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Author Topic: Still No Ammo  (Read 15144 times)
W1JKA
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Posts: 1631




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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2013, 12:54:35 PM »

  Actually O'Drama Rama is a pretty slick dude,he not only can appease the anti gun faction with his rhetoric and attempts at anti gun legislation but at the same same time gives the economy a boost with increased gun/ammo sales and providing more jobs in the firearms industry,a win win situation for the guy.
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W8JX
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2013, 01:02:32 PM »

In my life I have never seen such a gun and ammo craze. Special interests (NRA which is really controlled by gun lobby) is fueling media and media is causing consumer panic and hording. The result is the kind of supply and demand than suppliers love.

No, I think it Pres. Obama and Sen. Feinstein and other liberal do-gooders wanting to limit what law abiding Americans can own is what is causing the ammo shortage and the increase in gun sales and increase in NRA membership.  Same thing happened when Brady was talked about before it was passed.

Rick wn2c

Not you can blame it on bush for not renewing assault weapons ban in 2004 and caving to industry. Obama merely wanted to renew that ban and I recall no problems getting non designer gun and ammo during that 10 year ban. It is shameful that kids were mowed down with a gun that Bush legalized in 2004 and would not of been built if ban had been renewed. How many more must die? The answer is not more guns or armed guards in schools. The battle is not about gun rights but rather about profit on  certain gun types.
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W1JKA
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2013, 01:27:09 PM »

   Does anybody wonder why homeowners will pay a $100.00 or more on home security devices or $500.00 or more on their automobile anti theft /security systems but balk at the possibility of having to pay an extra $15.00-20.00 a year real estate tax for extra school security for their children?A sad commentary on priorities.
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KK4APV
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2013, 02:59:55 PM »

Ammo is loaded and sold to: 

1- Government (1.5 BILLION rounds) No palatable explanation why 70,000 government agents require an average of 1,600 rounds of ammo a year)


I have a relative who is one of those government agents.  Since 9/11 there has been an emphasis on being well qualified with ones sidearm, so they shoot more.  These agents include the Air Marshals, DEA, ATF, etc., etc.  In addition they need ammo to perform their job.  We don't want them scrimping on ammo do we?  The media has made much ado about this.  Much ado about nothing in my opinion.

Why are they shooting hollow rounds? *THAT'S* what they're buying in such fantastic numbers, and that is *NOT* what they should be using for target practice.

Last I heard, DHS had enough hollow-point bullets to put three bullets in every man, woman and child in the US.

THAT is a reason to be very frightened of this government.

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N0JI
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2013, 04:06:51 PM »

Not you can blame it on bush for not renewing assault weapons ban in 2004 and caving to industry. Obama merely wanted to renew that ban and I recall no problems getting non designer gun and ammo during that 10 year ban. It is shameful that kids were mowed down with a gun that Bush legalized in 2004 and would not of been built if ban had been renewed. How many more must die? The answer is not more guns or armed guards in schools. The battle is not about gun rights but rather about profit on  certain gun types.

Congress would have needed to take action to renew the (ineffective, illogical) ban before Bush could have had anything to do with its demise.  And after gun owners made their voices heard in the 1996 elections, there wasn't much stomach for doing anything at all to extend the ban.  This is ALL about gun rights as the nearly universal consensus is that the first ban on cosmetic gun features and magazine capacity had no measurable effect on crime.  Blame bush for all the ills of the world if you like, but it is more healthy to live in the present.  I remember the parents of friends of mine in high school who had ulcers that they blamed on Nixon 20 years after he left office......  Shocked

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W1JKA
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2013, 05:27:00 PM »

Re: KK4APV
    "Why are they shooting hollow rounds?"  Hollow points will flatten on  impact so once the resulting sharp edge pancake like object penetrates the body cavity(man or beast)it will ricochet off bones and hard cartilage tearing through vital organs and arteries which is much more lethal than a solid bullet which may just lodge in muscle tissue or possibly stop inside or pass straight through without hitting a vital organ. You're right, solid rounds are for target practice thus the buy up and hoarding of hollow point ammo by all concerned parties.

