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Author Topic: Once again whackers wanna screw up the hobby... Encryption  (Read 137734 times)
AA4PB
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Posts: 12849




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« Reply #120 on: August 20, 2013, 05:00:58 PM »

"encryption" can be as simple as substituting one character for another. Any mode can be encrypted - it doesn't even have to be digital, although it usually is in this day and age. During WWII text was manually encrypted and then transmitted via CW. Anybody could hear the CW and actually copy the characters that were being sent. The characters didn't make any sense unless you had the key to decrypt the message.

At any rate, unless you are using spread spectrum you still hear the presence of the signal. You just can't understand the content of the message without the key.
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KB8VUL
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Posts: 118




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« Reply #121 on: August 29, 2013, 07:09:32 PM »

WOW..... just WOW!!!!!
I do love how people can set an argument based on a specific scenario and then run with it and demand to be taken seriously.
Creating a specific scenario and then claiming that ham radio can save the day during that situation is a bit silly. 

When all else fails.  What does that mean?   What situation creates that?  Phones down?  Phones and internet? Every public service radio system in the county plus the above mentioned?  What causes that?  Storms?  Nuclear holocaust? What is the actual situation?  If it's all broke what broke it?  If something broke it, then how is the ham stuff still working when everything else don't?  Do hams have some sort of magical radio network that will pass traffic when the public safety systems are all silent?  I need to hear about this.  I been in public safety radio for a while.  This cool new ham only technology needs to be shared with the public safety people.  You can't simply sit on it and not allow it being shared.  Is it some sort of ultra high tech battery? Some fuel cell that produces power from rain water and allows towers to simply spring from the ground as needed?  I need to hear more about this.  Is there some sort of secret society in ham radio that is the keeper of this tech?  I understand that it needs to be protected, but it would be worth millions.  It could save the starving pigmies in Africa even.  And what benefits for "The Children" it could have.  After all it IS for the children. 
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W9FIB
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Posts: 722




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« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2013, 04:23:50 AM »

VUL... Your disdain for Emcomm has been well documented in other threads. But you only look at things from your particular location.

In the rural county that I live in, the 911 center, dispatch communications, fire and ems paging systems, police car data exchange systems, fire and police repeaters, and even our own ARES repeater all live in the county seat which has a population of about 1500 people. The tower site where all the antennas live is on a hill in the city. The back up antenna systems are all located on a water tower about a mile away from the main tower site. The court house building is in between the 2 sites and houses all the equipment. Even the back up mobile command bus is parked in the garage of the courthouse. So even a small tornado could completely damage or destroy all of the infrastructure in 1 blow.

Then consider that of the 25 or so active members of our ARES group, only 3 live within a 3 mile radius of the county seat. That would leave 22 members who are dispersed in our county who can be called on to help fill the gap in such an event. Your right about it not being magic. It is simply by geographical location that hams could still put together a working system in such an event. And we train every year with our county officials for such an event.

Will that ever happen? Probably not. But it is comforting to know that if it did, we have neighbors helping neighbors who are ready, willing and trained to help. And that, at least to our ARES group, is what Emcomm is all about. Simply people helping people. Is that really such a bad thing? Maybe people helping people IS the magic!
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K5LXP
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Posts: 4486


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« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2013, 06:02:51 AM »

So even a small tornado could completely damage or destroy all of the infrastructure in 1 blow.

So amateur radio is the backup plan to incompetent government?

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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W9FIB
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Posts: 722




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« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2013, 06:25:08 AM »

Actually it is the reality of living in a rural area with limited resources. Just like the question of a rural fire department buying Chinese handhelds instead of Motorola in one of the threads. A small tax base means limited resources. And I would gladly exchange some volunteer time to avoid higher taxes. Just like I did as a volunteer fireman for 25 years.

And yes, it is a portion of the back up plan.
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W7ASA
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Posts: 235




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« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2013, 02:34:58 PM »

"So amateur radio is the backup plan to incompetent government?

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM"


I know of no other kind of government.

A little personal responsibility generally trumps all the top down, heavy taxation and 'enforcement' by those who care less for your families than they do their own career and power base.


"That government which governs BEST governs LEAST."   - An axiom of Free Men
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 619




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« Reply #126 on: August 31, 2013, 04:05:27 PM »

Quote
Do hams have some sort of magical radio network that will pass traffic when the public safety systems are all silent?  I need to hear about this.  I been in public safety radio for a while.  This cool new ham only technology needs to be shared with the public safety people.  You can't simply sit on it and not allow it being shared.  Is it some sort of ultra high tech battery? Some fuel cell that produces power from rain water and allows towers to simply spring from the ground as needed?  I need to hear more about this.  Is there some sort of secret society in ham radio that is the keeper of this tech?  I understand that it needs to be protected, but it would be worth millions.

