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Author Topic: FlexRadio Systems Flex-6700 SmartSDR Preview Editions Arriving  (Read 32736 times)
NI0Z
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 04:47:32 AM »

So long as they understand that their approach has caused many like myself to move on and it's costing them sales, it's good. 

Hard to explain but Flex is hurting themselves with this because people can't make the call on where they stand, so many of us moved on.

Make no mistake, this will cost Flex lots of sales and as people choose the alternative, the alternative gets more money to make themselves an even better alternative.

Surely you can see the logic of this, so while you and others are playing with a preview addition, many others are just tired of the secret and waits.

Flex should have handled all this more openly and they should be encouraging their testers to more openly talk about the radio and be honest in that talk. 

All this leads to me believing more and more I made the right choice!

Don't take this wrong Steve, it's just sad to see where this all landed!  Feedback could have been something like this.

Still missing lots of features but the Receiver seems to be excellent.  audio quality is just what you would expect and the new interface SmartSDR is looking really sharp and is going to be a real pleasure to use.  Down side is we are still waiting on CAT control which will also require the new DDUtil 3.0 that is also due to be released soon.  Waterfall display is still being developed but due out late this year or early next year.  Lots of exciting development ahead and meanwhile on the Air the new Flex is a joy to use.

See, how bad is that?  Doesn't that sound a lot better than all the secret jive we are getting.

One can be upbeat about an expensive unfinished radio if they want without being dishonest and without being secretive. 

Time for Flex to embrace the fact that innovation takes time and comes at a cost.
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SWL2002
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Posts: 254




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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 05:07:33 AM »

So long as they understand that their approach has caused many like myself to move on and it's costing them sales, it's good. 

Hard to explain but Flex is hurting themselves with this because people can't make the call on where they stand, so many of us moved on.

Make no mistake, this will cost Flex lots of sales and as people choose the alternative, the alternative gets more money to make themselves an even better alternative.

Surely you can see the logic of this, so while you and others are playing with a preview addition, many others are just tired of the secret and waits.

Flex should have handled all this more openly and they should be encouraging their testers to more openly talk about the radio and be honest in that talk. 

All this leads to me believing more and more I made the right choice!

Don't take this wrong Steve, it's just sad to see where this all landed!  Feedback could have been something like this.

Still missing lots of features but the Receiver seems to be excellent.  audio quality is just what you would expect and the new interface SmartSDR is looking really sharp and is going to be a real pleasure to use.  Down side is we are still waiting on CAT control which will also require the new DDUtil 3.0 that is also due to be released soon.  Waterfall display is still being developed but due out late this year or early next year.  Lots of exciting development ahead and meanwhile on the Air the new Flex is a joy to use.

See, how bad is that?  Doesn't that sound a lot better than all the secret jive we are getting.

One can be upbeat about an expensive unfinished radio if they want without being dishonest and without being secretive. 

Time for Flex to embrace the fact that innovation takes time and comes at a cost.

There are a lot of SDR transceivers hitting or soon to hit the market.  The next year or two will be very interesting.  Flex took (is taking) way too long to get the Flex-6000 series into production and to the point where it is usable.  Had they gotten it all together by the end of last year, they would have had a good head start.  Now it is too late, many competitors are coming.  By making poor technical choices, Flex has priced themselves where people will look elsewhere.  The only people singing the songs of praise for Flex are the ones who need to convince themselves they were justified in spending such a large amount on a, at this point, half-existing transceiver.  By the time Flex gets the 6000 series fully functional, they will be overwhelmed with competition from less expensive equipment.

Very soon the Chinese will enter the SDR transceiver market.  Everyone will have a hard time competing.

-robert
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1694




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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 05:24:39 AM »

Why not openly embrace it so all can talk freely.

Alas, me saying this will not change anything for Flex strategy, but its too bad you can't talk about something that cost so much money.

Hopefully they'll move past all this when they get more of the full firmware/software developed.

It will never happen. Flexradio does not and never has embraced honest evaluations of their radios. Indeed if you do not tow the company line you will get censored on their Reflectors and here on eham. Being defensive of the Flexradios is something that is constantly promoted by Flexradio AND Flexers. Honest criticism is NOT welcome.

Yes they lose many sales because of this "attitude". Since there had been little SDR competition, Flexradio had the SDR market to themselves and did not care about customer satisfaction or lost sales. This is now changing as you and others are moving on to better SDR solutions with companies that promote honest and open discussions about improving their SDR radios.....

