Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: QSL Card Checking / Awards... Confusing??  (Read 5595 times)
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« on: June 11, 2013, 06:36:58 PM »

This stuff is either confusing or I'm slow....   I also couldn't find the proper information on the Internet.

I recently achieved Mixed DXCC and Mixed WAS.   I use LOTW and I have about 170 QSLs with Cards (never had any cards checked).

I just applied for my 75 DXCC LOTW credits to be moved to Awarded.   paid.. OK.. done and they're moved.

I just applied for my 40 WAS States to be Awarded and I entered the 10 QSL card call signs for the Missing States - printed that out for my local card checker..  paid.. OK.. waiting on 40 Awarded now.

Then I found the ARRL Was application form and I need to fill that out.. but it has Payment Information and says I need to include the Record Sheet and it has all 50 States.. so I need to find out if I can ignore that page (and use the one printed from LOTW submission with 10 States), enter just the 10 WAS States or enter everything.

Now I need to find 25 more DXCC QSL Card credits and import that into DXCC Online and have that checked with the local card checker at the same time.

If I use DX Keeper for a QSL DXCC Submission - it will come up with about 76 QSLs.   I can import that into DXCC Online and it will stay at 76 QSLs I believe.

If I ask DX Keeper for all QSL CARDs received myself I get 166.   If I import that into DXCC Online it allows 96 (only the DX and I didn't eliminate LOTW or anything else prior).   (This isn't a DXLab issue - it's the whole process - Dave has been great with advice)

It seems to me that DXCC Online should be changed to QSL Card Online, or something new created that will allow you to import ALL of your QSL Card Log Data.   Why limit it to DXCC?   

I'd like to record more of my QSL Card confirmations online and view them like LOTW without applying for an award?    I don't even now if that's possible or if I'd just make my own spread sheet - sorted in the proper format or if one exists?   

It seems like LOTW and all the QSL Card Data should be integrated.   Now I need to check everything to see what's credited and do it all over for each specific award.

It seems like it's a little spread out.   

I think I just gave myself a headache...
Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 01:19:42 AM »

It sounds like RSGBIOTA.org has an online database within the site where you can enter QSL Cards and then press a button to submit a list for visual checking and then that database of cards will be approved to the master..  I just registered so I'll find out if I understood that correctly.

I'm thinking that ARRL should do something similar.   They don't want people to send in a list of 50 QSL Cards, and then have the cards confirmed and then need to have their staff enter that list into LOTW if I have that correct.     I have 100 QSLs from Cards for all types of bands that I would like submitted electronically and shown on LOTW as awarded.  At that point I know I'm done with those cards - file them away.

DXCC Online is only DX QSL Cards.   It seems like they should have done everything together and kill two birds with one stone.   The DX QSL Cards confirmed would be pulled out of your master QSL Card Online Database.   Same with your WAS and Multi-WAS etc..

I tried searching for this stuff but it appears that ARRL wants you to enter QSL card info on paper for non-DXCC awards.  I don't understand why they got specific with DXCC Online?

If I was able to export all my QSL cards info into DXCC and have them approved it would be easier.  Or I could create a new record for just 40M QSL cards and export it into QSL Card Online (old DXCC Online) and have those approved and they just stick that in LOTW without ARRL entering anything by hand?  

They should also have a blank form available to print for those not using logging software and want to write it but RECOMMEND creating a PDF Form that they can enter their card data online and store for submission later, and print for a card checker.

Am I missing something?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 01:21:49 AM by WH7DX » Logged
K2QB
Member

Posts: 105




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 06:25:33 AM »

I'm not sure I really undertstand what you're asking. First LOTW submission and confirmation is only for electronic confirmation of QSO's. Only QSO's that are confirmed by both parties and match up in LOTW can be used towards submitting for DXCC, WAS or individual mode or band awards. Actual QSL cards that you have in your posession must be submitted via a paper form and checked either by a field checker or submitted to the ARRL. These can be added to any of your totals by using the correct submission form and applying towards whatever you want it to count for.
You can always request a print out or download off the LOTW site a complete list of what has been credited towards any award. This report will show what was credited via LOTW or via an actual QSL card.
Your logging program should also be able to provide you with the same information as well as any cards or LOTW submissions waiting for approval if you have submitted them.
Logged
AC4RD
Member

Posts: 1235




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 09:23:42 AM »

Actual QSL cards that you have in your posession must be submitted via a paper form and checked either by a field checker or submitted to the ARRL. These can be added to any of your totals by using the correct submission form and applying towards whatever you want it to count for.

