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Author Topic: Once again whackers wanna screw up the hobby... Encryption  (Read 129127 times)
W9FIB
Member

Posts: 569




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« Reply #135 on: September 04, 2013, 10:37:34 PM »

Have yet to see a VHF analog radio have interoperability DIRECT to a UHF trunking system. There is a point to point system for the area to pass traffic. But dang it, someone didn't put it in the mobiles. It is a dispatch to dispatch system. And since the dispatch center is down, guess that that's not going to work well either.

You see you probably grew up around a larger community where every department has all the latest toys to use. I can only speak for my area, not yours or any one else. You can continue to compare apples to oranges all you want. All I can say is at the present time, in the scenario I originally presented, that's the way it is in my area. So go on talking about all the things we should have, but do not.

Like I said, I would rather volunteer some time then pay for all those things you seem to think magically appear at every emergency government agency.

Rant on VUL! But until you know what we have and don't have here, don't preach to me about things that you may have and say everyone has it as well. If you really hate the fact that some areas may use hams to help out in an emergency, then stop being a ham yourself. Stop posting that what we do is some kind of sin. It will relieve the stress in your life, and you wont have any more worries about it.

You asked some questions that I thought were compelling, and I took some time to answer based on what happens HERE, not THERE. It was an example that tried to show where certain conditions in MY area we utilize what we have. And that happens to include ham radio. Like it, don't like it, I have stopped caring at this point. But like many other things, it is what it is. No pixie dust or magic. It is what it is.
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K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5863




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« Reply #136 on: September 05, 2013, 03:21:56 AM »

You want to know what ham radio has that the public service radio systems that police and fire departments do not?  That's easy--the rabid emcommers that think they're indispensable!   Cheesy
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KF7GFL
Member

Posts: 44




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« Reply #137 on: September 05, 2013, 11:15:43 AM »

KB8VUL asks a good question, "So again I ask, what is it that ham radio has that is simply not available and needed for communication when the local radio system is impaired?" Doing a bit of reading and looking at real-life situations, as opposed to making up unrealistic zombie apocalypse scenarios, I think it boils down to resources.

K1CJS's last response may have been tongue-in-cheek but he has a point. Let's assume there is a major event that brings down all communications for a particular geographical region. Everyone's first priority is going to be themselves and their families. Once home and family are secured, then professionals and first responders will be able to help those around them. So what happens when the guy responsible for putting all those fancy public radio services back online is still helping his/her family or is in another location and can't get to yours? In some cases, communication will be restored by some amateur radio operator long before the professional is able to get on the scene. Why? Because you don't need anything more than desire, a little studying, and a $15 license to get amateur radio functioning. Servicing those public service radio infrastructures requires much more training, certification, and credentials that are not nearly as ubiquitous.

If you need a recent example of amateur radio use during a disaster, do a bit of research on hurricane Sandy a year ago. Some areas relied on amateur radio for communications while others did not.
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KD8GTP
Member

Posts: 57




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« Reply #138 on: September 05, 2013, 12:51:36 PM »

And it gives the people who never really amounted to much in life an easy second chance to feel important, no matter how self perceived that may be.
GOD Bless
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W1MSG
Member

Posts: 84


WWW

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« Reply #139 on: September 05, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »

You want to know what ham radio has that the public service radio systems that police and fire departments do not?  That's easy--the rabid emcommers that think they're indispensable!   Cheesy

BINGO we have a winner ....
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W1MSG
Member

Posts: 84


WWW

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« Reply #140 on: September 05, 2013, 10:15:25 PM »


Have yet to see a VHF analog radio have interoperability DIRECT to a UHF trunking system. There is a point to point system for the area to pass traffic. But dang it, someone didn't put it in the mobiles. It is a dispatch to dispatch system. And since the dispatch center is down, guess that that's not going to work well either.