Stan  K9IUQ
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 05:30:48 AM »

The only people singing the songs of praise for Flex are the ones who need to convince themselves they were justified in spending such a large amount on a, at this point, half-existing transceiver.  By the time Flex gets the 6000 series fully functional, they will be overwhelmed with competition from less expensive equipment.
-robert

Much truth in your statement. IMO the biggest problem Flexradio has is not their radios. It is their management and how they run the company.

Stan K9IUQ
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K9ZW
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Posts: 180


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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 07:34:24 AM »

So long as they understand that their approach has caused many like myself to move on and it's costing them sales, it's good. 


Apparently "Preview Edition" doesn't fit how you would roll out a product of your own.  That's fine, but in this case it is their call, not ours.

Reality check though - if not being included in the development process spoils the end product for someone before it even is released to the wider market, then they should move along and buy something else. 

It is really hard to "wait and see" what the first official release of SmartSDR will be like.  Feeling among the Preview Edition participants is it will be worth the wait (and all of their hours of participation).

73

Steve
K9ZW

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NI0Z
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2013, 09:24:59 AM »

Let's be honest here now about the term "Preview Edition", that just seems like fancy spin for damage control for a very late product, doesn't it?  Isn't that what is really happening here?

Keep in mind, I am still a current Flex owner and the radio originally was pitched to me the same way it was to you and others.  This is why so many here can see right through the Spin.

My humble opinion is that Flex should dump the Spin cycle and just openly talk about where they are rather than use its preorder customers as being "privileged customers" who get to pay the full price early for an incomplete radio.  Isn't that what's going on and to say its some special beta program' isn't that really being deceptive?

All this makes it really hard to trust a company that seemingly and openly believes their customers are willing to help cover up for the huge miss or at best case are seemingly taking advantage of their customers loyalty and money.  But an even worse thought comes to mind as the spin and hype continue.  Did they really miss, or did they know all along that this would unfold this way?  Was this just a way to stay afloat while they developed a new product to keep pace with the market?  What would come out if we could know all the facts?  Perhaps it was a simple miss and now damage control.  We probably will never know.

Think about all this for a minute though.... Big picture... Quietly but openly the Open HPSDR team has been working on radios that in all actuality have the hardware to match wits with Flex.  It started years ago!  You have to look at some of the developers working on that project and I have to tell you, they are a highly impressive group and think tank.  What we have now are a group of radios that will be able to spin up 14 receivers off two ADCs and a honker of a FPGA.

http://openhpsdr.org/

Nobody used words like game changer while all this was quietly but openly going on.  The truth here is really some hams like myself were and still are largely ignorant to these developments.  [ Please note, some of you knew this and pointed me to the truth .. its unfortunate that you catch the flack you do for speaking openly or that you  get censored here at times for simply stating facts]  The censoring and backlash really needs to stop for thought progress and real awareness to flourish.

I am still learning everyday cool things that my radio already supports.  That's not to mention what lies ahead.  No, this is not bait on my radio verses your radio, this is about how cool and rich Open HPSDR development is and what some of us have been missing.  It's the progress I was able to make before posts and even entire threads got deleted.

I had a good conversation with a prominent Ham yesterday morning about education and what we can so to make today's kids and next generation hams more aware about Ham radio.  It's funny how things come together because I got a Rasberry Pi the other day and I started playing with it over the last couple of days.  Its a very simple small cheap computer focused on providing a learning vehicle for the current generation.  Its been out for a while and I finally got around the getting one.

Combine this with some low quality videos I made of some simple comparison tests and it leads to the thought that awareness is not only a problem for kids, but also for us current hams.  Even those of us that are not engineers, there are still lots of learn by experimenting opportunities and that can be a lot of fun.   

Ham radio is not old and dying, it's on the brink of a new horizon!  We are going to see 50V PAs that are finally going to start addressing Zenki's rants on TX performance. (Sorry Zenki, but perhaps your sermons are going to pay off now ).  Where is this happening?  Open HPSDR projects, that's where.

So what am I really getting to on my soap box here?

Take a little time and do your research my friends, the real game changer is quietly taking place under the radar and there is some super cool stuff coming and there is some super cool stuff already here!  The commercial efforts are quietly being surpassed by the Open Source community and a few smaller commercial vendors willing to embrace Open Source.  Ironically Flex started that way and benefited from it and now has seemingly closed the door going forward.  There are many great minds out there collaborating on the future.  Plug into the conversation and you might be very suprised by what you'll learn.

