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Author Topic: Rant  (Read 52519 times)
W6UV
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Posts: 538




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« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2013, 09:45:38 AM »

I understand there are other things to life, or that we sometime have to move in a short period of time.

But you willingly made the agreement !

73 - Bill KA8VIT

Yep, willingly. If I do not sign off off on the restrictions then you will not sell to me. Perhaps grocers should not sell to buyers without buyers acceptance of restrictions on how the products are prepared and used?

Then go to a grocer that doesn't have those restrictions. Let the market decide.

Same with housing. If you don't like the restrictions, don't sign. Go find a place without restrictions. They are out there -- it just takes more effort to find them, even in an area that is seemingly all HOA-controlled.

The plain truth is that most people like CC&Rs because it sets minimum standards for a neighborhood and prevents your redneck neighbor from restoring his '68 Charger up on blocks on his front lawn or running a commercial pit bull breeding kennel in his backyard. The vast majority of homeowners are not hams (0.22%), so they couldn't care less about antenna restrictions because they don't affect them, and in fact they probably approve of them because they consider antennas unsightly. It's for this very reason that the FCC and congress are not going to do anything about antenna restrictions in CCRs -- they're going to cater to the 99.78% of the public who are not hams.
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G3RZP
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« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2013, 09:49:28 AM »

My first house had a covenant against antennas, but apparently in UK law, only the person or corporation putting the covenant in place can enforce it. The estate was finished shortly after I moved in, the builder who had put the covenant in place wasn't interested any more - no more houses to sell there! - so I put a 25 foot pole up at the end of the garden in full view of everyone.

Ran a doublet quite happily, and had a 5 ele 2m beam up on the side of the house.

Five years later when we came to sell, it turned out the buyer was ham, so he bought the antennas. Some neighbours walking by saw the For Sale sign and asked if we'd sell the antennas - we had four households of hams within 200 feet of my house. They were all VHF types, though.....This house has no restrictions other than planning (zoning, I guess in US terms)

Provided you can find an excuse to put up a TV antenna for Ch 2, you can gamma match the boom successfully, and work 10, 12, 15 or maybe even 17 metres by suitable tuning. N4KG suggested that to me for using a 5 ele 20m beam on 40 some 30 years ago...
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W6UV
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« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2013, 10:35:25 AM »

My first house had a covenant against antennas, but apparently in UK law, only the person or corporation putting the covenant in place can enforce it. The estate was finished shortly after I moved in, the builder who had put the covenant in place wasn't interested any more - no more houses to sell there! - so I put a 25 foot pole up at the end of the garden in full view of everyone

In many US jurisdictions, covenants can be enforced by anyone subject to them. For example, if you live in a neighborhood subject to CC&Rs that prohibit antennas, but without a homeowner's association, and you put up an antenna in contradiction to the CC&Rs, then any of your neighbors can sue you to enforce the restriction.

In this case, you can try putting up an antenna and take your changes. You may be okay if no one cares enough to take you to court. Any place that has an HOA is much more likely to enforce the restrictions. They often have nosy busybodies on the board who have made it their mission in life to enforce the rules to the letter.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 10:38:57 AM by W6UV » Logged
K0JEG
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« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2013, 03:01:16 PM »

As I said, the point of the rant wasn't to start yet another debate as to how important ham radio should be in a buying decision, but to point out that nearly everyone has some annoying hobby or eccentricity, but most covenant agreements don't specifically single them out.

A few weeks ago I put up a weather station, about 15' feet off the ground, in the back, hidden by the house and trees. I put it up as a test to see if there would be any pushback, and so far I haven't had any. So last week I went ahead and put up my Hygain AV-18AVQ that I picked up at a recent hamfest. It's painted black and green and blends in very well. It cannot be seen from the front of the house at all, and from the other side of the green space it is noticeable, but does not stand out (it might in the winter though). If I need to I can move it over a few feet and it will be nearly covered by a bush and low tree (which will become the support for a long wire if I have to take this one down, but it's only about 25' tall).

So far it's about the best HF antenna I've ever had up, at least for receiving. And the noise floor in this area is extremely low despite a high voltage transmission line nearby. We'll see over the next few weeks if someone says anything, but given some of the really bad dish installations around here (what is it about installers anyway?), I think I can make a good case for acceptance.

Yesterday I spent the day doing a dry run of our club's field day setup at one of the club members' homes. This is a high end gated community with severe restrictions on antennas, yet he has several well performing HF antennas all over his property (it helps he has a lot of trees and likely has a good lawyer, I'm sure). The fact that he uses a lot of painted surfaces and black wires helps hide them too.
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K8LEA
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« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2013, 12:51:17 AM »

Millenia ago (well, 1972), I moved into an apartment complex, and asked about antennas.