You see you probably grew up around a larger community where every department has all the latest toys to use. I can only speak for my area, not yours or any one else. You can continue to compare apples to oranges all you want. All I can say is at the present time, in the scenario I originally presented, that's the way it is in my area. So go on talking about all the things we should have, but do not.

Like I said, I would rather volunteer some time then pay for all those things you seem to think magically appear at every emergency government agency.

Rant on VUL! But until you know what we have and don't have here, don't preach to me about things that you may have and say everyone has it as well. If you really hate the fact that some areas may use hams to help out in an emergency, then stop being a ham yourself. Stop posting that what we do is some kind of sin. It will relieve the stress in your life, and you wont have any more worries about it.

You asked some questions that I thought were compelling, and I took some time to answer based on what happens HERE, not THERE. It was an example that tried to show where certain conditions in MY area we utilize what we have. And that happens to include ham radio. Like it, don't like it, I have stopped caring at this point. But like many other things, it is what it is. No pixie dust or magic. It is what it is.

I really haven't played into this thread yet but here goes.

Exactly what type of Emergency Communication do you think the EMCOMM folks do? Do you really think they will be dispatching Police Fire and EMS?

Don't sell your local systems short, check with the Jefferson County Sheriff's Dept since they handle your after hours dispatching and see exactly what the capabilities are, I think you will be surprised.

I currently work in a 911 Dispatch for a very small town in MA, to be a 911 center you have to have a whole lot of back up systems, not to mention simplex systems as well. We also have all of the surrounding towns programmed not only in dispatch but in all our Police Fire and EMS Vehicles. I seriously doubt there are any Departments in the USA that don't do this.

Guess what ... NONE of it is encrypted, and it doesn't have to be, so long as EMS does not give a Patients name over the radio they are not in violation of HIPPA. Police side can give names all day long, and we do time a Tag or OLN is checked, just no Medical stuff.
Also you wouldn't even be allowed to answer a phone in a 911 center, you must have a certification and a background check completed and that's just for starters.

So what exactly do the ARES/RACES EMCOMMers think they will be doing in regards to communications in a disaster?

73, Craig
W1MSG
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W1JKA
Member

Posts: 1619




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« Reply #141 on: September 06, 2013, 03:32:30 AM »

   

So what exactly do the ARES/RACES EMCOMMers think they will be doing in regards to communications in a disaster?

  More than likely being held in a reserve capacity in a rearward area drinking coffee and checking gear while awaiting replacement orders for front line casulties.
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K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5863




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« Reply #142 on: September 06, 2013, 05:23:39 AM »

...Guess what ... NONE of it is encrypted, and it doesn't have to be, so long as EMS does not give a Patients name over the radio they are not in violation of HIPPA. Police side can give names all day long, and we do time a Tag or OLN is checked, just no Medical stuff....

It's been said before in this thread and elsewhere on this board that there are exemptions to the HIPPA rules about confidentiality that covers just about any communication made over amateur radio.  It is simply not necessary to continue to refer to conforming to  confidentiality issues when there is no need for it!

That is the one reason that this thread is just so much horsesh*t--it raises a supposed issue where there is no issue to raise.  Encryption simply is not necessary, needed OR REQUIRED BECAUSE OF THOSE EXEMPTIONS for passing such information over amateur radio frequencies!

Although I know that it won't be, that should be the only necessary point of this whole discussion.  73.
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WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 584




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« Reply #143 on: September 06, 2013, 12:35:53 PM »

I have NO need for encryption; I just want to mess with it.  Having seen some really neat stuff in one of my jobs, I'd like to learn more about it (and NO, reading about it doesn't teach very much at all).
So...guess people like me (and I think there are many) are just SOL.  Thanks again "land of the free".
Tom
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W6EM
Member

Posts: 710




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« Reply #144 on: September 06, 2013, 08:24:44 PM »