Flexers, again, don't take offense, I want Flex to succeed, but they are really ruining their image right now in my opinion.  The number of Flexers talking about this underground is growing. If you are as big of flex fans as I think your are, report back to HQ on this.  See how they respond?

And if a moderator is considering deleting this post, please stop for a minute and think about what I wrote and the questions that were posed here.  If we can't talk openly here, what can we really talk about?  This post is not an attack on anyone, it's about awareness and talking openly about where SDRs stand.  Can't we just talk?
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N0YXB
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Posts: 304




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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2013, 10:47:55 AM »


And if a moderator is considering deleting this post, please stop for a minute and think about what I wrote and the questions that were posed here.  If we can't talk openly here, what can we really talk about?  This post is not an attack on anyone, it's about awareness and talking openly about where SDRs stand.  Can't we just talk?


Are you saying that you have had posts deleted on this forum, or was that paragraph included for dramatic effect?  I know that one poster indicates he has had some of his posts deleted, but I was not aware that others have (or say they have) had this problem.  I hope not. 

Regarding the future of SDR, Zenki rightly said in another thread that the market will decide, and he is right.  Fortunately the market seems to be growing, so we should have plenty of choices.  I agree with an earlier post of yours, these are exciting times indeed.
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Vince
NI0Z
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2013, 10:55:31 AM »

Yes, I have had posts deleted as a result of entire threads or large parts of threads being deleted.  I don't believe my remarks caused the deletion s but rather some of the responses to my remarks ended up getting axed. 

I would say that most times the conversations were about Flex Radios.  People tend to take them as attacks.  The thing is, for quite some time Flex owned the lion share of the SDR Market, so it's only natural to talk about them.  Heck, I am an owner as well, so I hope I have earned the right from my purchase to comment on my experience and thoughts and perception on how the new products were marketed to me.

Now that there are alternatives galore, it's only natural and logical to compare.  These comparisons and discussions are critical information to hams as they make decisions about SDR radios.

I'd hope we could all discuss and debate these issues in a professional and open fashion.
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SWL2002
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Posts: 254




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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2013, 11:10:05 AM »

Yes, I have had posts deleted as a result of entire threads or large parts of threads being deleted.  I don't believe my remarks caused the deletion s but rather some of the responses to my remarks ended up getting axed. 

I would say that most times the conversations were about Flex Radios.  People tend to take them as attacks.  The thing is, for quite some time Flex owned the lion share of the SDR Market, so it's only natural to talk about them.  Heck, I am an owner as well, so I hope I have earned the right from my purchase to comment on my experience and thoughts and perception on how the new products were marketed to me.

Now that there are alternatives galore, it's only natural and logical to compare.  These comparisons and discussions are critical information to hams as they make decisions about SDR radios.

I'd hope we could all discuss and debate these issues in a professional and open fashion.

I own a Flex-5000, but I am far from being a fan.  Too many failures from Flex over the time I've owned it.  This eHam forum is becoming just like the Flex Radio mailing list.  If you have any criticism at all of Flex Radio, your posts get deleted or you get yelled down by all the over the top Flex supporters.

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NI0Z
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2013, 12:45:13 PM »

I wonder if previewers had to sign an NDA agreement to not talk about their preview experience, issues, features ect?

That would be the ultimate choke collar!  Imagine, maybe your disappointed by your new radio and you can't even talk about it.  I don't recall a collar being part of the original limited edition package.. Does it have any signatures on it?  Does it match the jacket?

Please tell me that is not the case here?  Then again, I guess nobody with the radios can answer that question right now.

Ok, I am just being humorous here, you have to admit its kind of funny isn't it?

I will leave this topic alone now, but I do look forward to being able to hear more about the radio when it's fully baked.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 01:21:28 PM by NI0Z » Logged

K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1694




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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2013, 05:20:05 PM »

I do look forward to being able to hear more about the radio when it's fully baked.

Get ready for a   l o n g   wait. The Flex 5K never did get fully baked.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Instead it got dumped in the trash.  Wink

Stan K9IUQ

« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 04:45:33 AM by N2MG » Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1694




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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2013, 05:25:46 PM »

Let's be honest here now about the term "Preview Edition", that just seems like fancy spin for damage control for a very late product, doesn't it?  Isn't that what is really happening here?

Keep in mind, I am still a current Flex owner and the radio originally was pitched to me the same way it was to you and others.  This is why so many here can see right through the Spin.


