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 2139




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« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2013, 06:45:14 PM »

DISCLAMER: I own a K3 and I think it may be the finest radio in the world.
--- Snip ---
there is no other rig out there that has the raw performance, repair-ability  and customer service Elecraft offers.
 

I think some one said we would soon hear it was best rig on planet too. Man the "s" is getting real deep.  

 So Deep that for the last few day I have been standing at the shore line waiting for the "s" to recede Wink but unfortunately it seems to be getting higher.
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KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 465




Ignore
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2013, 06:54:13 PM »

DISCLAMER: I own a K3 and I think it may be the finest radio in the world.


Straight out of the box, the Kenwood TS-990 blows the K3 out of the water... However if you spend time actually setting up the K3 for your ear and your voice, it will out perform the Kenwood in every way. Look at the Sherwood test information. The Kenwood isn't even consistent band to band. Dynamic range narrow spaced varies from 85db (awful) to 95db (very good) where as the K3 is 101db with a $90 optional filter. Remember every 3db is double the dynamic range.

As far as aesthetics go, the K3 does look home brew and there are far better looking on the market. To my eyes, the Icom 7800 and the Yaesu FT 9000 contest are the two most attractive radios on the market. The TS-990 looks odd to me. The small center screen is too narrow for my liking and the simulated analog "dial" looks cartoonish at best. I do like the touch screen Panadapter and think that it is the wave of the future. But I can get the P3 for my K3 and use the VGA output for it and attach it to a touchscreen and save a few grand.

So if money grew on trees or if I played and won the lottery, I would still run a K3. The reason being, raw performance. Yes, I am giving up on aesthetics and some extra buttons would help, but there is no other rig out there that has the raw performance, repair-ability  and customer service Elecraft offers.

The AGC fine tuning on the KX3 (I'm assuming it's nearly identical on the K3) is just the most amazing thing ever.  No more does one have to choose merely between slow, fast, and off.  The AGC slope control in particular is mind blowing.  I'm not aware of any other radios which have this feature.  While I was always impressed with the sensitivity and selectivity of the KX3, now that I have adjusted the AGC to my liking this radio pulls even further ahead of my other rigs.

Actually the more one looks into the KX3 (and by looking at the manual, the K3 as well) the more one is stunned by the adjustability.  I'm not aware of any other radios that allow such fine-tuning.

I am also impressed, as is NZ0T, at this American company's technical and customer service achievements, which are both at the top of the industry and their customer care should be a model for every other company, no matter the business.
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KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 465




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« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2013, 06:57:09 PM »

I think some one said we would soon hear it was best rig on planet too. Man the "s" is getting real deep. 

Is it really though?  Would you dispute the performance data the has been published in reviews, all of which agrees with (or even exceeds!) that published by Elecraft?

I guess it comes down to what is important to you when you ponder which radio is the "best."  Size and impressiveness, or TX/RX performance?
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KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 2139




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« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2013, 07:28:19 PM »

There is no question that K3 is a competent CW rig, as far as best there is that is a matter of personal needs but the K3 is not a world class SSB rig and more operators run SSB than CW too.

 Will you stop it with the all this Logical talk!! Huh  This thread has become the Fantasy place where Sheep gobble up Lions and world peace reigns.  Wink Cheesy

John Lennon Might have sung the K3 Kool-aid song the best with "Imagine".

Imagine all the people... using K3s all the time
No need for huge antennas
or amplifiers of any kind.
Its easy if you use Elecraft....because its Gods Gift to mankind... Ya ha ah ha.
You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you will join us
And the world will live as one.


« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 08:15:17 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 465




Ignore
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2013, 08:54:39 PM »

There is no question that K3 is a competent CW rig, as far as best there is that is a matter of personal needs but the K3 is not a world class SSB rig and more operators run SSB than CW too.

 Will you stop it with the all this Logical talk!! Huh  This thread has become the Fantasy place where Sheep gobble up Lions and world peace reigns.  Wink Cheesy

John Lennon Might have sung the K3 Kool-aid song the best with "Imagine".

Imagine all the people... using K3s all the time
No need for huge antennas
or amplifiers of any kind.
Its easy if you use Elecraft....because its Gods Gift to mankind... Ya ha ah ha.
You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you will join us
And the world will live as one.




What's interesting is that all the complaints about the K3's "terrible SSB performance" have merely been fluff, without much if any data to back them up.  Upon what have people been basing these opinions?

The K3 has perfectly respectable SSB TX figures according to the published reviews.  In another thread on this site one of the two unidentified posters in this thread made claims as to the K3's low SSB performance, citing figures that were far below the actual lab tests.  When confronted with his lies, the poster chose to slink away rather than being honorable and correcting his error.  This same poster has been here in this thread, making bizarre claims that can't actually be supported by data, and appealing to emotion.

Look at the figures and make up your mind.  The actual figures, not those being pushed on this board by unidentified reputation managers.
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