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Author Topic: Anan 100/D  (Read 77622 times)
K5TED
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Posts: 815




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« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2013, 07:26:45 PM »

Unfortunately I don't have a super secret underground link to turncoat Flex beta testers. Maybe you could create a website for this and invite us all to visit it.
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ZENKI
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« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2013, 07:31:29 PM »

If ANAN wants to attack the mainstream market outside of  a special interest user groups  it has to start advertising and promoting itself in the mainstream ham press.

The ANAN radio would also need to be reviewed. Its great making wonderful claims about a product but the product has to be independently tested and reviewed at the end of the day. Not everyone can afford to write off an experimental kit like the Anan if the claimed performance is not there. "Trust our group expertise" will not not work for most hams.  

Maybe someone could send Rob Sherwood an Anan for testing. I am sure once hams are convinced about the performance aspects of the Anan more will jump onto the bandwagon. Thats really why many hams are interested in SDR, performance bang for the dollar.

The numerous SDR transmitter kits like the softrocks and many others by other vendors are selling like hotcakes because of the price. You dont mind losing 100 or 200 dollars, however most cant afford to gamble with 2000 dollars for a ready made Anan if its unproven.

I dont blame buyers from not being enthusiastic because most promises on the ham SDR market have been vaporware that has never materialized.

There is no doubt that SDR technology is exciting, however in the ham market the potential is great but the technology opportunities have been squandered because of poor backing behind all the SDR startups. The marketers only have themselves to blame because what the technology can deliver now, cant be delivered by them because they dont have the expertise or resources to the deliver us all to the promised land. By the time the software that drives the solution is mature and is delivered you will probably have  to throw the hardware away for a new platform that is not resourced limited.

There is no killer or silver bullet feature yet in any SDR radio that will  make hams jump ship. Once you get over the fact that "wow my computer and box is my radio" you soon ask yourself the question well what does it do that I cant do with my Icom 706. Besides the panadapter and waterfall it cant do much more else than be a basic radio albeit  a radio with some performance advantages. If the SDR radio manufacturers dont start delivering  features soon  the momentum and excitement will be lost. SDR will just become JAR(just another radio)

My view is that the SDR  radio platform should be  concentrating on things like beam steering, noise canceling, direction finding and more test equipment features that sets it apart from other amateur transceiver products. Also the remote capabilities of the product say with a separate remote head would do more for SDR than just  bragging about the bandscope and waterfall. Yup its the features dummy, not the newness!



I have had my ANAN-100D for several months now and enjoying the finest rig I have ever owned. I did not have to even consider the Flex 6700 simply because of cost and lack of availability. The ANAN is a fine rig and the current software mRX 3.1.5 has more current capability than anything on the market and mRX is free and actively being maintained and upgraded. I could not ask for more. I don't think you will find anything close to its capability for $3k today. It works great sounds great and can do anything reasonable and then some. A lot of the misconceptions found here are because your reading comments by folks that don't have the units on their bench to use. While you guys discuss this topic I will go back to using my fine ANAN rigs.  The plain ANAN-100 is just as good using the same software and for $2k it is a bargain buy. But you really have to ask yourself do you really need this new capability for your ham work?  But if you want the cutting edge of communications equipment you can't go wrong with either a Flex or ANAN.  There will be those that  complain about both. While they are complaining ill be enjoying my ANAN with a heavier billfold.
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NI0Z
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« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2013, 07:58:04 PM »

Rob has an Anan and we will see test results in the future when he is done and decides to post them.

The Anan 100 Series and Flex 6K series SDRs won't top the charts.  You can calculate their near placing by their chip specs.  Somewhere around or slightly above the Flex 5K. Below the KX3.  Some people will consider this a massive success while others will see it as a massive failure.  I don't think either taking the extremes on the ranking will have it right.  It's too narrow a view of what either of the newer DDC SDRs can and can't do well.

I think the next 18 months will bring more software goodies as other than Xmit IMD improvements, (some TX improvements are on the way via software and hardware for the Anan's) the hardware simply is ahead of the software now on most SDR platforms.

Lol, maybe 6K users will visit the new website.  Who knows, perhaps nobody will visit or like it.  We will just have to see how it goes.  It's a very humbling undertaking.  If anyone wants to help there is plenty to do.  Just hit me offline.

There in the end are some really great offerings out there at various price points and features.  You have the FunCube Pro + at $200, Afedri at $250 that are pretty nice entry level offerings.  In some cases they may even outperform much more expensive SDRs.  You have the QS1R that at $900 looks to be a sweet deal.  It's more than and SDR as well. I hope to review one for the site launch along with the other two afore mentioned SDRs. 

In the middle price points you have SunSDR2, Zues and Anans.  We are talking DDC here now only so Flex fans, don't get upset, I still own my 5K and its a great SDR as well.

There are many other options as well I have not mentioned.  It's all mostly good and fun!

Anyways..  The ankle biting takes many shapes and forums and as long as we have so many choices there will be lots of brand battles.