And we know it CAN'T be hard, because I managed to do it recently without any bother. Wink  Did the online submission, printed the form and gave it and my cards to my friendly local checker (Thanks again, K4CIA!), and added around 50 entities I only had on paper, to my DXCC count.  It went great!
Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 10:32:24 AM »

I'm not sure I really undertstand what you're asking. First LOTW submission and confirmation is only for electronic confirmation of QSO's. Only QSO's that are confirmed by both parties and match up in LOTW can be used towards submitting for DXCC, WAS or individual mode or band awards. Actual QSL cards that you have in your posession must be submitted via a paper form and checked either by a field checker or submitted to the ARRL. These can be added to any of your totals by using the correct submission form and applying towards whatever you want it to count for.
You can always request a print out or download off the LOTW site a complete list of what has been credited towards any award. This report will show what was credited via LOTW or via an actual QSL card.
Your logging program should also be able to provide you with the same information as well as any cards or LOTW submissions waiting for approval if you have submitted them.


I'm referring to the whole process.   LOTW by itself works great.   Why ARRL decided to go with DXCC Online and work with only DX QSL Cards I have no Idea?

Why would ARRL want people to submit paper QSL logs for all the non DX QSL Cards.

I'm under the impression that approved QSL Cards will be added to LOTW.   I hope that's correct otherwise LOTW is kinda useless for where you really stand with DXCC and WAS.

Why not just create ARRL QSL Card Online and have the forms there to enter online for card checking and submitting electronically OR written for those who are paper oriented.   It would save ARRL and Hams a lot of hassle and errors - like handwriting.

Where is the form for submitting the 150 QSL Cards I have for Multi-Band WAS Progress?   Everything mentions how to sort it for a card checker..  Am I supposed to do this in an Excel file?  Perhaps export from Log and Sort in Excel?  Write it all by hand?   

I appreciated ARRL and all they do.  I'm a member, buy shirts, books etc..   I'm just wondering why this system isn't more integrated and complete and why DX Only for Online Card Checking?

Look at eQSL.   If they had the same security as LOTW and had the Card Checkers.. they could have a section where you download all the QSL Card contacts you want approved and it would sort it for you automatically and then you'd print it out and take it to get Card Checked.  That form would then be sent into eQSL and that list of QSL Cards would be approved and merged in with all the other Achieved Files and included in the Awards.   That list could be available right online for a card checker and they could verify and enter their ID and Password - done.

Simple.

LOTW came out nearly 10 years ago.
Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 11:04:40 AM »

ARRL QSL Cards Online should charge around $0.05 per card and the award price itself can be whatever is appropriate.  

You should be able to export from log, import into QSL Cards Online and that list will be saved until approved.

You could import QSL Cards of all types for approval.   200 QSLs would cost $10.00.

It would be electronic so less work for all involved.   Those who don't want to enter online with PDF file or similar would be charged $0.10 per QSL Card.

Once approved it would be transferred to LOTW as Awarded.

It's nice to see ARRL and CQ working together, as they should.

Getting the County Awards on this type of system would be SO MUCH easier.   How do you confirm a couple thousand Counties.   They are using eQSL so that helps and they state the savings on work, time, money etc.

(But even eQSL isn't using a QSL Card Import Feature for Printing QSL Log Data and Verification)

You can eQSL or this....   

D. Administration of USA-CA Program

1. The USA-CA program is administered by a CQ staff member acting as USA-CA Custodian, and all applications and related correspondence should be sent directly to this person's QTH.

2. Decisions of the Custodian in administering these rules and their interpretation, including future amendments, are final.

E. Record Book and Bookkeeping

1. The scope of the USA-CA Award makes it mandatory that special Record Books be used for application. For this purpose, CQ has provided a 64-page 4 1/4" x 11" Record Book which contains application and certification forms and provides record-log space meeting the conditions of any class award and/or endorsement requested.

2. A completed USA-CA Record Book constitutes the medium of basic application and becomes the property of CQ for record purposes. On subsequent applications for either higher classes or for special endorsements, the applicant may use additional Record Books to list required data, or he or she may make up alphabetical lists conforming to requirements.