WHAT?!

Couldn't get that past management.  (I can't recall what was in the lease.)  All I needed was something on 2M for repeaters, so I ended up with a Ringo in the living room!  I probably could have put it out on the balcony, but that worked.  My fiance didn't appreciate that at all, but by the time we bought our first house, it was located so well v.s. the repeaters I wanted to hit that it didn't matter.  Next place ended up with a Ringo on the roof.  The second house had covenants against certain home-based businesses (like the pit bull breeding center  Grin ), but nothing special about antennas.

The joke being the first apartment.  At some point I happened to notice that somebody put up a 40' tower with a huge CB antenna on it.  He'd put it about 40' away from the apartment building, almost into some trees just outside the property line.  Line losses had to be hilarious, but it was impressive.  Never did find out how that happened.  I did find out where the pet restriction went - one of the owner's buddies moved in with a dog, and poof, we had dogs everwhere.  No problems with them, though, that I noticed, including a couple in my building.  (Little something or other across the hall would announce when folks down the block had visitors, but I got used to that.)

A buddy of mine (not a ham, and no dogs, but he did have a couple of cats) managed to get himself onto the HOA board, out of self-defense.  He had visions of somebody freaking out about the cats, or his Nissan "Z".  I haven't got the patience for that sort of thing....

Now, if you want to have some fun, try asking the HOA for permission to put in a firing range....

(The wife and I moved in to help take care of my mom in 2009.  She then decided to Winter in El Paso, and never bothered to come back.  I had a full-sized 160m dipole here before I moved out, and all kinds of trees.  The tower fell down, though, about 1980 - mom noticed that the tower base was an inch or two below the ground surface, filled it with peat moss & such, and some flowers.  Worked fine until the tower base rusted.  So, I have to put something up - the current antenna's about 20' high.  Meantime, I've got room for a nice 50 yard range, but the back yard slopes downward into a park, and neither the Park Department nor my neighbors would like the berm I'd have to put back there Cheesy....)

'Course, where you get the ARRL involved is when you suddenly find that the HOA wants a new restriction, and won't grandfather your 100' tower....

Regards,

Stu K8LEA
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K2GWK
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« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2013, 11:02:07 AM »

You must not have kids or a family because when we purchased our houses the first thing I considered was if the neighbor was good for my family, was it safe, did it suit the kids and would my wife be happy. As much as I love it Ham Radio is only a hobby. My family's needs are first and foremost and if that meant moving into a neighbor with CCR's so be it.

You seem to think that "CC&Rs" and "good, safe neighborhood" are synonymous. That's nonsense. I've seen plenty of neighborhoods that didn't have CC&Rs that were safe, with good neighbors, and in good school districts. I've also seen neighborhoods that did have CC&Rs that were home to druggies, hoodlums, and were in crappy school districts.

Good neighborhoods without antenna restrictions are out there, but you have to search them out -- the lazy approach doesn't work.

I don't know where you live but I have none of those problems in my subdivision. Duh....that's why I chose to move here. It is more important for me to have my family safe and happy than my amateur radio hobby. There are ways for me to get a signal out stealthily without a tower.

Even if I were permitted to have a tower I am not so sure I would put one up as I am happy with my setup the way things are. I don't begrudge anyone wanting a tower but if you can't you can't. Just get creative. When buying our home antennas were the last priority on my list but then again it was my choice and I don't bitch about it either.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 11:04:16 AM by K2GWK » Logged

K7CB
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Posts: 81




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« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2013, 10:10:04 AM »

What I don't understand is, why a ham, would buy a place where they know they have CCRs, sign an agreement, and then get upset when they can't put up an antenna ?

73 - Bill KA8VIT


My question is - why should a HAM be forced to buy an old home that may or may not need work or buy something in the sticks increasing their commute time so he or she can enjoy their hobby?  I understand that these covenants are agreed to...but are they really?  Seems to me that more and more they're becoming forced upon you.  The house we bought has covenants banning antennas dating back to 1978 when the house was built.  I'm fortunate though - there has never been an HOA and the homes have changed hands so many times over the years that most people don't even know the covenants even exist as almost all of them are being violated.  I've had my VHF/UHF antenna and OCF dipole up at 40' for over 6 months and haven't heard a peep out of anyone.  So now it's time to work on putting the 40' tower up with the two element SteppIR Yagi.
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AC7DX
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« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2013, 01:38:51 PM »

    
RE: Rant
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 04:47:40 AM »
   
What I don't understand is, why a ham, would buy a place where they know they have CCRs, sign an agreement, and then get upset when they can't put up an antenna ?