Some owners out there are just struggling to get radios working and learning about SDRs while others are waiting on software to be finished before they put themselves out there in the brand debates.

Imagine how boring it would all be without competition and choice!

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M1BJR
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Posts: 13




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« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2013, 05:34:45 PM »

First lab report is out, many thanks to the FREE work of Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ, testing a rig loaned by Stefan, VE4NSA:

http://www.ab4oj.com/sdr/apache/anan100d_notes.pdf

Steve.
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W2PH
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« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2013, 07:17:37 AM »

So much comment about ANAN-100D and comparing it to $200 SDR "kits".  This SDR package is not a kit and while I agree Apache-Labs needs to get it into the mainstream, there are dozens of well done reviews that are available as side by side comparisons.  Having been an SDR user for several years there is simply no comparison in receiver performance especially when it comes to selectivity and variable filters.  Most SDR users would never go back to traditional radios once they have passed through the brief learning curve of any new rig.  The inconvenience of having a pc do the processing is minimal considering every shack has a pc doing logging or some other  ham-related function.  As for the "knob" argument, there are great options to completely control rigs like the Flex series, and the ANAN-100 series with various controllers (Hercules for example) that provide more buttons and knobs that even a ProIII and almost entirely eliminate the need for multiple nested menus so common in newer Japanese rigs.  Many SDR users are not experimenters or gadget guys, but serious users that appreciate the incredible filters present in true DDC radios.  The ability to see an entire band graphically or even the ability to see numerous receivers simultaneously will even make the most ardent contester or DXer smile. 
Ed W2PH
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2013, 07:30:59 AM »

while I agree Apache-Labs needs to get it into the mainstream,

Having been an SDR user for several years there is simply no comparison in receiver performance especially when it comes to selectivity and variable filters.

BALONEY. If SDR's were so much better than Knobbed radios all the Serious Contesters would be using them. They are not. The Contesters rig of choice is the K-3.

I personally had the opportunity to test a TS-590s against a SDR with highly touted "Brick Filters." I owned both for a while. At NO time did the SDR outperform the TS-590s. The SDR had a pretty Panafall and little else to be recommended.

The price goes up on the Anan radios in 4 days, they are increasing the ANAN 100/D up $500. This will probably kill the demand for Anans. Without a USA distributor few hams are going to opt for an experimental SDR that one has to buy from India. Anan''s will NEVER be mainstream until they are sold at AES/HRO at reasonable prices.

Stan K9IUQ
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M1BJR
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Posts: 13




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« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2013, 04:16:37 PM »

Having compared (and still doing so) my 590 with the Flex3000, my experience is the polar opposite.
And the Anan is in another league altogether and outperforms both in every aspect I can compare.

The 590 with its menu system is far from fluid, the K3 even less so. But there are worse out there to be fair.

There will always be prejudice where SDRs are concerned, and in my opinion it revolves largely around the operator breaking with decades of 'tradition'.

It's really no different an analogy to the digital camera replacing the film camera - the purists would never entertain it. Tried buying camera film lately?
But as the technology matured and market forces dominated we all know about the rest. Incidentally the same landslide is happening with industrial radiography.
There the resistance is far higher, the old boys  don't 'get it', most have no experience with it or don't trust its security, nor the sales guys behind it.
Ergo they are naturally wary - all quite understandable really.

And these old boys control the market, they still do. Just like the radio market.
But that is slowly changing as major players approve the technology, and realise the benefits outweigh the perceived drawbacks.
Ham radio and SDR I see as in a similar embryonic stage.

The majority of radio ops probably have little or no knowledge of the SDR technology, software, or its application.
The (more mature) majority having been reared on analogue circuits.
Go to any radio club and these are your majority 'elmers', hence a degree of stagnation of view.

Another thing to consider is the perception of being 'left behind' by emergent technology and feeling that those decades of hard-earned knowledge will devalue.
It's in many amateurs nature to stick with the known quantity, and the thought of going from being a technical expert in the analogue field into a new age probably rattles more than a few cages.

On the positive note, its stirring some healthy competition to develop both hardware and software for radio again, just like the kick that data modes gave the market decades ago.
It's bringing a new rank of experimenter, builder, even 'kit assembler' hams to the fore, and the software experts will have an open playground with the Open-Source code running beside or in  these new SDRs.

Something for everyone - it should not be a contest.
That is, after all, what Ham Radio spirit is about is it not?
Collaboration, experimentation, development, fun....

Steve M1BJR.

Only my thoughts of course, gleaned from many hours SW listening, and many more talking to the masses on HF.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 04:31:35 PM by M1BJR » Logged
M1BJR
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Posts: 13




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« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2013, 04:28:15 PM »

Without a USA distributor few hams are going to opt for an experimental SDR that one has to buy from India. Anan''s will NEVER be mainstream until they are sold at AES/HRO at reasonable prices.

