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Author Topic: TIRED OF SECOND RATE TREATMENT QRPERS GET.  (Read 22780 times)
NU4B
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 06:51:20 PM »

Quote
get a good real estate agent that will look out for your interests - like me.  Grin

Or a good real estate lawyer... like me.

Anything-Goes Texas is an antenna farmer paradise. Got listings near him? My wife can't wait. Here's the 200 lb quad as seen from next door:
http://www.homesnap.com/TX/San-Antonio/1212-Bailey-Avenue

I've worked every country in the world except two with nearly invisible antennas. A shack wall is covered with contest certificates. My 40-meter 4-square was a killer. Its reed-thin verticals blended into our 60' pines pretty well. Yes, some of my certificates were QRP.

Just curious, who gets to decide what's acceptable? You? Me? Your wife? The neighbor's wife? Its the same old argument. (By the way, the topic of this thread had nothing to do with antennas and for the QRP division in the Marathon there are no antenna limitations. So I don't know what the point of this conversation is in relation to the topic.)

I live in Tennessee and you can move into a development with a bunch of covenants and regulations/restrictions...or... you can choose not to. I have seen some dandy antenna farms on a small lot. And they are perfectly within their right to build them - as long as they conform to county/city codes.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 08:36:30 AM »

ASA:  Ray, I concure but the original poster was lamenting about feeling like a second rate HAM for running 5w. 

Then it was pointed out that the 5 watter was running into a massive bird strainer with an ERP that makes his 5w output laughable.

As for anyone upset with such an antenna in the back yard....well, as you well know, some simply can't take a joke!
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AD9DX
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 09:21:39 AM »

ASA:  Ray, I concure but the original poster was lamenting about feeling like a second rate HAM for running 5w. 

Then it was pointed out that the 5 watter was running into a massive bird strainer with an ERP that makes his 5w output laughable.

As for anyone upset with such an antenna in the back yard....well, as you well know, some simply can't take a joke!

So do you think QRP should only apply if the ERP is <5W?

FULL DISCLOSURE: I am not a QRPer, but do operate QRP often to increase my DX pileup skills for countries I've already got on certain bands...

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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
W1JKA
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 09:58:46 AM »

If you put a restriction on ERP with only 5W rig output then I guess the Best and Highest antenna possible theory for your rig goes right out the window.
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NU4B
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 10:38:32 AM »

QRP output is not measured as ERP. Whether it should be or not is a different topic. I can't think of a single contest or award that uses ERP. It doesn't mean there's not one, but I don't know what it is.

Quote
Then it was pointed out that the 5 watter was running into a massive bird strainer with an ERP that makes his 5w output laughable

I think that is the whole point of improving your antenna system... isn't it? To increase the effective ERP without increasing the output power? Whether you put a dipole higher than it was, add more radials to a vertical, replace old coax, raise a beam... aren't these all activities that attempt to increase ERP?

Yes, I would like an antenna with an ERP that makes my 5 watt output laughable! As a DXer, heck yeah I want one!
That's what most DXers want whether 1000 watts, 100 watts, or 5 watts.
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AE7UT
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2013, 11:49:46 AM »

This is really an interesting thread.  I operate QRP and QRO.  I'm also very new to ham radio.

In my opinion a QRP guy with a massive antenna like that is at a huge advantage over most operators.
You're probably putting more signal in the air than many people running 100-500 watts and your receiving
capability would be FAR superior.

If it makes you feel any better I'm totally envious of your set up!
I live in an XYL restricted zone and just have a OCFD and EFHW wires.
The biggest thrill in my ham experience was firing up my just built K1 and making a contact.

73
Stan AE7UT

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K0OD
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2013, 04:35:09 PM »

WG5G: "Currently, just finished installing replacement rotator # 5"

From the Google Street View photo it sure looks like that 50' tower and 200lb quad that extends above it could fall onto the driveway (and car? and driver?) next door. As his neighbor, would you want your kids playing in the path of that monster?
http://www.homesnap.com/TX/San-Antonio/1210-Bailey-Avenue

Maybe WG5G's neighbor also believes "A Man's Home is His Castle."

