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Author Topic: Stuck up a tree!  (Read 5652 times)
N3DT
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Posts: 536




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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2013, 11:15:15 AM »

I'm going to have this issue sometime too.  I've got about 4 dacron/kevlar ropes up over branches and some of them are free and some are not.  I keep thinking there must be some way to send a little device up the end you do have to cut it off close to the branch.  The other end, good luck, jerk real hard.  My line is about 800 pound stuff though, it would probably bring the branch down.

That said, I've been thinking about when using ropes over branches, why not send up a loop of rope with a pulley or just a snap link to pass the antenna rope through. If you could get the loop with the pulley up there with some sort of double rope arrangement, pulling one rope disconnects the loop and leaves it on the branch, so that's all that will be left in the end.  I just haven't thought it out enough but I bet it could be done.

I bet with enough ingenuity a rope climbing device with a cutter on it could be made.  It's not magic.  Be a good science fair project.
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WH7DX
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 01:41:01 PM »

Having two anchor ropes holding it up should be easier than a center rope and two insulator ropes.  That center rope wouldn't come off nearly as easy as the antenna wires connected at coax.  That is the weak point.   

Being that its 60ft up...

1) cut the 2 trees down
2) get a climber
3) rope saw
4) new rope over the top and break it down
5) my choice... Break it down with coax.   Wrap it around your waist, get a running start and then fill us in with the details..   Grin

My wife always says.. You can break anything you set your mind to! 
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1713




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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 02:30:04 PM »

Re:N3DT

Yes, it can be done but depending on type of tree it can be a difficult or relatively easy,also desired height and catenary lead space must be considered.For a coniferous type tree with fairly uniform and straight branches and tappered to the top you send up the appropriate lenght of your permenent loop line(weighted)via the various launching methods to the highest point(max for me has been 40-50 ft.) then go around back side of tree and re shoot back on opposite side of center trunk so that you now have a big U of rope around upper tree and both ends back a same ground point,this is why you need a lot of rope so you can get as far away as possibe from base of tree with shallowest angle to top as possible to avoid longer lower tiered branches during haul up.Tie a permenent 2 in.dia, loop(eye) in one end,marry to this loop(eye) a 5-10 ft. or appropriate length of permenent line which on the other end will be your pully and pre rigged  antenna halyard thru pully that already has ant wire and insulator attached.Now take the other(bitter) end of loop line and reeve thru the eye,You now have what looks like a giant lasso around high part of tree with a lenght of line with pully/halyard/antenna wire dangleing down from lasso eye.Now for the fun part and believe me this is a 2 man and 2 six pack operation.Both men as far back from tree as possible,one pulling loop(lasso) tight and other guiding ant/halyard combo away and between branch tips while loop is being cinched up to top of tree.You will be left with end of loop line to be tied off at tree base and your actual antenna  halyard.Once a year slack off loop line take a little strain on other end of antenna and tighten loop again,this will free loop line from what bark has started to grow around it.Obviously deciduous type trees with their various angled branches will offer a bit more challange and pre planning.It's a lot more easier for me to do it than explaine it.HI 
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N3DT
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 04:01:49 PM »

I still say a rope climber device with a cut off/burn off arrangement would work.  I'm talking about deciduous oak trees here with 2-3" branches up 50-60'.  I have plenty 80' oaks in my yard that will do.  Send up only one rope, bring both ends down over the branch, pre-tie knots so you can pull a loop around the branch with a pulley or ring inside the loop.  Of course you will have to send another rope up with the pulley.  Then send up the rope climber on the rope with the loop and just cut off the loop leaving it around the branch.  I know it sounds too easy, but to make a rope climber that will do what we need is the issue.  And it would have to not have any knots in the rope.

I've got an 80M C-Pole up about 60' and the bottom is about 4' off the ground.  Also pulled up a stacked Hoverman TV antenna about 50'.  That  one is stuck.  The Hoverman I can pull in Channel 26 (UHF) from DC and line of sight from my location is about 55 miles over 2 ridges.  Once in a while the digital signal drops out.  It looks rinky-dink, but hardly anyone looks up that high.  I'll blast it out with the 12 gauge when we leave unless another Derecho takes it out.  We had one of those 80' trees on the house last year from that Derecho.  http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg287/DogTi/Tree/DSCN0956.jpg
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KE4JOY
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2013, 04:07:54 PM »


5) my choice... Break it down with coax.   Wrap it around your waist, get a running start and then fill us in with the details..   Grin

My wife always says.. You can break anything you set your mind to! 

Hah... of course I tried giving the coax a good tug all I did was pull the bottom of the balun out  Roll Eyes
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WH7DX
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 04:20:33 PM »


5) my choice... Break it down with coax.   Wrap it around your waist, get a running start and then fill us in with the details..   Grin

My wife always says.. You can break anything you set your mind to! 

Hah... of course I tried giving the coax a good tug all I did was pull the bottom of the balun out  Roll Eyes

So the coax came off?  Just the antenna wire to center connector?   So rope saw maybe?  don't know rope thickness... 60ft it pretty far up.  That means you probably wouldn't notice it much either.    I'd either leave it there or sling another rope over and break of down.  You'll have two sides hanging from the tree until they rust down..
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W1JKA
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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 04:39:24 PM »

Re:N3DT

Your rope climber device has merit,the main issue would be getting the device in close to the trunk among all the angled branches otherwise just get your messenger line up and over the wire and attach one of those combo branch pruner/cutter poles with a few rolling half hitches along its length haul her up and spend a little time fiddling around to get the cutter hook twisted over the rope/wire and pull on the long pole cutter lanyard and get the hell out of the way quick.
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W6EM
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Posts: 800




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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 05:52:20 PM »

Re:N3DT

Your rope climber device has merit,the main issue would be getting the device in close to the trunk among all the angled branches otherwise just get your messenger line up and over the wire and attach one of those combo branch pruner/cutter poles with a few rolling half hitches along its length haul her up and spend a little time fiddling around to get the cutter hook twisted over the rope/wire and pull on the long pole cutter lanyard and get the hell out of the way quick.

