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Author Topic: Flex-5000 Discontinued  (Read 15254 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 5477




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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2013, 06:01:54 AM »

Every rig and  every brand out there has it's share of complaints against it and has detractors. All have faults. I have yet to find a perfect radio and I doubt one exist nor will it ever exist.  You show your ignorance by claiming that any off the shelf case could be used. Changing cases would not only involve re engineering but most important of all, it would require a new round of testing for type acceptance which isn't cheap.  

Well Flex has more complaints than the big three combined. As far as ignorance there is nothing hi-tech about that case that it could not be easily dupped or subbed. Kenwood and Yaesu saw a massive loss of parts sources with Tsunami and many suppliers gone for good and you did not see them discontinue any rigs because of it.

Flex is trying to play with big boys and act like a high roller when they are far from it. They are real good at excuses and BS though. The had a lot a practice with 5000.
And you know they have more complaints how? Someone elect you to keep track of it? I have seen complaints left and right about certain Icom radios failing. I loved my Kenwood TS-2000X I once owned but the dang thing had a birdie right in the middle of a popular satellite downlink.  The Yaesu 450 I owned had issues with ergonomics like too small of a tuning knob etc. etc. I worked in the retail end of the ham radio business. I've seen complaints about every type of radio out there. And yes, you are being ignorant! If nothing else changing the case would involve paying a lab to do type acceptance test again because of RF shielding considerations and such. You seem to want to  ignore that part of the money equation. Those test aren't cheap by any means. The big three afford such things for small radio upgrades by separating people like you from thousands of dollars for mediocre radios with substandard RX's.  A 600 dollar Flex 1500 RX beats radios out there that cost a couple of thousand easy. I know, I've compared them. Get over yourself, the Japanese manufacturers are laughing at you all the way to the bank!
Michael, W4HIJ

A quick web search will find LOTS of complaints on Flex radios. Software and RFI. Likely most RFI prone rig out there. Flex's biggest mistake was being to department on a external computer of unknown standards and a weak link by design.
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1626




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« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2013, 08:44:09 AM »


A quick web search will find LOTS of complaints on Flex radios. Software and RFI. Likely most RFI prone rig out there. Flex's biggest mistake was being to department on a external computer of unknown standards and a weak link by design.

Flexradio has made many mistakes. None are acknowledged by the Flexers. They just ignore the complaints and say "hey my Flexradio is trouble free." Flexradio's biggest mistake is lying and not telling the truth. From cw problems to delivery dates on the 6700 they constantly do not tell the truth. Perhaps this rubs off on the True Believers who constantly try to defend Flexradio.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 08:47:20 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2013, 12:45:33 PM »

Every rig and  every brand out there has it's share of complaints against it and has detractors. All have faults. I have yet to find a perfect radio and I doubt one exist nor will it ever exist.  You show your ignorance by claiming that any off the shelf case could be used. Changing cases would not only involve re engineering but most important of all, it would require a new round of testing for type acceptance which isn't cheap.  

Well Flex has more complaints than the big three combined. As far as ignorance there is nothing hi-tech about that case that it could not be easily dupped or subbed. Kenwood and Yaesu saw a massive loss of parts sources with Tsunami and many suppliers gone for good and you did not see them discontinue any rigs because of it.

Flex is trying to play with big boys and act like a high roller when they are far from it. They are real good at excuses and BS though. The had a lot a practice with 5000.
And you know they have more complaints how? Someone elect you to keep track of it? I have seen complaints left and right about certain Icom radios failing. I loved my Kenwood TS-2000X I once owned but the dang thing had a birdie right in the middle of a popular satellite downlink.  The Yaesu 450 I owned had issues with ergonomics like too small of a tuning knob etc. etc. I worked in the retail end of the ham radio business. I've seen complaints about every type of radio out there. And yes, you are being ignorant! If nothing else changing the case would involve paying a lab to do type acceptance test again because of RF shielding considerations and such. You seem to want to  ignore that part of the money equation. Those test aren't cheap by any means. The big three afford such things for small radio upgrades by separating people like you from thousands of dollars for mediocre radios with substandard RX's.  A 600 dollar Flex 1500 RX beats radios out there that cost a couple of thousand easy. I know, I've compared them. Get over yourself, the Japanese manufacturers are laughing at you all the way to the bank!
Michael, W4HIJ