I did not quote your whole post as it is quite lengthy. However it is one of best posts I have ever seen about Flexradio. Someone needs to send it to Mr Youngblood aka CEO of Flexradio....

Stan K9IUQ
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N9RO
Member

Posts: 124


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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2013, 05:51:08 PM »

Let's be honest here now about the term "Preview Edition", that just seems like fancy spin for damage control for a very late product, doesn't it?  Isn't that what is really happening here?

Keep in mind, I am still a current Flex owner and the radio originally was pitched to me the same way it was to you and others.  This is why so many here can see right through the Spin.

My humble opinion is that Flex should dump the Spin cycle and just openly talk about where they are rather than use its preorder customers as being "privileged customers" who get to pay the full price early for an incomplete radio.  Isn't that what's going on and to say its some special beta program' isn't that really being deceptive?

All this makes it really hard to trust a company that seemingly and openly believes their customers are willing to help cover up for the huge miss or at best case are seemingly taking advantage of their customers loyalty and money.  But an even worse thought comes to mind as the spin and hype continue.  Did they really miss, or did they know all along that this would unfold this way?  Was this just a way to stay afloat while they developed a new product to keep pace with the market?  What would come out if we could know all the facts?  Perhaps it was a simple miss and now damage control.  We probably will never know.

Think about all this for a minute though.... Big picture... Quietly but openly the Open HPSDR team has been working on radios that in all actuality have the hardware to match wits with Flex.  It started years ago!  You have to look at some of the developers working on that project and I have to tell you, they are a highly impressive group and think tank.  What we have now are a group of radios that will be able to spin up 14 receivers off two ADCs and a honker of a FPGA.

http://openhpsdr.org/

Nobody used words like game changer while all this was quietly but openly going on.  The truth here is really some hams like myself were and still are largely ignorant to these developments.  [ Please note, some of you knew this and pointed me to the truth .. its unfortunate that you catch the flack you do for speaking openly or that you  get censored here at times for simply stating facts]  The censoring and backlash really needs to stop for thought progress and real awareness to flourish.

I am still learning everyday cool things that my radio already supports.  That's not to mention what lies ahead.  No, this is not bait on my radio verses your radio, this is about how cool and rich Open HPSDR development is and what some of us have been missing.  It's the progress I was able to make before posts and even entire threads got deleted.

I had a good conversation with a prominent Ham yesterday morning about education and what we can so to make today's kids and next generation hams more aware about Ham radio.  It's funny how things come together because I got a Rasberry Pi the other day and I started playing with it over the last couple of days.  Its a very simple small cheap computer focused on providing a learning vehicle for the current generation.  Its been out for a while and I finally got around the getting one.

Combine this with some low quality videos I made of some simple comparison tests and it leads to the thought that awareness is not only a problem for kids, but also for us current hams.  Even those of us that are not engineers, there are still lots of learn by experimenting opportunities and that can be a lot of fun.   

Ham radio is not old and dying, it's on the brink of a new horizon!  We are going to see 50V PAs that are finally going to start addressing Zenki's rants on TX performance. (Sorry Zenki, but perhaps your sermons are going to pay off now ).  Where is this happening?  Open HPSDR projects, that's where.

So what am I really getting to on my soap box here?

Take a little time and do your research my friends, the real game changer is quietly taking place under the radar and there is some super cool stuff coming and there is some super cool stuff already here!  The commercial efforts are quietly being surpassed by the Open Source community and a few smaller commercial vendors willing to embrace Open Source.  Ironically Flex started that way and benefited from it and now has seemingly closed the door going forward.  There are many great minds out there collaborating on the future.  Plug into the conversation and you might be very suprised by what you'll learn.

Flexers, again, don't take offense, I want Flex to succeed, but they are really ruining their image right now in my opinion.  The number of Flexers talking about this underground is growing. If you are as big of flex fans as I think your are, report back to HQ on this.  See how they respond?

And if a moderator is considering deleting this post, please stop for a minute and think about what I wrote and the questions that were posed here.  If we can't talk openly here, what can we really talk about?  This post is not an attack on anyone, it's about awareness and talking openly about where SDRs stand.  Can't we just talk?



Mark,
EXCELLENT POST!

Tim,  N9RO
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Real techies don't use knobs.
SWL2002
Member

Posts: 254




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2013, 06:05:14 PM »

Let's be honest here now about the term "Preview Edition", that just seems like fancy spin for damage control for a very late product, doesn't it?  Isn't that what is really happening here?