3. Record Books are to be obtained directly from CQ, 25 Newbridge Rd., Hicksville, NY 11801, for $2.50 each, plus shipping and handling. Shipping and handling charges are as follows: books mailing to a USA address=$2 for 1 book; $3 for two; books mailing to all other countries= =$4 for 1 book; $7 for two. We recommend that two be obtained - one for application use and one for a personal file copy.

F. Application

1. Make Record Book entries necessary for county identity and enter other log data necessary to satisfy any special endorsements (band/mode) requested.

2. Have the certification form provided signed by two licensed amateurs (General Class or higher) or an official of a national-level radio organization or affiliated club verifying that QSL cards for all contacts as listed have been seen. The USA-CA Custodian reserves the right to request any specific cards to satisfy any doubt whatsoever. In such cases the applicant should send sufficient postage for the return of cards by registered mail.

3. Send the original completed Record Book (not a copy) and certification forms and handling fee. Fee for CQ subscribers is $6.00 or 7 IRCs (subscribers must include a recent CQ mailing label), and for non-subscribers it is $12.00 or 14 IRCs. Send to Ted Melinosky, K1BV, 12 Wells Woods Road, Columbia, CT 06237-1525. For later applications for higher class seals, send Record Book or self-prepared list per rules and $1.25 or 6 IRCs handling charge. For application for later special endorsements (band/mode) where certificates must be returned for endorsement, send certificate and $1.25 or 2 IRCs for handling charges. Note: At the time any USA-CA Award certificate is being processed, there are no charges other than the basic fee, regardless of the number of endorsements or seals; likewise, one may skip lower classes of USA-CA and get higher classes without losing any lower awards credits or paying any fee for them. Also note: IRCs are not accepted from U.S. stations.

4. Alternatively, you may sent the certification and witness documents together with a computer-prepared listing in database form. The list must be on paper, not diskette, and must include the same information as contained in the record book, in alphabetical order by state, and by county within each state.

The USA-CA Award Program is sponsored by CQ - The Radio Amateur's Journal, 25 Newbridge Rd., Hicksville, New York 11801 USA<
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 11:47:55 AM by WH7DX » Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 01:46:36 PM »

I put all my DX Keeper DXCC QSL Card Submissions back to "Y" from "S".   I had 166 before - all but the 160M.   I wanted to confirm all the QSL Cards.

I manually deleted the 96 that DXCC Online accepted on import - ONE BY ONE.. no delete ALL button.

I redid the DX Keeper submission and it came up with 76.  I exported and imported to DXCC Online - it took all 76.. they were correct DX.

I completed the DXCC Online Application, paid my approx. $25 and printed everything out.

It did NOT sort my QSL report and just said to match QSL Cards.   That was interesting.   

When you use the Print PDF (example) it sorts it.   I wasn't expecting that.

Now off to local Card Checker with DXCC and WAS forms/Cards.   I need to call and find out if I need to still put all 50 State QSL cards on WAS Form of just the 10 missing from LOTW that I recently paid and asked to be awarded.... (I entered those 10 calls signs for the 10 missing States in the LOTW application.)





Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 03:40:27 PM »

Back in the Middle of April I decided to get the WAC Award.  I haven't heard anything yet.  Unfortunately, I could use a couple of those cards for my DXCC application now.   They're on my list but I don't should have some extra DXCC.

I would think those WAC Cards would show up as Awarded for DXCC QSLs in LOTW...   That would make sense.

Logged
N3QE
Member

Posts: 2202




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 03:52:52 PM »

I'd like to record more of my QSL Card confirmations online and view them like LOTW without applying for an award?    I don't even now if that's possible or if I'd just make my own spread sheet - sorted in the proper format or if one exists?   

If you make an .ADI of your QSO's marking the ones that you have confirmed by LOTW and the ones you have confirmed by paper card QSL's... you can use this in many places. Most convenient for me (online) is to import to "clublog.org". This has proved very valuable to me as I track worked vs worked and confirmed in LOTW vs worked and confirmed on paper.

Of course DXKeeper is also supposed to be able to track award progress as well, but I find I much prefer clublog.
Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 05:20:13 PM »

I'd like to record more of my QSL Card confirmations online and view them like LOTW without applying for an award?    I don't even now if that's possible or if I'd just make my own spread sheet - sorted in the proper format or if one exists?  