 
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KE4DRN
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2013, 05:47:37 PM »

Nonsense,

Bush did not 'legalize' the AR15 in 2004, Colt introduced the civilian AR-15 in 1963.

Bush did not renew the 'assault rifle ban' because it had a sunset provision and Congress did not take action to renew it for Bush to sign or veto.

Criminals don't shop retail, they shop the black market, no questions asked, cash and carry,
this has zero impact on any gun show sales.

Those that want to ban the AR platform (Armalite Rifle, not 'assault rifle') have no idea that a common hunting rifle has
larger and more powerful cartridge.

FFL licensed dealers are required by law to use the NICS aka instant check for all sales, no exceptions unless they are
processing a transaction directly to another  FFL.

Yes I agree the loss of life should not have happened, however, the recent incident in Boston demonstrates that when somebody wants to attack and kill other citizens, they will find a way.

The two students who were responsible for the Columbine attacks used shotguns and constructed IED using propane tanks.
They violated many existing laws that law abiding citizens would never do.

74 james


Not you can blame it on bush for not renewing assault weapons ban in 2004 and caving to industry. Obama merely wanted to renew that ban and I recall no problems getting non designer gun and ammo during that 10 year ban. It is shameful that kids were mowed down with a gun that Bush legalized in 2004 and would not of been built if ban had been renewed. How many more must die? The answer is not more guns or armed guards in schools. The battle is not about gun rights but rather about profit on  certain gun types.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 05:51:06 PM by KE4DRN » Logged
WA2ASB
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Posts: 39




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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2013, 08:18:11 PM »

It isn't just the civilians, but the dealers as well.  I download inventory and prices from 5 distributors for a small low volume dealer who has to go through distributors because of not selling enough to be able to purchase directly from the manufacturers.  The dealers are grabbing anything they can get their hands on from the distributors.  Even the Talo guns, which are high end, are totally sold out.

We saw a little of this after Obama was elected in 2008, but nothing like now.  Of course we need stricter gun laws like they have in Chicago.  They don't have any crime there because of their strict laws.  Yeah right.  Go into any prison and ask the inmates; they are all for stricter gun laws.
.
However, I do take the blame for all of this: I was living in China when Obama was elected in 2008 and in India when he was elected in 2012.  I've got to stay in the country. Grin
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K8AXW
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2013, 08:21:24 PM »

YXB:  Yea, uh-huh..... there are approximately 70,000 armed government agents that require ammunition for practice and to carry.  

The 1.5 Billion rounds of HOLLOW POINT bullets the government is buying will give each agent 1,600 rounds a year to expend.  Something really stinks here.

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W8JX
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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2013, 08:30:14 PM »

Re: KK4APV
    "Why are they shooting hollow rounds?"  Hollow points will flatten on  impact so once the resulting sharp edge pancake like object penetrates the body cavity(man or beast)it will ricochet off bones and hard cartilage tearing through vital organs and arteries which is much more lethal than a solid bullet which may just lodge in muscle tissue or possibly stop inside or pass straight through without hitting a vital organ. You're right, solid rounds are for target practice thus the buy up and hoarding of hollow point ammo by all concerned parties.

The mere presence of a hollow point does not always equate to explosive expansion or damage. It depends a lot on cartridge and there is a lot of hype too.  In a pistol rounds like a 357 they have been consistent with having good expansion and penetration because of velocity and energy and proven stoppers. As far as a solid bullet, it is its shape that determine its effectiveness. Round nose bullets common to auto loader pistols by design have poor stopping power. When police started carrying 9mm they found out how ineffective it was at times compared to a 38 or 357 with wadcutters. On a heavy person or with heavy clothes a HP that that works in a auto may not reach vitals.  The most effective and consistent design is a hard cast semi-wadcutter (flat nose bullet) It provide good disruption and penetration. They beauty of such rounds is that they also accurate too. You should always practice with same type/load ammo in gun as you plan to shoot for most consistent accuracy. (I do as pistols can be sensitive to it)  Such flat nose bullets are not possible 380, 9mm, 40sw, 45acp or like because they would not feed so they try hollow points with varying results. For those that carry in bear country for defense are far better off with bear pepper spray than a glock with a full clip because the spray will  stop them (even a very big one) while the glock could just make matters worse. It may wound it enough to die later after it cleans your clock.      
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W8JX
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2013, 08:37:38 PM »

YXB:  Yea, uh-huh..... there are approximately 70,000 armed government agents that require ammunition for practice and to carry.  

