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Author Topic: Transceiver Suggestions  (Read 6494 times)
N3EON
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Posts: 21




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« on: June 01, 2013, 06:55:23 AM »

I am exploring transceiver options. I've used a Kenwood TS-570 for 13 years and it has performed well, but I am interested in a dependable, mid-level rig. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles.  I am not a contester, but am an avid dxer and rag chewer. Receiver sensitivity and power output stability are important elements for me in a new rig. I recently purchased an Alpha amp and experienced several faults which have been attributed to power spikes from the 570. While I have primarily used Kenwood transceivers, I am open to non-Kenwood rigs.  Any recommendations for a replacement transceiver would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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W1JKA
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2013, 07:18:18 AM »

If buying new ,several mid range rigs available and all have pros/cons depending on operation preferences but will do the job.Reviews of such are very helpful.My vote is a ICOM-7200.What ever intrest you be sure to try one out any way you can before laying down the cash.GL
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KC8Y
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2013, 03:40:29 PM »

Here I go AGAIN, my typing error Sad

I have the IC-7410 (model above the 7200); got because of my eyesight (the 7410's display is larger)...also had the ic-7200 for about 1-1/2 months. 

Both rigs have excellent receiving characteristics.  I operate OLIVIA, PSK31, RTTY & CW

Have fun with whichever new rig you get Smiley

Ken, KC8Y
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W8JX
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2013, 04:19:08 PM »

Why not a TS 590. it is a good upgrade over 570 (which I have owned for 14 years) You would be familiar with basic layout and operation and could quickly adapt to added features. Kenwood has its own sound of sorts and receiver audio (which has always been good) and changing brands will change sound some.
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N4NYY
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 04:31:58 PM »

Why not a TS 590. it is a good upgrade over 570 (which I have owned for 14 years) You would be familiar with basic layout and operation and could quickly adapt to added features. Kenwood has its own sound of sorts and receiver audio (which has always been good) and changing brands will change sound some.

 I would go with a TS-590 over Icom an day of the week. Icoms are horribly overpriced and overrated. Their receivers are not that good based on price.

The best receiver they make is the $11,000 IC-7800, which is not as good as TS-590 receiver and barely better than the Yaesu FT-950 which is no long available. Their 7410 dsiplay design dates back to the 1997.  

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 04:37:18 PM by N4NYY » Logged
KS2G
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Posts: 439




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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 04:39:14 PM »

I second the suggestion from 'JX...

Get the Kenwood TS-590S.

At first glance looks just like your '570.
But it's a FAR superior radio -- with probably the best receiver you can buy for the money.

I upgraded to a '590 from a '570D(G) and have been just tickled with the substantial improvement in selectivity (roofing filters and IF, rather than audio, DSP), the terrific DSP noise reduction and it's really quick automatic antenna tuner.

73,
Mel - KS2G


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N3DT
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 06:23:21 PM »

For the same price you can get a TS2000 and have UHF/VHF too.  For a casual operator it's fine, there are some birdies in the UHF bands, it's not perfect.  I can't complain too much about mine, it does what I need, I will say the buttons are a bit small, but HRD helps.  I was a Yaesu freak for years, but I have to say this 2000 is more stable, I love the adjustable BW DSP, no filters to buy.
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W8JX
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 09:01:46 PM »

For the same price you can get a TS2000 and have UHF/VHF too.  For a casual operator it's fine, there are some birdies in the UHF bands, it's not perfect.  I can't complain too much about mine, it does what I need, I will say the buttons are a bit small, but HRD helps.  I was a Yaesu freak for years, but I have to say this 2000 is more stable, I love the adjustable BW DSP, no filters to buy.

He would find it a 2000 a downgrade in HF performance. All "shack in a box" rigs make compromises and the 2000 is a very dated design.  There is a "rumor" that a 2000 replacement may be on the drawing board.
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WX7G
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2013, 12:57:50 AM »

The original poster's complaint about the TS-570 is RF power spiking. The TS-590 suffers the same problem and is a no-go.

http://www.radioaficion.com/HamNews/images/04-2011/Review_TS-590S_QST_May_2011-20110429154018.pdf


The IC-7410 does exhibit 6 dB RF power spiking in SSB mode according to VA7OJ. HRO price is $1780.

http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7410/7410notes.pdf


TS-2000 is not only an old design but is known for it's unusually poor receiver.


The Elecraft K3 runs a bit more money, $2100 the module kit form, but has a more solid receiver than the TS-590 or the IC-7410 and does not exhibit RF power spiking.