If you make an .ADI of your QSO's marking the ones that you have confirmed by LOTW and the ones you have confirmed by paper card QSL's... you can use this in many places. Most convenient for me (online) is to import to "clublog.org". This has proved very valuable to me as I track worked vs worked and confirmed in LOTW vs worked and confirmed on paper.

Of course DXKeeper is also supposed to be able to track award progress as well, but I find I much prefer clublog.


Yes, I do the same thing.   Clublog is very useful for printing out the Countries Worked (QSl Charts) and seeing what's been Worked, Confirmed, Verified and who you can QSL to get it Confirmed.   I use that list as a reference if I'm not sure if I need a DX.   I also make notes to those that I sent a card (or 2).

And the Zone Charts (where you can click on the item to see who the call is).

I suggested that they do a Multi-Band WAS page.   They didn't seem that interested unfortunately.   It looks like all the Logging Programs could use a Clublog charting interface.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 05:27:07 PM by WH7DX » Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 12:55:58 PM »

Can someone tell me if QSL Cards submitted to ARRL and verified by them or a card checker end up on LOTW the same as LOTW electronic QSLs?

Do they go into the main log file?

Do they go into Selected and then moved to Awarded with an application?

----

The more that ARRL automates, the less work all the volunteers need to do, as well as operators and card checkers to a degree.

This is a lot of work to process all those applications.   In 2012 ARRL processed 55 DXCC applications per working day.   Then you have WAS and everything else.

ARRL probably had to verify about 800,000 QSL cards for DXCC if 50% were LOTW.    It's no wonder they introduced DXCC Online.    Who wants to enter 800,000 / 250 working days = 3,200 QSL cards per day and get it right.


Having the ability to include all QSL Cards online and being able to log in as a card checker with an ID and password to confirm Card QSLs online and then for ARRL to review the submission and click a button - would be a real time saver.   They could build in inspection tools..  unusual DX Cards.. patterns..   like contesting.

The more that ARRL can do in this area - the better it would be for everyone.

-----

01/14/2013 - ARRL

With the coming of more sunspots comes more DX. And when more amateurs work DX, the ARRL’s Membership and Volunteer Programs Department -- especially the DXCC Desk and the ARRL Incoming and Outgoing QSL Bureaus -- goes into high gear.

“In 2012, we saw an increase in the number of cards received from ARRL members that were sent to foreign QSL bureaus, as well as the number of cards we sent out to the bureaus,” said Membership and Volunteer Programs Administrative Manager Sharon Taratula. “In addition, the number of DXCC applications -- including those for initial awards and endorsements -- also increased.”

In 2011, the DXCC Desk processed 11,173 applications for initial awards and endorsements; these comprised 1,305,376 QSOs. In 2012, the DXCC Desk processed 14,301 applications, comprising 1,491,661 QSOs. “This represents a 14 percent increase in the number of QSOs and a 28 percent increase in the number of applications,” Taratula explained.

As the number of DXCC applications has increased, so has the number of QSL cards passing through the ARRL Outgoing QSL Bureau. “Through December 31, 2012, the ARRL Outgoing QSL Bureau received 808,500 cards destined for foreign QSL bureaus from ARRL members in the US,” Taratula said. “This represents an increase of 1 percent over the 2011 number of about 802,500 cards. In 2012, the ARRL shipped 731,440 cards -- or close to 5000 pounds of cards -- to foreign bureaus.”
Logged
W4PAH
Member

Posts: 67


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 01:01:56 PM »

Can someone tell me if QSL Cards submitted to ARRL and verified by them or a card checker end up on LOTW the same as LOTW electronic QSLs?

Do they go into the main log file?

Do they go into Selected and then moved to Awarded with an application?

If you have cards checked using the DXCC Online form (by a card checker), then they will appear in LoTW/your DXCC record online. You can use them for any future DXCC awards.

If you have cards checked for any non-DXCC awards (i.e., WAS) then they *do not* appear in the LoTW online record.

I agree that this would save some time/effort if you could have these contacts in the online log (for paper cards), but it's not part of the program.

If I submit my WAS CW award and have to include cards to be checked, then submit another award (WAS 40m CW) then I have to submit that card again to be checked. Waste of time. Would be a lot easier if there was a system to keep *all* checked cards in the list so duplicate efforts are not required.

73
-john W4PAH
Madison, WI
Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 01:55:09 PM »

Can someone tell me if QSL Cards submitted to ARRL and verified by them or a card checker end up on LOTW the same as LOTW electronic QSLs?

Do they go into the main log file?