I have NO need for encryption; I just want to mess with it.  Having seen some really neat stuff in one of my jobs, I'd like to learn more about it (and NO, reading about it doesn't teach very much at all).
So...guess people like me (and I think there are many) are just SOL.  Thanks again "land of the free".
Tom
Well, once upon a time, hams and other experimenters used devices called dummy loads.  So they could operate a transmitter without radiating a signal.......beyond the bench.  Mess around all you want with a dummy load connected to whatever you want to.....mess with.  Make those codecs and algorithms to your heart's content.  If you think speedlimits are too constraining, move to Germany and drive the autobahn.
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W6EM
Member

Posts: 710




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« Reply #145 on: September 06, 2013, 08:37:42 PM »

.....
Have you ever heard of talk around?  It's the little button on the police radio that alows them to communicate simplex on the repeater output frequency.  Gee, they got simplex too, just like us hammies.
Talk around to your heart's content with a watt or so on a 700, 800, or 900MHz trunker.  There was reason cops and firefighters couldn't communicate post-Hurricane Katrina.  Trunked system with a dead tunking controller is no system at all, except possibly as a bunch of very low power simplex or in-cell repeaters. 
 
Quote
So if they can only talk 10 miles mobile to mobile on their VHF channel, how is it that you are going to talk any farther?
Try 40M or 60M mobile during the day or 75M at night.  You'd be surprised.
All not needed if and when FEMA shows up with their Sat trucks.....provided the satellite is functional.  Oh, almost forgot.  The ISS.  Certainly could be a very high level repeater, so long as we and the Russians are on good terms.
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KD8GTP
Member

Posts: 57




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« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2013, 12:56:09 PM »

Can the admin please setup a forum where you wackers can post a few pics of yourselves in your wacker gear.  I'd luv to see how you transformed your personal vehicles into emergency response units. And how about a few with you decked out in your ecomm garb, orange vests, ARES hats, tactical vests sporting a dozen HTs? I'd like to put a face to these posts:)
Wacker come forth and show ye self. Now serious stuff. I blame the ARRL for promoting this ecomm crap. However I understand they will promote anything that makes them a buck. So I suggest the ARRL start pushing ARUFOC. The amature radio UFO chasers will chase UFOs like the storm wackers chased funnel clouds! The ARRL will promote and back this new group. They can sell ARUFOC hats lined with tin foil so the UFO guys can't read you mind. And orange vests with ARUFOC on the back and lined with foil so the UFO can't get a tractor beam locked on you! ARUFCO magnetic signs for your car that turn red when the UFO puts out too much radiation. At night the marketing boys at the ARRL will stand on top of the building and shine laser lights into the sky and say, "there they are buys, go get'em Smiley
Presto, overnight a new breed of wacker is born Smiley
GOD Bless
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W6EM
Member

Posts: 710




Ignore
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2013, 02:56:07 PM »

Can the admin please setup a forum where you wackers can post a few pics of yourselves in your wacker gear.  I'd luv to see how you transformed your personal vehicles into emergency response units. And how about a few with you decked out in your ecomm garb, orange vests, ARES hats, tactical vests sporting a dozen HTs? I'd like to put a face to these posts:)
Wacker come forth and show ye self. ...
  A couple of them in Manatee/Sarasota Florida had SUVs decked out like this....... Plus, Whalen Show Me's and blue light visibars.....  As I remember, the official uniform of the Manatee Amateur Radio Club was an orange vest.

i.ytimg.com/vi/aDtMYs2X-O0/0.jpg
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 03:07:24 PM by W6EM » Logged
KC2UGV
Member

Posts: 219




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« Reply #148 on: September 07, 2013, 08:55:59 PM »

What do hams have that LEO's and FD's don't have?

Agility
Ability to engineer communcations systems, ad hoc
Ad hoc communications systems, in place

There's more, if one would only read the amateur code.
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W6EM
Member

Posts: 710




Ignore
« Reply #149 on: September 07, 2013, 09:18:32 PM »

....There's more, if one would only read the amateur code.

Now, that's something you won't hear in wacker ops outside of a repeater auto-IDer.  CW requires focus......
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