A quick web search will find LOTS of complaints on Flex radios. Software and RFI. Likely most RFI prone rig out there. Flex's biggest mistake was being to department on a external computer of unknown standards and a weak link by design.
A quick web search will find LOTS of complaints about ANY radio. When someone has a problem with something they are likely to complain about it. More often than not though, that's small minority of users and it stands out more because the majority of people without problems don't say much of anything. That's just human nature.
I've owned a 5K which I ran with a Kenwood TL-922A and I didn't have any RFI problems. My RFI problems were solved years ago when I ran that amp with a Kenwood TS-450. I won't say I didn't have some software and PC issues but by and large they were minor. There are certain little things I don't like about my 1500 but the strong points of it outweigh the bad.  When you find the perfect "one size fits all" rig then please let me and everyone else know about it OK?  Until then, why do you care that Flex discontinued the 5K? You hate them so bad anyway. People like myself who enjoyed them and then had to get rid of them for reasons other than performance are the ones who should care. I actually feel like it's a good thing though. The used market for them should flourish. That and competition from companies like Apache will help evolve SDR even further and we can finally get away from the overpriced pieces of crap the big three have saddled us with for years.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1472




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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2013, 01:43:55 PM »

^^^^^^^^

I found the perfect one size fits all rig.  It's called an Elecraft K3  Grin
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
K5TED
Member

Posts: 699




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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2013, 02:11:18 PM »

The comment, "Flex has more complaints than the big three combined", cannot be substantiated. Not only is it a logical fallacy, it's impossible, and pure hyperbole. One would have to catalog all the complaints ever made against all the radios ever made by Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu, and compare that number with the few thousand radios Flex has sold over the past 10 years.
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W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2013, 02:26:16 PM »

^^^^^^^^

I found the perfect one size fits all rig.  It's called an Elecraft K3  Grin
I'm happy for you that you enjoy your rig. My uncle has one that he enjoys as well. That being said, you can still do a web search and find complaints about the K3. Which is exactly my point to all who would bash Flex or bash any brand of rig for that matter. We all have likes and dislikes. I've owned several  Icom rigs but never kept a one longer than about six months. There's something about them I just don't care for and I suspect I'll never buy another. Still, I don't make it my life's mission to take to the airwaves and the internet and bash them and the people who enjoy them. Flex radio and the whole concept of SDR in general put the fun back in the hobby for me as it has for a lot of other people as well.  I still can't fathom why that bothers some folks so badly but it does.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1472




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2013, 02:53:23 PM »

^^^^^^^^

I found the perfect one size fits all rig.  It's called an Elecraft K3  Grin
I'm happy for you that you enjoy your rig. My uncle has one that he enjoys as well. That being said, you can still do a web search and find complaints about the K3. Which is exactly my point to all who would bash Flex or bash any brand of rig for that matter. We all have likes and dislikes. I've owned several  Icom rigs but never kept a one longer than about six months. There's something about them I just don't care for and I suspect I'll never buy another. Still, I don't make it my life's mission to take to the airwaves and the internet and bash them and the people who enjoy them. Flex radio and the whole concept of SDR in general put the fun back in the hobby for me as it has for a lot of other people as well.  I still can't fathom why that bothers some folks so badly but it does.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

It was kind of a joke. I do own one and am completely blow away with its performance.

However I have my complaints with it.

