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Author Topic: VHF Signal Distance?  (Read 3005 times)
WB8VLC
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Posts: 116




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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2013, 09:58:40 PM »

Just an example of the ducting range, k6qxy in Santa Rosa California has been receiving 2 of the kh6hme beacons on 432.31MHz and 1296.250 MHz last week at various times.  These beacons are near Hilo Hi.
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AD6KA
Member

Posts: 2232




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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2013, 08:46:11 AM »

Quote
I just *assumed* that if you had an actual Ham RAdio license and a nice $1000 rig you'd be able to talk to someone who went to WestMarine with $100 and no license?

You're joking, right?
You didn't notice that the frequency
in use was outside the ham bands?

Quote
..that if you had an actual Ham RAdio license
and a nice $1000 rig you'd...

As opposed to having a ham radio license and a $300 radio?
Like a nicer radio gives you more privileges?
Jeesh!
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12697




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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2013, 09:20:00 AM »

It costs money for a manufacturer to get his radio FCC certified (its no longer called "type acceptance") for use on commercial frequencies. Even if the ham radio was capable of meeting the technical requirements a mfg may decide that it is not worth the cost to have it certified for commercial use. He would have to increase the price of the radio in order to cover the certification costs but the majority of hams don't need the certification and would not purchase the more expensive radio.

There may also be user limitations required for certification that are not easily compatible with ham radio use. Commercial users are often prevented from selecting or programming in frequencies that they are not authorized to use (this would include the ham bands). In some cases certification requires that users be prevented from connecting external antennas (also not compatible with typical ham radio operation).

So, its not a simple matter of slapping a certification sticker on a ham transceiver so that it can be used for both ham and commercial services.
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WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2013, 11:18:03 AM »

Quote
I just *assumed* that if you had an actual Ham RAdio license and a nice $1000 rig you'd be able to talk to someone who went to WestMarine with $100 and no license?

You're joking, right?
You didn't notice that the frequency
in use was outside the ham bands?

Quote
..that if you had an actual Ham RAdio license
and a nice $1000 rig you'd...

As opposed to having a ham radio license and a $300 radio?
Like a nicer radio gives you more privileges?
Jeesh!

In the world of "Normal" one can expect that if you take the time to educate yourself on proper radio use and actually take a few tests, you'd be allowed to communicate on a frequency that any person can just walk into a store and purchase a radio and chat away.....

I see they do have a couple of radios that offer UHF/VHF and Marine so basically once I switch to Marine Freq. I'm no longer a Amateur Ham Radio Operator....   

I know when I tell my friends that none of my $x,xxx gear except the cheap radio on my boat $xxx can communicate on Marine Freq.. the one that requires no test.. that they will get a kick out of that.... 

Now I see why Ham Radio's don't allow Marine freq. communications.   It appears that those who buy the Marine SSB can modify to use Ham Bands and perhaps that's what some do.. or spend the money on another radio (which is also a backup).   They can listen to Ham and if it's an emergency - transmit.

Like I said, I don't have much experience with VHF, UHF - hardly use it.   This is news to me and it's good to know.

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WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2013, 11:21:41 AM »

It costs money for a manufacturer to get his radio FCC certified (its no longer called "type acceptance") for use on commercial frequencies. Even if the ham radio was capable of meeting the technical requirements a mfg may decide that it is not worth the cost to have it certified for commercial use. He would have to increase the price of the radio in order to cover the certification costs but the majority of hams don't need the certification and would not purchase the more expensive radio.

There may also be user limitations required for certification that are not easily compatible with ham radio use. Commercial users are often prevented from selecting or programming in frequencies that they are not authorized to use (this would include the ham bands). In some cases certification requires that users be prevented from connecting external antennas (also not compatible with typical ham radio operation).

So, its not a simple matter of slapping a certification sticker on a ham transceiver so that it can be used for both ham and commercial services.