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K8AXW
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 09:25:09 AM »

ASA, and the rest..... yes, I do believe that 5w output means just that....ERP 5w....or at maximum 5w into a dipole....which does in fact have some gain.  But no "bird strainers!"

Think about it.  What is the point of saying, "I'm running 5 watts here" but leave out the fact that your ERP is 35 watts or more?  In my mind this simply doesn't compute!

To say it another way, it doesn't impress me a bit when someone proudly says that they worked "X" number of countries....WAC.....DXCC, etc., running QRP when in fact their ERP is much greater.

It does impress me when someone is running 5w with a wire antenna and has the skill and patience to actually work someone.....regardless of the location.... with QRP.

I recently built a QRP transceiver.  I then built a 50w linear for the transceiver.  The difference in results is incredible.

What's the difference with me jacking up my 2w to 50w with a linear or jacking up my 5w with a 9db gain beam? (In principal, not mathematically -  Roll Eyes )

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W1JKA
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 12:04:48 PM »

With 5w output where does a rotatable WIRE Hex Beam at 20 ft. fit into the equation other than being at the other end of the feed line? I'm not keen on now being considered a QRO operator.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 12:40:03 PM »


Quote
where does a rotatable WIRE Hex Beam at 20 ft. fit into the equation other than being at the other end of the feed line?

JKA: I figure you're jerking me around by my ass with this question and I refuse to be sucked into a stupid argument or discussion with you. 

I stand firm in my opinion.  I'm not a QRP cop. QRP'rs can tell themselves anything they want to believe! Wink
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NU4B
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 02:23:39 PM »

ASA, and the rest..... yes, I do believe that 5w output means just that....ERP 5w....or at maximum 5w into a dipole....which does in fact have some gain.  But no "bird strainers!"

Think about it.  What is the point of saying, "I'm running 5 watts here" but leave out the fact that your ERP is 35 watts or more?  In my mind this simply doesn't compute!

To say it another way, it doesn't impress me a bit when someone proudly says that they worked "X" number of countries....WAC.....DXCC, etc., running QRP when in fact their ERP is much greater.

It does impress me when someone is running 5w with a wire antenna and has the skill and patience to actually work someone.....regardless of the location.... with QRP.

I recently built a QRP transceiver.  I then built a 50w linear for the transceiver.  The difference in results is incredible.

What's the difference with me jacking up my 2w to 50w with a linear or jacking up my 5w with a 9db gain beam? (In principal, not mathematically -  Roll Eyes )



On the receive side it may be the difference between hearing the DX station or not hearing the DX station. On the transmit side, its a more efficient use of the power available. Its the ability to make that DX contact with 5 watts and X beam versus making it with 1500 watts and X beam. Its not a really complicated concept. A gain antenna doesn't have to be an al yagi. It could be wires.
If you are promoting the idea that QRP is 5 watts ERP, OK, but that isn't the generally accepted definition of QRP for contests, awards, the QRP ARCI, and many other organizations. Incidentally the FCC doesn't use ERP in its power output limits either.
And the idea that one wouldn't make antenna improvements to increase their ERP is hogwash (at any power level).
And further the idea that one wouldn't substitute an effective (gain) antenna for an increase power tells me somebody doesn't get QRP. Installing the most effective antenna you can rather than increasing power IS QRP at its finest. The idea that you can build a small solar powered 5 watt station and feed it to a high gain antenna and work the world is amazing example of QRP.
I don't know where you people are coming from, but those of us who are die hard DX'ers aren't normally trying to contact 2 states over. What we are looking for are rare and far away stations normally located on the other side of the world. I guess you can wait until the solar conditions get to a point where its possible to make those contacts (receive and transmit) with a dipole (maybe at least a couple solar cycles away) or you can build a QRP station that can overcome the anemic solar conditions we have today. Or you can be a fake QRP'er and increase your power to make those QSOs - if you can hear them.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 02:54:43 PM by NU4B » Logged
K8AXW
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2013, 08:30:51 PM »

4B:  Excellent dissertation.  