If the rope is just stuck, and not impelled in and covered too much by overgrown bark, you could try the "two ropes and a pulley" method.  First step: slingshot a line over the existing rope resting point and pull a rope from the ground up and through the same crotch with the old rope.  Take the far end of the old rope run it through a pulley on the side where its presently tied off.  Next, take the end of the rope you just pulled over the old one and tie it to the end of the old rope.  Now, take another very long piece of rope and tie it to the hook on the pulley frame.  This rope will be your “tag” line to hold the pulley up, or it will replace the old rope as the support.  Now, pull on the new rope, hoisting up the old rope and pulley up to the crotch of the limb.  As it crosses the crotch, you may have to pull quite hard, but it should yank the old rope out of the bark.  When it does, the antenna will drop.  Make sure the “tag” line rope is tied on the other end so you won’t lose it over the limb in the process.

Good luck and 73,

Lee

PS.  I may have to do the same thing to the feedpoint on my 160M inverted vee.  Beats a shotgun... 
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KE4JOY
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Posts: 1381




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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2013, 09:43:10 AM »


So the coax came off?  Just the antenna wire to center connector?   So rope saw maybe?  don't know rope thickness... 60ft it pretty far up.  That means you probably wouldn't notice it much either.    I'd either leave it there or sling another rope over and break of down.  You'll have two sides hanging from the tree until they rust down..

Nah it is a homebrew balun and had a bottom plate that held a 259 in place, the plate pulled loose so not its hanging by the coax. Antenna still works btw. Thought it had some issues but it turned out to be a faulty bypass switch in my tuner. That has been resolved and it tunes fine now so Im in no big rush to fix what is working Smiley But itwould be nice to be able to inspect it.
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K8AXW
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Posts: 3858




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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2013, 10:53:06 AM »

Since everyone is risking humiliation with their ideas on how to make a rope climber, etc., let me hang mine out.

Visualize two ropes tied to a large wooden loop (large enough to clear insulators and knots) ....one rope at each end of the loop. 

One rope is thrown over a limb higher than the one where the antenna rope is caught. The antenna is fed through the loop (disconnected from the center insulator) with the blade and the other end of the rope over the limb is pulled up until it stops where the rope goes into the limb.  Each rope is pulled back and forth until the blade cuts the rope.  Then the whole thing is pulled down.

Understand this is a rough thought with needed tweeking.

The "loop" could be made from a piece of 3/4" X 3" lumber with a large hole cut in it with a hole saw.

The blade could then be attached....even two blades attached to a common holder which could be as simple as two strips of metal with screws to clamp the blades and holes on each end to attach to the wooded loop. The two blades would be clamped end to end giving a longer cutting edge.

It might even be feasible to use the same branch as the snagged rope to use this.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2013, 02:07:07 PM »

Just for the hellovit I went to the shop and fabricated a facsimile of what I'm trying to say.  Instead of taking the time to cut two pieces of aluminum for the knife clamp, I fashioned this from heavy paper. 

The 3 dots on the paper represents 3 screws which hold the two utility knives in place as well as holding the clamp and knife assembly to the wood shuttle. 

I made the shuttle from 1/2" plywood.

It this won't work, I sure would like to know why not.

Here's the link:  http://s1171.photobucket.com/user/KarlAibling/library/eHam?sort=9&page=1#/user/KarlAibling/library/eHam?sort=9&page=1&_suid=137150268640603991124524072478
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KE4JOY
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Posts: 1381




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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2013, 02:28:13 PM »

You may be on to something there but I do not understand, how do you feed the antenna or anchor ropes through the loop when its tied off at both ends?

Maybe if you could make a upside down U that could be pulled up  and over  a tied off line with a cutting tool similar to those branch cutting poles at the top of the U or V for that matter.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pole+tree+trimmer&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=94C30B293FD3FFDCFAF07D70015673FF471D7069&selectedIndex=0
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K8AXW
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« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 05:47:35 PM »

JOY:  Well, we're talking inverted V or a dipole.  When the antenna is dropped down by one end, hopefully one leg can be disconnected from the center insulator.  Then that end of the wire if fed through the loop.

Plan B would be to saw a slot in the side of the loop for the wire to slide through.  I have no idea if this contraption is workable but it seems to me at first blush it should work.  Might be a good thing to have laying around if you have other hams in the area.  This, like so many other tools, is worthless until it's needed..... once in a blue moon!

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AD6KA
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Posts: 2237




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« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 06:49:26 PM »

Whatever method you decide on, please wear a hardhat
and eye protection. It's not worth losing an eye over.

Even a 1 oz sinker falling 60 feet will be going
19.70 m/s (43 mph) when it hits the ground.

The Splat Calculator:
http://www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed


73 ES GL,
Ken  AD6KA
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1713




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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2013, 03:00:56 AM »

The pole tree trimmer already has the upside down U cutter head on it,just unbolt and take off the saw.
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