Roger, I can see how that makes sense now.

Thanks for the info guys.    I found this on a boating site....


Since this IS my field and I AM an expert on this.. I'll state that a "modified ham radio rig" is legal to use in ham bands only.

It it not legal for amateurs or anyone else to modify radios to operate in "out of band" operation.

That does not mean you can't purchase radios that can operate in all bands though. You can.

I have a radio that CAN operate in both marine bands (actually it can pretty much transmit in any band) but it is ONLY operated in Amateur bands as that is what it was designed to do.

There's a little thing called "FCC Type acceptance".

Amateur radio gear is NOT(necessarily) FCC type accepted. Nearly all other equipment is. (Again, some ham radios are type accepted).

What this means is they meet certain specifications to prevent interference to other radio services.

If I'm not mistaken, you can find a few radios from several large manufacturers that will cover, legally, both the amateur bands and the marine frequencies you require.

Personally, I'd do a bit more research on the radio gear.

Lastly - you need to decide what you need to use the radio for. If you are a ham, you need to have an Amateur Radio Operators license. If you are going to use Marine, you need a restricted operators license (no test, just a fee) and a ships radio station license (fee, no test). Ham radio requires you have at minimum a General class license (not a HARD test, but not EASY either).

If you have a radio that is capable of being used on Marine frequencies, it CAN be legally modified to work in HAM bands (if you're a ham radio operator).

Any radio can be legally modified by amateurs to work in the ham bands. But you can't modify a "ham only" to work in OTHER bands (legally).

(For the record I hold a RR license, and I hold an Amateur Extra license. I've held a First Class Radio Telephone Operators license in the past - no longer issued these days, and Second Class and a Third Class. Also for the record I've been involved in using, setting up and training radio systems for nearly forty years now.)
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WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2013, 11:39:35 AM »

Some interesting items..   I also found a site with the instructions for "FT-897 extended transmit range" but no have desire to do anything.

----

This was an interesting read....

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=55498.10;wap2

---------

I have two (2) questions to ask but lets start with what i have. I have an icom 2200h and would like to use it for hunting as well as ham. the hunters in the area use mainly marine vhf non comercial channels. the problem i'm having is that my radio will let me listen to the chanels but not transmit.

Questions:
1) IS IT LEGAL?

2) how do i change it so that i can transmit on the non commercial marine channels.

----

1. No, it is not legal to transmit on marine channels unless you are a boat or a coast station.
2. It is illegal to transmit on any other frequency other then ham with a ham radio (exception MARS)

-----

If you studied and passed your Amateur license encourage your hunting buddies to do the same. A lot of folks believe that because you don't need a license to buy a Marine radio that you can operate as a unregulated radio communications medium; this is not the case. The FCC regulates and enforces the use of Marine radios and have issued NAL's to individuals in violation of FCC requlations.

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WA3SKN
Member

Posts: 5443




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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2013, 03:52:14 AM »

The FCC has things broken down into "services".  Don't go trying to use a radio for one service in another... you will just get into trouble.  Use a marine band radio for marine use, and keep the amateur radio in the ham bands.
73s.

-Mike.
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WH7DX
Member

Posts: 1029




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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2013, 11:15:39 AM »

The FCC has things broken down into "services".  Don't go trying to use a radio for one service in another... you will just get into trouble.  Use a marine band radio for marine use, and keep the amateur radio in the ham bands.
73s.

-Mike.

Like I mentioned a few times, I have no desire to modify a ham radio for Marine VHF.   I was just curious to learn about it.  It's interesting that a couple of radios will do both legally and that Marine VHF can operate in the Amateur Bands but manufactured ham radios costing multiple times more - aren't allowed because they might have spurious emissions or didn't get an FCC sticker...  I'm reading that some of it may be due to the complexity of the radio and in an emergency, a typical ham radio would be more difficult to operate than a simple Marine VHF... press a button and hold the mic etc...
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