The Sherwood receiver test page can be used to compare the radios mentioned. Based on Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced the radios are:

K3          101 dB
TS-590     88 dB
IC-7410    78 dB
TS-570D   68 dB  
TS-2000   57 dB

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html   and     http://www.sherweng.com/Dayton_2004/Dayton_2004-Sherwood.pdf

I have owned both the TS-570 and the K3 and there is simply no comparison between the receivers. The TS-570 is absolutely horrible for 160 meter CW contesting while the K3 is ideal.



« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 01:21:09 AM by WX7G » Logged
M6GOM
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Posts: 1012




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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2013, 01:37:16 AM »

The original poster's complaint about the TS-570 is RF power spiking. The TS-590 suffers the same problem and is a no-go.


And so do pretty much most radios on the market to some extent or another.

The power spike problem on the TS590 can be mitigated in one of two ways:

1) Go into the service menu, go to the ALC Reference (I think its menu 23) and LOWER it to around 113 so the ALC is active all the time

2) Use an external ALC either from an amplifier or as one person did, homebrewed using a battery and a variable resistor.


Quote
The TS-570 is absolutely horrible for 160 meter CW contesting while the K3 is ideal.

And the K3 is absolutely horrible for SSB whilst the TS590 is ideal.
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W8JX
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 02:22:31 AM »


Quote
The TS-570 is absolutely horrible for 160 meter CW contesting while the K3 is ideal.

And the K3 is absolutely horrible for SSB whilst the TS590 is ideal.


I also often wondered how many complained about 570s CW performance actually installed option filtering too. While no K3 with optional filter and  preamp turned off on lower bands the 570 does a decent job of it. There have even been times wen I used 20db att too.
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WX7G
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 04:14:55 AM »

That's good that the TS-590 power spike can be tamed. I have heard that the K3 isn't great on SSB transmit. I never ordered the microphone and so have not tried SSB with it.

On my TS-570 I had the 200 Hz CW filter but with the wide roofing filter nearby signals made a mess of 160 meter CW during the contests. The TS-590 doesn't have the close-in dynamic range of the K3, especially on 20 meters and above, has a better receiver than most radios.

I presently own a Kenwood TS-480 (for the car) and an Elecraft KX3 for QRP at home. I worked two CW contests from the car and the limited close-in dynamic range of the TS-480 was apparent. This winter I'll see how the KX3 does in the 160 meter contests but it should do well having better close-in dynamic range than the K3.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 04:23:13 AM by WX7G » Logged
N4NYY
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Posts: 4820




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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 06:31:51 AM »


The Sherwood receiver test page can be used to compare the radios mentioned. Based on Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced the radios are:

K3          101 dB
TS-590     88 dB
IC-7410    78 dB
TS-570D   68 dB  
TS-2000   57 dB


The other thing is that the TS-590 uses up conversion on the WARC bands, which clearly suffers from diminished receiver performance to the tune of 76 dB. That is compared to 88 dB on the normal bands. I know that TS-590 owners poo poo that, but it is a fact and in black and white.

Saying that, I would still buy the TS-590 over any Icom. It is still a superior rig.

W8JX reported that the TS-2000 is rumored to be going away. That is very true. The price was drastically lowered to eliminate inventory. The price is lower than the TS-590. And as mentioned, it very old design, currently 12 years old. Another sign that you are seeing the last of it.

As far as sales, the it is no contest. The TS-590 smokes the TS-2000. The TS-2000 hardly sells at all. The FTDX-3000 seems to be the next best seller after the TS-590.

And thanks to WX7G for the TS-2000 Sherwood stat. I had no idea it was that far down on the list.


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W8JX
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 11:18:24 AM »

On my TS-570 I had the 200 Hz CW filter but with the wide roofing filter nearby signals made a mess of 160 meter CW during the contests. The TS-590 doesn't have the close-in dynamic range of the K3, especially on 20 meters and above, has a better receiver than most radios.

The term roofing filter is not the same when when applied to a analog rig vs DSP. Also the 570 and 590 both do better in dynamic range with preamp off. When I work 20 and below I rarely use preamp anyway and never on 80 or 160 as it merely amplifies background noise too. Also I will even use ATT too when signals are strong because they do not need be 20 over 9 or better to hear clearly. This also helps front end sort things out too.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
WH7DX
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2013, 12:34:38 PM »

Why not a TS 590. it is a good upgrade over 570 (which I have owned for 14 years) You would be familiar with basic layout and operation and could quickly adapt to added features. Kenwood has its own sound of sorts and receiver audio (which has always been good) and changing brands will change sound some.

I second that.....
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