73 - Bill KA8VIT
They just like to bitch and moan like some of the no coders did.
You would think they would know the rules before they move in...Dah!
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W5LZ
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Posts: 477




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« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2013, 11:52:42 PM »

Quick and dirty answer... buy out the HOA.  Not all the property, just the HOA, assume control of it.  Make the rules you want to see.  Someone doesn't likeit?  Oh well, tell them they need to conform or else.  Same thing that's being to you isn't it?  Offer an 'exception' for the 'right' amount.  About the same thing as selling a 'permit', isn't it?  Control the 'game'!
 - Paul

Also, don't hold your breath...
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AC7DX
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« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2013, 10:53:35 AM »

Quick and dirty answer... buy out the HOA.  Not all the property, just the HOA, assume control of it.  Make the rules you want to see.  Someone doesn't likeit?  Oh well, tell them they need to conform or else.  Same thing that's being to you isn't it?  Offer an 'exception' for the 'right' amount.  About the same thing as selling a 'permit', isn't it?  Control the 'game'!
 - Paul

Also, don't hold your breath...


Better idea...dont move into one and then cry and moan and bitch. Buy somewhere else. Angry
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AD5TD
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Posts: 113




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« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2013, 06:23:41 PM »

I know you don't like it, but....

You bought it. 

Do some sneaky antenna or move.   It's just that simple.
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N3JBH
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« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2013, 05:22:32 PM »

I don't think my Harley is loud any more Huh But then that might be why i am loosing my hearing too  Roll Eyes
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W7KKK
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Posts: 374




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« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2013, 09:55:50 AM »

I bet your CC&Rs don't prohibit mobile antennas. Some hams mount a screwdriver antenna on the car, park it in the driveway, and run the coax and control cable into the house. I have used a similar setup and it can work well on 40-10 meters.

When my HOA questioned my application for a 33' vertical at ground level in my backyard I sent the guy that had approval authority a pix of a very tall vertical that somebody had mounted to the trailer hitch on his truck.
I told him that if they wanted to disapprove my 40 meter vertical I would proceed with the mobile application and that there was little they could do about that.
I got immediate approval for my vertical.
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N4UE
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Posts: 292




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« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2013, 07:19:48 AM »

You can get a signed statement from the Realtor there are NO antenna restrictions, NO HOA, etc. I did.
I had a valid permit from the County Building Inspector giving me permission to erect all the towers I wanted.

I put up 2. My (rich) neighbors got together and sued me because they considered it an 'eyesore'.
I spent a LOT of $ on a Lawyer, won in court, but it was a moral victory only.
These 'neighbors' hated my wife and I SO much, we started getting death threats, she couldn't go outside to work in her flowers, you name it.
She wasn't willing to fight back and moved away. We had to sell the house at a huge (!!!) loss.

So, just because you think you are OK with regulations, just remember :
Anyone can sue Anyone for ANYTHING. If your opposition has more $ than you do, you lose.
Don't even ask about a countersuit, it just would have made a bad situation REALLY bad!

ron
N4UE
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W7KKK
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« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2013, 07:55:27 AM »

While death threats?  I would have thought that it would be easy enough to set them up to have the county or city file charges against them?
When I put up my tower and being in Southeast Arizona the only county regulations were that if it were to fall it had to fall on my property.  I had acreage of time and that was not a problem.
The only problem I had was with the neighbor who crossed the fence into my property as I raised the tower with the beam in place and told me that it was ugly and that he does like looking at it.
I told him to haul his butt back on the other side of his fence and stay there and to not look in the direction of my beam if he did not like what it looked like.  I will also point out that this the same clown that came over to my property when I was assembling some aluminum tubing for another antenna project when if I first moved there and he started stumbling all over it damaging my tubing.  I educated his butt by telling him I was going to reorder the pieces he just bent and that he was going to pay for it or else, and he did.
As anyone can file a lawsuit but it's my understanding you can turn around and sue them in many states when you prevail for filing a frivolous lawsuit can recover.
Sometimes with neighbors it's important that you establish the pecking order in the neighborhood. Wink
When we moved into this HOA I applied for and received permission for my 33 foot vertical and I know for a fact after I erected it that the homeowners association received some complaints from neighbors but they defended my right to have the antenna as they have approved it and nothing more has been said to my knowledge.
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