With my 4w output CW transceiver and 9db gain Yagi I work just about everyone I hear.

With my 2w homebrew transceiver driving a 50w linear and inverted V antenna, I work about anyone I hear.

With my other 4w homebrew transceiver and inverted V antenna I listen and call and on occasion manage to work someone.

Which one should give me the greatest personal QRP satisfaction of the two?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:33:34 PM by K8AXW » Logged
NU4B
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2013, 09:37:15 PM »

4B:  Excellent dissertation.  

With my 4w output CW transceiver and 9db gain Yagi I work just about everyone I hear.

With my 2w homebrew transceiver driving a 50w linear and inverted V antenna, I work about anyone I hear.

With my other 4w homebrew transceiver and inverted V antenna I listen and call and on occasion manage to work someone.

Which one should give me the greatest personal QRP satisfaction of the two?

Obviously only you can determine the answer to that question.
I get great satisfaction out of all my QRP contacts. My most memorable QSO's come from different power levels, antennas, distance, etc...
For instance a couple years ago when condx were really good I worked on (and finished) working DXCC running milliwatts with a Sierra and a windom. Many of the QSOs were on the high bands (which I expected) and while I enjoyed knocking DXCC milliwatt out one by one, I can't say anyone of them was my most satisfying QRP QSO.
On the other hand some of my most satisfying were:
 - An 80 meter QSO with a VQ9 station (5 watts and a windom)
 - a 2 way milliwatt QSO with HK3CQ. We were both running Rock Mites @ 500 mW and beams
 - AA1TJ/QRPp - he was running 40 mW
 - Working a new one with my HW-9 - I so enjoy running the HW-9. I jumped with joy when I got 7O6T (4/3 watts and a beam or wire depending on band)
 - VU2BK - I chased that one for days. This was before the internet. I wrote down what time he came on the air, tracked him, and waited for my chance. It had to be a day when 10 meters opened up really early and I had to be the first one there or I would get stomped on by the QRO stations. 5 watts and a beam
 - 6O0CW - I broke a big wide pile up after figuring out he was only using 2 receive freqs and alternating between them (5 watts and a windom on 30M)
And many more, too many to list.
And one when I had to run 12 watts to make the QSO. A French ham needed TN for WAS and sent an email asking for a sked. He couldn't hear me at 5 watts, but I cranked the K2 up to 12 and made the QSO. But that was about him finishing WAS and not about me running QRP and it was a pleasure to make the QSO.

So, for me, power and/or antenna don't necessarily determine the most satisfying QRP QSO.

Now, do you want to talk about the biggest disappointments?  Grin Grin Grin

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WA2TPU
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2013, 10:11:13 PM »

To WG5G........
First off....

Congratulations! My sincere congratulations to you Dan. I tip my hat to you. GREAT JOB!!

Next.....I happened to be looking-up a few words in the dictionary the other day because one of my grandsons was here.....and poised some questions to me that I could only explain by their definitions....well...to make a long story short...

"Beauty" was one of the words that I had to explain to him in depth.

 Dan.....OMG I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I GOT TO THE PAGE THAT WORD "Beauty" was on.....

THERE WAS A PHOTO OF YOUR ANTENNA Dan!! OH MERCY!!

Again, CONGRATULATIONS DAN ON YOUR WIN IN THE CONTEST.

Best regards with many 72....73.
Don sr.-- WA2TPU/QRP -- FOREVER!! Currently off the air...I'VE  LOST MY BEAUTIES!!
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AA9G
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« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2013, 05:06:49 AM »

Truly I cannot believe some of you all are critical of the mans antenna. WTF is he supposed to feed? a Dummy load? Should he just route his signal into a ground rod? 
His antenna is none of YOUR GD business!! Personally I applaud him for understanding the parameters he is allowed to function under and maximizing his station accordingly.
Thats what we as hams are all supposed to be doing and not sitting around like a bunch of hand wringing grannies posting pictures and snide comments.
Seriously, get a life if thats the best you can contribute to this forum and get it elsewhere!
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Ex KC9EEV.
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