Keep in mind, I am still a current Flex owner and the radio originally was pitched to me the same way it was to you and others.  This is why so many here can see right through the Spin.

My humble opinion is that Flex should dump the Spin cycle and just openly talk about where they are rather than use its preorder customers as being "privileged customers" who get to pay the full price early for an incomplete radio.  Isn't that what's going on and to say its some special beta program' isn't that really being deceptive?

All this makes it really hard to trust a company that seemingly and openly believes their customers are willing to help cover up for the huge miss or at best case are seemingly taking advantage of their customers loyalty and money.  But an even worse thought comes to mind as the spin and hype continue.  Did they really miss, or did they know all along that this would unfold this way?  Was this just a way to stay afloat while they developed a new product to keep pace with the market?  What would come out if we could know all the facts?  Perhaps it was a simple miss and now damage control.  We probably will never know.

Think about all this for a minute though.... Big picture... Quietly but openly the Open HPSDR team has been working on radios that in all actuality have the hardware to match wits with Flex.  It started years ago!  You have to look at some of the developers working on that project and I have to tell you, they are a highly impressive group and think tank.  What we have now are a group of radios that will be able to spin up 14 receivers off two ADCs and a honker of a FPGA.

http://openhpsdr.org/

Nobody used words like game changer while all this was quietly but openly going on.  The truth here is really some hams like myself were and still are largely ignorant to these developments.  [ Please note, some of you knew this and pointed me to the truth .. its unfortunate that you catch the flack you do for speaking openly or that you  get censored here at times for simply stating facts]  The censoring and backlash really needs to stop for thought progress and real awareness to flourish.

I am still learning everyday cool things that my radio already supports.  That's not to mention what lies ahead.  No, this is not bait on my radio verses your radio, this is about how cool and rich Open HPSDR development is and what some of us have been missing.  It's the progress I was able to make before posts and even entire threads got deleted.

I had a good conversation with a prominent Ham yesterday morning about education and what we can so to make today's kids and next generation hams more aware about Ham radio.  It's funny how things come together because I got a Rasberry Pi the other day and I started playing with it over the last couple of days.  Its a very simple small cheap computer focused on providing a learning vehicle for the current generation.  Its been out for a while and I finally got around the getting one.

Combine this with some low quality videos I made of some simple comparison tests and it leads to the thought that awareness is not only a problem for kids, but also for us current hams.  Even those of us that are not engineers, there are still lots of learn by experimenting opportunities and that can be a lot of fun.   

Ham radio is not old and dying, it's on the brink of a new horizon!  We are going to see 50V PAs that are finally going to start addressing Zenki's rants on TX performance. (Sorry Zenki, but perhaps your sermons are going to pay off now ).  Where is this happening?  Open HPSDR projects, that's where.

So what am I really getting to on my soap box here?

Take a little time and do your research my friends, the real game changer is quietly taking place under the radar and there is some super cool stuff coming and there is some super cool stuff already here!  The commercial efforts are quietly being surpassed by the Open Source community and a few smaller commercial vendors willing to embrace Open Source.  Ironically Flex started that way and benefited from it and now has seemingly closed the door going forward.  There are many great minds out there collaborating on the future.  Plug into the conversation and you might be very suprised by what you'll learn.

Flexers, again, don't take offense, I want Flex to succeed, but they are really ruining their image right now in my opinion.  The number of Flexers talking about this underground is growing. If you are as big of flex fans as I think your are, report back to HQ on this.  See how they respond?

And if a moderator is considering deleting this post, please stop for a minute and think about what I wrote and the questions that were posed here.  If we can't talk openly here, what can we really talk about?  This post is not an attack on anyone, it's about awareness and talking openly about where SDRs stand.  Can't we just talk?



Mark,
EXCELLENT POST!

Tim,  N9RO

AMEN!  Right on the money!
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WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 392




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« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2013, 06:15:46 PM »



 If you have any criticism at all of Flex Radio, your posts get deleted or you get yelled down by all the over the top Flex supporters.


I think we saw this effect on the previous page to this one. I responded to a post you made
regarding a post that Steve made, and now, your post is gone. And it makes my post that was
left behind look like I just posted nonsense and was responding to no one in particular.
It would have been better in that case, to delete my post as well.
Really odd in my opinion.
(oh, and I wasn't yelling at you.........or as least, I hope it did not appear that way!)
james
WD5GWY
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