Do they go into Selected and then moved to Awarded with an application?

If you have cards checked using the DXCC Online form (by a card checker), then they will appear in LoTW/your DXCC record online. You can use them for any future DXCC awards.

If you have cards checked for any non-DXCC awards (i.e., WAS) then they *do not* appear in the LoTW online record.

I agree that this would save some time/effort if you could have these contacts in the online log (for paper cards), but it's not part of the program.

If I submit my WAS CW award and have to include cards to be checked, then submit another award (WAS 40m CW) then I have to submit that card again to be checked. Waste of time. Would be a lot easier if there was a system to keep *all* checked cards in the list so duplicate efforts are not required.

73
-john W4PAH
Madison, WI


Thank you John.   I've haven't submitted any cards yet.  Getting ready to so and couldn't find the answer online.   As I was going through the process I kept scratching my head.... Undecided

That's too bad that they don't include the verified QSL cards online.   That would be a REAL Benefit.   So for every award, you need to pull out some cards and do 2 things unless you have all of them on LOTW (tough to do).

LOTW should include BOTH and DXCC Online should be changed to ARRL QSL Card Online using an online card checking verification system AND paper for those limited.

I appreciate all that ARRL does - it's a suggestion that could save thousands and thousands of hours of work all around.   A solid programmer could knock this out before Winter - having at least a month or more to test within a group of close ARRL members / card checkers etc.    It's only a few fields of data so it's the functions - they have the award specifics already.

  
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 01:59:27 PM by WH7DX » Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2013, 03:19:52 PM »


The more that ARRL automates, the less work all the volunteers need to do, as well as operators and card checkers to a degree.

This is a lot of work to process all those applications.   In 2012 ARRL processed 55 DXCC applications per working day.   Then you have WAS and everything else.

ARRL probably had to verify about 800,000 QSL cards for DXCC if 50% were LOTW.    It's no wonder they introduced DXCC Online.    Who wants to enter 800,000 / 250 working days = 3,200 QSL cards per day and get it right.


Having the ability to include all QSL Cards online and being able to log in as a card checker with an ID and password to confirm Card QSLs online and then for ARRL to review the submission and click a button - would be a real time saver.   They could build in inspection tools..  unusual DX Cards.. patterns..   like contesting.

The more that ARRL can do in this area - the better it would be for everyone.

So, right now ARRL looks over the applications with QSL Cards and generates an award certificate and returns everything.   They don't want to handle entering ANYTHING from a paper log. 

DXCC Online certainly gave them an extra hand.  Removed quite a bit of handwriting and verification.

If ARRL created a complete system - Members could print out their own certificate in the same manner as eQSL and or request an original in the mail as well.

I've always said.. eQSL did a great job with their system.   They just needed more security / blind matching and member QSL card checkers - which you get with a large organization like ARRL.
Logged
WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2013, 12:17:59 PM »

If I have this correct..  the only QSL Cards that get AWARDED in LOTW are those DX Cards Submitted through DXCC Online and I believe those DX Cards on Paper that are checked. 

It would seem to make sense to keep a separate photo album or box for those QSL Cards entered (awarded) in LOTW and listed as Verified or such on your logging software.   Keep them separate because those are done.   You won't need those unless it's for something else like IOTA - Islands on the Air.. 

That's what I'm going to do now.   Keep all the DX Approved in a separate album.

When the times comes to get an IOTA Islands award.. I'll need to pull everything out and submit the cards for checking.  Those would be any DX that qualified.. LOTW isn't accepted at the time.

It would be nice if there was a Third Party QSL Card Approver that was accepted by all the major awards.. an independent card checker like QSL Card Online.. or something.  Do it online like DXCC Online but for any QSL Card.   Cards in the mail to match online records.   Once approved the user could generate a query list sorted by which award they were going for.. the Award personnel of any Award Center (WAS, DXCC, IOTA Islands could access that list (ID created) of Verified Cards online as though they were looking that them personally... ahhh there's a twist, scanned cards from an approved center....

Anyway, so much could be done to make it easier but we're just in the tens of thousands not tens of millions so the demand isn't there.. even if it would be a huge relief for the volunteers working the awards.

LOTW and eQSL are great services helping make over 72,000,000 QSLs with LOTW and 301,000,00 with eQSL.   I think I miss quoted that before.     That's a lot of paper and postage..  Poor post office can't get a break on anything.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!