The 1.5 Billion rounds of HOLLOW POINT bullets the government is buying will give each agent 1,600 rounds a year to expend.  Something really stinks here.



Mere drops in the bucket, it is panic buying that is causing problem not government needs. I was at store other day and over heard a couple of shooters say they had at least 1000 rounds each of 223/5.56mm put back and same with 9mm and wanting to double it.  When I talked to a worker at a Cabelas a while back he said he see a lot of same faces frequently buying ammo at limit then going through again or having wife buy too. This is why there is a shortage.
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KE4DRN
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« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2013, 09:30:01 PM »

The reason DHS ordered mass quantities of hollow point ammo is because
they are using our money that is why.

Waste to train with hollow point ammo unless it is for qualifications.

I wish our elected officials would focus on our economy instead of more gun control that
criminals will not obey.

Some of the hoarders are selling their ammo at a nice profit.

These days you have to purchase a new rifle based on the ammo available on the shelves.

73 james
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WA2ASB
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Posts: 39




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« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2013, 09:47:50 PM »

OK, I'm a gun guy and my cousin is a retired FBI agent.  If you shoot ball ammunition in your gun, you don't know if it will function properly with hollow-point.  In other words: you have to ensure your gun will always work with the ammo you are carrying.

Before he retired, my cousin had to qualify 4 times a year with the gun he carried.  This meant some practice time.  He had over 50,000 rounds through his Sig Sauer before the frame cracked.  He then went to a Glock (and I disowned him).

I was shooting at Bass Pro Shops a few years back, but after 9/11.  There were two "African-Americans" (i.e. black) men there shooting.  They were shooting H&K pistols that were chambered in 40 S&W.  They shot a lot of rounds and were incredible.  I'd never seen two people shoot that well.  Being a racist, ( Wink) I wondered if they were drug dealers from south Dallas.  I mentioned my remarks to the range officer when I left, and I was told: "they had better be good - they are air-marshals".  That made me feel a lot better the next time I flew.  Never judge a book by its covers, and as I've learned over the years: never assume you know what you are talking about.
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W8JX
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« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2013, 09:56:25 PM »

OK, I'm a gun guy and my cousin is a retired FBI agent.  If you shoot ball ammunition in your gun, you don't know if it will function properly with hollow-point.  In other words: you have to ensure your gun will always work with the ammo you are carrying.

I have ALWAYS preferred a revolver over a auto loader because the never jam/misfed and when that one in a million misfire happens there is no action to clear to fire again.
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WA2ASB
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« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 10:25:18 PM »

W8JX, I'm with you and I never leave home without my S&W 360 in 357 Magnum.  However, your assumption that they never jam I've found to not be true.  I bought a used S&W 686-1 from a local dealer who had several, but the trigger on this particular one was so smooth.  I loved it as long as I was shooting 38 SPCL.  With 357 Magum you could not get through a single cylinder without the revolver locking up.  It turned out that the 357 Magnum rim expands more than the 38 SPCL.  There was a tiny burr right next to the firing pin hole that would lock everything up with the 357.  That is probably why the person sold it.  A few licks with a stone and the gun was fine.

The only problem I have with the 360 is there might be a moments hesitation before pulling the trigger.  I know it is going to really hurt.  I'd rather shoot the S&W 500.  The 360 is so light that the recoil is just brutal.

Again, you are right that the semi-autos will jam.  However, I don't know of a revolver that will carry 17 rounds of 9mm.  Before you answer, you are right: only one shot well placed will do the trick.

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