GOOD GRIEF!  I must really be bored to read, much less respond to, such drivel, so I won't waste much of my time doing so.  The concept that you so lust after is generally referred to as DISTRIBUTED RESOURCES and is a rather basic, but proven concept.  If you don't understand it (and I expect you don't based on your writing) SEARCH for it on the internet.  You might actually learn something.
"I been in public safety radio for a while."  I presume you meant to say, "I've been... OR I have been...  Just curious, in what capacity?
Tom
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 04:08:15 PM by WB6DGN » Logged
K1CJS
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Posts: 6034




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« Reply #127 on: August 31, 2013, 04:11:13 PM »

Sounded like sarcasm to me, Tom.  If it isn't....  well... Roll Eyes
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 619




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« Reply #128 on: August 31, 2013, 04:30:05 PM »

Quote
Sounded like sarcasm to me, Tom.  If it isn't....  well...

SARCASM??   ME???   Not ME!

Tom
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K1CJS
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Posts: 6034




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« Reply #129 on: August 31, 2013, 05:36:44 PM »

NO--No, not you--the passage that you quoted!  BTW, who did you quote?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 05:49:31 PM by K1CJS » Logged
KB8VUL
Member

Posts: 118




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« Reply #130 on: August 31, 2013, 06:09:32 PM »

"So amateur radio is the backup plan to incompetent government?

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM"




NO NO NO.  That is an incorrect statement.
Incompetent amateur radio is the backup plan to incompetent government.
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KB8VUL
Member

Posts: 118




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« Reply #131 on: August 31, 2013, 06:26:33 PM »

Now in all seriousness, what is it that hams think they have over public safety radio?
VHF is VHF, UHF is UHF and so on.  While low band VHF is no replacement for HF I can't see much of a need for long distance communications in all but the most dire of situations. 

I am not saying that every police force has all their radios programmed with all the FEMA innerop channels (even though they are required to).  But whats so damn special about ham radio that it's going to be able to pass traffic when the police radio towers are laying on the ground (and as FIB pointed out the ham stuff is on the same towers).

Have you ever heard of talk around?  It's the little button on the police radio that alows them to communicate simplex on the repeater output frequency.  Gee, they got simplex too, just like us hammies.  So if they can only talk 10 miles mobile to mobile on their VHF channel, how is it that you are going to talk any farther?

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W9FIB
Member

Posts: 722




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« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2013, 06:41:43 PM »

Well hams have something that the public service does not. That is another repeater in the next town that can be utilized without reprogramming all the radios to use it. Changing frequency on a VFO is much easier then reprogramming public service radios. Yes, it can be done, but it takes time. And in the interim, hams can pass needed traffic until the public service stuff gets fully back on its feet. That is what our group is trained to do. Fill the gap while there is a gap in service. Again distributed resources is the key.
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WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 619




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« Reply #133 on: August 31, 2013, 07:32:41 PM »

K1CJS wrote:
Quote
BTW, who did you quote?

Oops!  I don't know why I have so much trouble remembering that.  I quoted KB8VUL from Ohio.  And, yes, his previous post to my comment was DRIPPING with sarcasm which is why I responded as I did.
Kinda amusing, too.  I answered his challenge but he chose to ignore my explanation.  Obviously he didn't have an answer.
Tom
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KB8VUL
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Posts: 118




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« Reply #134 on: September 04, 2013, 06:05:02 PM »

First off... Tom,your hilarious.  I got better things to do than run right home and check to see if some grammar Nazi like you picked apart my post to prove their self worth.  Ironic that the only accurate thing in your post is you grammar Nazi crap.

As far as your definition of distributed resources, I honestly had to laugh.  The ham repeater in the next town.  Gotta ask,  When the local police is chasing someone or needs assistance do you think they radio into dispatch and ask them to call the next town over?  No, they get on their radio, switch channels and talk directly to them.  It's this thing called interoperability, maybe you have heard of it.   

So, any police dept, and especially the fire departments, which go out on runs together all the time and can ALWAYS talk to the FD in the next town over, are going to have all neighboring departments channels in their radios.  They are also going to have the FEMA interop channels in their radios which are specifically for situations where primary communications are impaired.

So, we are now back to this wonderful technology that ham radio has that the public safety people seem to be lacking.  Do your VHF radios some how talk farther than their radios?  Can't say as I have seen that.  Are your car and HT batteries some new super cell technology that work for days instead of hours before needing recharged?  Nope.  Same battery technology exists on both fronts.  I did see the comment on distributed resources.  And while that does have a bit of merit, on communications coordinator worth his tax payer funded salary is going to be employed long if he's not directed all the departments he oversees to have their radios properly programmed for not only talk around (simplex) but with the channels for all surrounding departments (also with talk around) and the FEMA simplex interop channels.  This of course is the commercial equivalent of a VFO.  Sure a VFO can take you anywhere, but when you only need to go specific places, it's actually sort of a nuisance. 
So again I ask, what is it that ham radio has that is simply not available and needed for communication when the local radio system is impaired?
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