I did get to see a Flex 6000 series prototype at a hamfest last year... It was really cool. I am fairly sure SDTs are the future of radio.
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
SWL2002
Member

Posts: 227




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2013, 05:38:44 PM »

^^^^^^^^

I found the perfect one size fits all rig.  It's called an Elecraft K3  Grin
I'm happy for you that you enjoy your rig. My uncle has one that he enjoys as well. That being said, you can still do a web search and find complaints about the K3. Which is exactly my point to all who would bash Flex or bash any brand of rig for that matter. We all have likes and dislikes. I've owned several  Icom rigs but never kept a one longer than about six months. There's something about them I just don't care for and I suspect I'll never buy another. Still, I don't make it my life's mission to take to the airwaves and the internet and bash them and the people who enjoy them. Flex radio and the whole concept of SDR in general put the fun back in the hobby for me as it has for a lot of other people as well.  I still can't fathom why that bothers some folks so badly but it does.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

It was kind of a joke. I do own one and am completely blow away with its performance.

However I have my complaints with it.

I did get to see a Flex 6000 series prototype at a hamfest last year... It was really cool. I am fairly sure SDTs are the future of radio.

Its a common problem of Flex Radio Fans.  You say somthing even in jest about a Flex and they go on a long tirade about why you are wrong.
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 5477




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2013, 06:08:41 PM »

The comment, "Flex has more complaints than the big three combined", cannot be substantiated. Not only is it a logical fallacy, it's impossible, and pure hyperbole. One would have to catalog all the complaints ever made against all the radios ever made by Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu, and compare that number with the few thousand radios Flex has sold over the past 10 years.


Take all the problems/complaints on 5000 since it came out and use same time frame for other three. Flex would loose. Plus they never did get software for it right. We will see how they do on 6000 series. I looked them over at Hamvention and will reserve judgement on them at this time. (keeping a open mind)
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1472




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2013, 07:10:26 PM »

^^^^^^^^

I found the perfect one size fits all rig.  It's called an Elecraft K3  Grin
I'm happy for you that you enjoy your rig. My uncle has one that he enjoys as well. That being said, you can still do a web search and find complaints about the K3. Which is exactly my point to all who would bash Flex or bash any brand of rig for that matter. We all have likes and dislikes. I've owned several  Icom rigs but never kept a one longer than about six months. There's something about them I just don't care for and I suspect I'll never buy another. Still, I don't make it my life's mission to take to the airwaves and the internet and bash them and the people who enjoy them. Flex radio and the whole concept of SDR in general put the fun back in the hobby for me as it has for a lot of other people as well.  I still can't fathom why that bothers some folks so badly but it does.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ

It was kind of a joke. I do own one and am completely blow away with its performance.

However I have my complaints with it.

I did get to see a Flex 6000 series prototype at a hamfest last year... It was really cool. I am fairly sure SDTs are the future of radio.

Its a common problem of Flex Radio Fans.  You say somthing even in jest about a Flex and they go on a long tirade about why you are wrong.


Point taken. I love the idea of SDTs but, it would take one heck of a transceiver for me to part with my K3.

If things go well at work, I wouldn't mind getting a Flex 1500 just to get my feet wet. My dad has a Genesis and it is really cool, but not quite ready for prime time.

In 10 years though, I have a feeling that finding a new conventional transceiver is going to be a difficult proposition.  Ham radio is a hobby of both tradition AND cutting edge technology. And at the moment the cutting edge is really exciting. 
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
K5TED
Member

Posts: 699




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2013, 07:24:14 PM »

The comment, "Flex has more complaints than the big three combined", cannot be substantiated. Not only is it a logical fallacy, it's impossible, and pure hyperbole. One would have to catalog all the complaints ever made against all the radios ever made by Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu, and compare that number with the few thousand radios Flex has sold over the past 10 years.


Take all the problems/complaints on 5000 since it came out and use same time frame for other three. Flex would loose. Plus they never did get software for it right. We will see how they do on 6000 series. I looked them over at Hamvention and will reserve judgement on them at this time. (keeping a open mind)

Sure. Do that. We're waiting. Show us the data to back your assertion. Otherwise, it's all hyperbole.
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1472




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2013, 07:29:48 PM »

The comment, "Flex has more complaints than the big three combined", cannot be substantiated. Not only is it a logical fallacy, it's impossible, and pure hyperbole. One would have to catalog all the complaints ever made against all the radios ever made by Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu, and compare that number with the few thousand radios Flex has sold over the past 10 years.


