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Author Topic: Time to dump the phonetics  (Read 18746 times)
KE3WD
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Posts: 5689




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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2013, 01:05:00 PM »

Re:VE3FMC

Your accurate observation is most likely due to the fact that most of theses forum contributors were Boy Scouts in their youth.

Well, this one very recently told 'em to go to hades.  As have thousands. 

Quote
... I have no idea except that Taps is TANGO ALPHA PETER SIERRA.

Um, how about PAPA there? 

No merit badge awarded for the phonetics part of the test...


73
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1806




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« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2013, 01:18:52 PM »

Re:KE3WD

Of course you are correct concerning the letter P. I just threw PETER in to see if anybody was awake. BTW I did earn the old BSA Signaling merit badge. Wink
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G4IJE
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Posts: 248




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« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2013, 10:56:12 AM »

It seems to me that the standard NATO/ICAO phonetic alphabet works pretty well most of the time. My only gripes are that some words have three syllables rather than two and I happen to have two of those longer words in my call ("In-dee-ah, Jew-Lee-Ett ..."), and it's hard to say "Golf Four ..." quickly without the words running together. Even though I hate using non-standard words, I sometimes have to use "George Four" instead.

In my job I often have to telephone IT support centres in India and I use phonetics all the time with great success.
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4830




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« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2013, 11:10:59 AM »

The time the ITU/ICAO/NATO phonetics don't work well is for very weak signals, down in the noise. Way back in the 1980's, GW4FRX found this out and commented on it in RadCom - he was (is?) a noted VHF SSB DX'er, and a number of other VHF DX'ers agreed with him.

One only needs to look at communications theory to see why - the book 'Signals, Symbols and Noise' by J. R. Pierce is a good introduction.
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KH6DC
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Posts: 660




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« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2013, 05:39:40 PM »

It's still being used in the Army, ask any SIG BN
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
K7RNO
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Posts: 279




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« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2013, 09:40:48 PM »

In the late 60s in the German Navy, we learned, of course, the NATO alphabet, but also a more detailed list of names for numbers. They started with something like the Latin word for it, followed by the (almost) English. I don't remember them all, but some were

terra-three
penta-five
sette-seven
nove-niner

What cracks me up today (on 2m) is that most everybody rattles down their call without phonetic spelling but needs you to spell out yours, because they are not familiar with it. Duh!

Anyway, phonetic spelling with the international alphabet is the way to go and anyone who wants to be understood should use (learn) it and nothing else. Bravo Alpha Sierra Tango Alpha!

73,
Arno
K7RNO
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73,
aRNO
NAQCC #6870, SKCC #11131
N3HFS
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Posts: 212




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« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2013, 04:32:28 AM »

Just this weekend I was working 2-meter medical comms at an event, and I had to report that "Ambulance has arrived from Alpha Fire Company." 

Naturally, I was asked to spell "Alpha."  Boy, responding with the phonetic spelling that felt rather weird.  Tongue
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N2MG
Administrator

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« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2013, 05:26:19 AM »

Just this weekend I was working 2-meter medical comms at an event, and I had to report that "Ambulance has arrived from Alpha Fire Company." 

Naturally, I was asked to spell "Alpha."  Boy, responding with the phonetic spelling that felt rather weird.  Tongue

Ha ha. Perfect example of when NOT to use the standard phonetics!
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KE3WD
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Posts: 5689




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« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2013, 05:45:52 AM »

Perfect example of WHEN to use your phonetics. 

"Alpha, I spell, Alpha-Lima-Papa-Hotel-Alpha, copy?"


It isn't that hard to memorize the Int. Phonetics such that they are at the tip of the tongue when needed, one just has to resolve to practice it daily until it becomes rote. 


73
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N3HFS
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Posts: 212




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« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2013, 06:44:10 AM »

Ha ha. Perfect example of when NOT to use the standard phonetics!

Perfect example of WHEN to use your phonetics.  

Well, given that this was 2-meter FM and copy was generally perfect, I really should have responded with "A-L-P-H-A, Alpha."  
But instinctively, I went through the whole "Alpha-Lima-Papa..." thing which immediately brought up the concept (in my head) of the potential that this could lead to a internal self-reference redundancy error or an endless loop of phonetically spelling a phonetic.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 06:46:46 AM by N3HFS » Logged
VE5EIS
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Posts: 52


WWW

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« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2013, 11:44:23 AM »

It isn't that hard to memorize the Int. Phonetics such that they are at the tip of the tongue when needed, one just has to resolve to practice it daily until it becomes rote.

I've only had a callsign since April, and NATO phonetics have already become rote to me.  I use phonetics at least once a day so they stuck in the head pretty quickly.
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4830




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« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2013, 01:04:08 PM »

I find it interesting that none of those who advocate the use of the ITU/ICAO/NATO phonetics under all conditions have addressed the problem of poor S/N where communications theory is in favour of longer polysyllabic words.
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 619




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« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2013, 07:45:24 PM »

Quote
"Q" = Quebec = "keh BECK"

That's why its important to know, not only the phonetics but, the RULES for their use.  As I was taught in ground school (in 1958), the words are pronounced in "AMERICAN ENGLISH" thus eliminating the confusion.  Today, I understand that pronunciation is dependent on region of the world where used, once again introducing the potential for error just to salve some group's ego.  Common Sense = 0,  Political Correctness = 1; when (if ever) is it going to end?
Tom
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K9MHZ
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Posts: 433




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« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2013, 09:15:02 AM »

Even the US military got rid of it, and for a good reason......


Huh?  Very strange, I must not have gotten that memo.

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G3RZP
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Posts: 4830




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« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2013, 10:59:05 AM »

K9MHZ,

Neither have all the ATCO's! (Air Traffic COntrollers)
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