Stan K9IUQ


Stan,
There is a global market outside of the USA.
I appreciate its quite a large market.
But its not THE market.

And how do you quantify 'reasonable prices'?

Steve
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2013, 04:47:37 PM »


There is a global market outside of the USA.
I appreciate its quite a large market.
But its not THE market.

And how do you quantify 'reasonable prices'?

The only market I am interested in is the one I live in, it is THE market for me..

IMO SDR's will never sell more than knobbed radios until they hit the $1-2K USA. This is the reasonable price range. I am talking HF 100 watt transceivers, not RX only SDR dongles. This is the sweet spot for hamradio. Anything higher is going to have a tough time appealing to the average ham.

I fully expect the Chinese to own the SDR market in 10 years. Look what they are doing to dualband HT's. When that happens even $1-2K will not be reasonable.

Stan K9IUQ
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2013, 04:50:51 PM »

Having compared (and still doing so) my 590 with the Flex3000, my experience is the polar opposite.
And the Anan is in another league altogether and outperforms both in every aspect I can compare.

This is the question to ponder: Can I work any DX station with a SDR that I can not work with the Kenwood?? Be honest. This is the criteria that Joe Ham or Joe Contester considers.
If the answer is Yes the Contest world would be filled with SDR's not K-3's.

Stan  K9IUQ
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 04:52:55 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
M1BJR
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« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2013, 05:25:08 PM »

If only it were that simple.

Perhaps if an SDR company is to donate many $$$ of radios to some expeditions then we may see some movement there.

I believe that at present it's simply an issue of 'familiarity' or mainstream ignorance, and not one of inherent 'inability' to do the task.

Digital cameras were totally inferior to film fifteen years ago and cost more than the traditional.
But within five years almost everyone had one instead of a film camera.
Market forces then dictate, the performance which was actually secondary THEN becomes the driving force due to economies of scale.

I'm not so sure that's entirely the case here, as SDR can already be at least the performance equal.

What is missing here is just the marketing guys.
And Flex-radio have only harmed the whole darned process IMO.

One wonders what the impact would be if a Japanese company released a high end SDR tomorrow.
As I would hazard a guess that that single market exceeds that of the USA.

But only time will tell. Its a fascinating debate isn't it?

Steve.
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K5TED
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« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2013, 08:51:58 PM »

Flex SDR's are easy to use. Your mileage may vary, based on your capacity.

What is the preferred race car for "Serious" race car drivers?

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NI0Z
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« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2013, 05:00:42 AM »

The SDR market is changing, your going to see more and more SDRs with knobs and displays which basically means they wil have the ability to operate faster and thus contest.

There are some cool pictures getting posted over in the zone of knobbed SDRs on the way.  More SDR Transceivers are coming as well.

We are about to hit what I call the golden age of SDR transceivers.  Even the addition of a Tmate 2 or a Hercules DJ panel on some of these SDRs will get you there.

Watch these next two years closely as you will start to see more appealing SDRs and then the beginning of a shift.

This will cause the more mainstream transceiver makers to start making traditional knobbed SDRs and we will then live in a world of software defined radios for the SW Listeners and Hams.

In 5 years we will be there by virtue of being able to look at the masses and the status of the migration/transformation.
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N9RO
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« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2013, 11:18:16 AM »

Mark,

I think the traditional knob SDR will prove to be far too limiting once the ham community gets a taste of the Radio Server architecture and all it has to offer.   I see the knob SDR as a hardware device (call it a mobile device if you like) something like the Elecraft Remote Rig getting content feed to it from both yours and a worldwide network of Radio Servers.  Knob look and feel but the tremendous power of a fully integrated high performance Radio Server network feeding content to it.   Once hams begin to comprehend the power this architecture offers the move to SDR mobile devices and Radio Servers will explode and this will begin the so called Game Change.
 
The million dollar question I have is, does the ham community have the skilled development resources willing to make the BIG investment needed for this? In addition, it will require vendor involvement.   The hardware is here and growing now worldwide!

Your new web site is great, just my current thought.

Tim,  N9RO
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Real techies don't use knobs.
NI0Z
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« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2013, 11:52:37 AM »

Hey Tim,

I don't disagree with the server comments, I have a new Article coming out on all this and with a deeper explanation why I think things will change.  I think we will see growth in both the headless SDR's and the headed ones! Smiley

In short you'll see the headed ones replace the knobbed traditional radios and the headless will be a possible place where those wanting more versatility will migrate towards.  It might even be to the extent that people wont really even have to know or care they are using SDRs. 

While I am not a contester one can not dismiss the amount of Hams wanting traditional knobbed radios for contesting.  What I think will be interesting is what will they do when contesters automate contesting and the number of DX's they process far exceeds what any reasonable ham can do on a normal radio, or even high-end radio.

Imagine a script just racking up QSOs.  It will take the fun out of it as there would be no real challenge.  Launch your script and watch!

I think they will have to change the rules a bit.

End the end, its all good and will work out! 
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