Take all the problems/complaints on 5000 since it came out and use same time frame for other three. Flex would loose. Plus they never did get software for it right. We will see how they do on 6000 series. I looked them over at Hamvention and will reserve judgement on them at this time. (keeping a open mind)

Sure. Do that. We're waiting. Show us the data to back your assertion. Otherwise, it's all hyperbole.

Don't feed the troll. Proving and disproving negatives are exercises in futility.   

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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5477




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2013, 07:59:54 PM »

The comment, "Flex has more complaints than the big three combined", cannot be substantiated. Not only is it a logical fallacy, it's impossible, and pure hyperbole. One would have to catalog all the complaints ever made against all the radios ever made by Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu, and compare that number with the few thousand radios Flex has sold over the past 10 years.


Take all the problems/complaints on 5000 since it came out and use same time frame for other three. Flex would loose. Plus they never did get software for it right. We will see how they do on 6000 series. I looked them over at Hamvention and will reserve judgement on them at this time. (keeping a open mind)

Sure. Do that. We're waiting. Show us the data to back your assertion. Otherwise, it's all hyperbole.

Start with scanning Eham. The idea of a affordable and solid SDR rig is neat but problem is reality has not caught up with it in 5000. It basic design flaw was its dependence on a computer hows specs varied widely in application introducing unknown variables. Flex, you either love them or hate them.
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K5TED
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Posts: 699




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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2013, 08:47:13 PM »

eham is a trove of useful information, but the authoritative source for a balanced report on radio experiences when it comes to Flex, it is not. Most of the negative posts about Flex radios I've seen here are almost exclusively authored by the same few people, over and over, ad nauseum. I don't claim to have read them all, but that's my take on what I've seen. Mixed in there are some seriously valid negatives concerning hardware deficiencies, operational issues or support problems, just like with any other manufacturer with the exception of Elecraft, which, like Apple, we all know is perfect in every way and if it's not you just don't get it..

It's not the fault of Flex Radio that end users fail to equip themselves with the recommended PC hardware. There are clear standards published and I would venture to assert without anything to back my claim that the vast majority of Flex users have figured out what they need in the way of computer hardware, perhaps through trial and error, and are happily Flexing to their heart's content. I run into them almost every time I work HF.

That said, the nature of the beast, that is, a cutting edge, ever-developing technology that may require a willingness to embrace a slightly more advanced grasp of computer hardware, systems, and implementation of general electrical principles than some hams might care to master, is just asking to be the whipping boy, and so it has become.

I myself waited til Flex evolved from the 1000, the cable mess and external sound device, because I could see it would in all likelihood bring some level of RF interference grief, based on my own experiences with external signal processing devices, PC's and radio transmitters.

All along the way, I read the horror stories and scurrilous imprecations leveled against Flex by some seemingly very unhappy hams. At the same time, I read plenty of material written by hams who had mastered the Flex and integration into their own shacks, tackling each problem with a can-do attitude or, in some cases, certain resignation that a particular function was not going to work in the expected manner until further refinement in the software/firmware.

I truly feel for the unfortunate ones who cannot find the key to making the Flex perform in a suitable manner. I truly applaud those who figured out how to make it work to their satisfaction, in their own situation.

I'm not unhappy with my Flex experience. It serves me well for the sort of radio I do. Your mileage may vary.
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 5477




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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2013, 05:00:56 AM »

Well with the Flex radio 5000 some are taken in by the eye candy and implied performance. But, when you take off the rose colored glasses and down to the nuts and bolts of it it is was always a problem child. Many are in denial of this and furthermore then tend to put down or attack those that merely point out the obvious. It promise of performance which looked good on paper was limited by its basic hardware design and software limitations.
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