Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: PAR End-Fed - 20m monobander or 10/20/40 Mk2 ?  (Read 22463 times)
W7JCK
Member

Posts: 11




Ignore
« on: July 17, 2013, 04:59:29 PM »

I finally broke down and ordered my HB1B, and hope to do some 40-30-20 CW work after a few decades of relative inactivity.  I have an outdoor restriction, but got management approval for a wire antenna, but the only space I have has some limitations.

My space is about 42' long and 10' high.
To keep the visual impact of it at a minimum I agreed to use an end-fed model. 
My antenna will run East-West and that means that 'South of Idaho' is where my signal is most likely to be heard by the English speaking population.

After all the restrictions together, I come down to a few choices-

1.  PAR End-Fed 20m, 33' long at 10'.

2.  PAR End-Fed 10/20/40m Mk 2, 41' long at 10'.

3.  Random wire about 41' long at 10', at the end of 50' of (coax?  twinlead?) tuned with an MFJ-971.

#1 seems like a time-proven solution, but only for 20m, which isn't always open.
#2 -although the reviews are good, I wonder about efficiency of a multi-band on an end-fed
#3 -never tried random-wire, unsure how a tuner would work 50' away from it, unsure how to feed it, and whether a balun is needed

I am open to suggestions on any of these.

W7JCK
Logged
KA4NMA
Member

Posts: 317




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 10:07:08 PM »

You could try an inverted "L" style antenna. Run it vertical for 10' and horizontally for 40'. At the vertical end attach the wire to a weatherproof antenna tuner such as a SGC model.  Coax would then be used to connect it to your radio.  The ground side of the antenna tuner (it has 2 connection points), attach as many radials you can.  It would be preferably to use buried radials about a 1/4 for each band.  Power would also be run from the shack to the tuner.  This setup would give you multiband capabilities.  When you chase bands, just use the antenna tuner and you will be good to go. The SGC tuner will tune at the presence of RF. It will measure the frequency, check its memory for a match and will either use the memory match or start a tune cycle.  Once the SWR is below 2, it will stop tuning and you are set. At the base of the antenna, cover it with a plastic bucket for extra protection (open side down to allow for drainage and plant flowers around it.   Check out sgcworld.com for more info.

Randy ka4nma
Logged
W7JCK
Member

Posts: 11




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 10:23:21 PM »

I appreciate the info on the SGC products, but that's more than I am spending on the rest of the station at this point.  I'm afraid I am also lacking much of a location for a real radial system.

Am I correct in understanding that using a simple 'tuner' indoors will just nicely match a piece of coax with a bad load to my rig?  I wonder if I should try and bring the end of a random wire in thru a bulkhead at the window to an indoor tuner, and then run a short length of coax from the rig to the tuner?
Logged
W5CYF
Member

Posts: 11




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 04:45:28 AM »

Here are my thoughts based on actual experience with the EndFed 10/20/40 and the HB1A rig.

The 10/20/40 EndFed will do fine, in fact it is my preferred antenna for portable use.  I’ve owned a Buddistick and while the quality is extraordinary and you don’t need “trees” for the Buddistick the EndFed 10/20/40 outperforms it and is easier to use, hands down, in my opinion.

The 10/20/40 is rock solid with low SWR across the CW portion of the band (I have no experience on the voice side but would assume it would have same performance). It requires no tuner, nor is one recommended.

For the past 12 months I’ve pretty much been living in an RV due to job transfer and the 10/20/40 has remained outside in blistering Texas heat and cold…looks and works as good as the day it was put up.  I’ll be moving it to my permanent QTH in a week or so and it will become my primary QRP antenna.

I have mine in a sloping arrangement with one end up in a tree ~20 feet running to a fence post about ~6 feet high.  Have no problem with QRP signal for both RX/TX
As a side note, you may want to view the 10/20/40 antenna and the HB1A in action by searching my YouTube channel for HB1A and PAR 10/20/40, it should show up (channel name is W5CYF). 

In the video, it have the antenna hooked up to an MFJ 259B to show SWR.  The video has a low volume for the first 30-40 seconds but then the camera picks up audio fine after that.
If you have other questions about the antenna, shoot me an email.

73
John/W5CYF
Logged
W1JKA
Member

Posts: 1619




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 05:18:32 AM »

I often use the PAR 40 for portable qrp/cw, but your band(s) choice will be fine for your restricted fixed location especially as noted in the inverted L configuration. Because they are easy and cheap to make I also use inverted L EFs and matching unit for 20 & 30 meters.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 05:20:36 AM by W1JKA » Logged
K5LXP
Member

Posts: 4451


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 06:33:27 AM »

I wonder if I should try and bring the end of a random wire in thru a bulkhead at the window to an indoor tuner, and then run a short length of coax from the rig to the tuner?

The coax adds no value in that scenario.  Unless you provide radials, your equipment will become the radials.  That's not always bad but there are issues with common mode like the tuning changing when you touch equipment or EMI ingress/egress.  The plus with the PAR end fed is the match box makes it palatable to the rig without having anything to adjust.  Many revile the concept of any kind of end fed but in my experience they are a usable solution in some cases.

I too have the PAR 40-20-10 and use it portable.  Not having a second antenna to compare it to it's hard to say how "good" it is but it readily makes contacts, which is my goal.  Note that it's limited to 25 watts which isn't a problem with your HB1B but it's something I have to watch with my 100W portable rig.  10 feet isn't very high but for what you'll have into it, you can easily start with that and then experiment with other solutions.


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

Logged
W7JCK
Member

Posts: 11




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 04:33:47 PM »

That's a couple of solid endorsements for the 40-20-10 end-fed in a qrp environment.

That's what I'll order tonight.  Thank you all very much.



Logged
W4FID
Member

Posts: 126




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 05:17:46 AM »

NOTE!!!!!! The SGC coupler is a great tool. LOVE mine -- for the right use. It requires at least 10 watts to activate. My IC-703 won't trigger the tune routine. This guy stated a QRP rig that doesn't deliver 10 watts so the SGC won't work for him.

The end fed multi band will do well. It's what I use for QRP/travel. Those 3 bands will offer a QSO almost anytime to someone somewhere. Just do the best you can installing it -- as high and as clear as you can. The situation is what it is -- so you  work whomever you work and you enjoy the QSOs you have.

Logged
WB0KSL
Member

Posts: 94




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2013, 02:15:18 PM »

My SGC-237 tunes just fine at 5 watts input. The manual specs it out at 3 to 100 watts.

73 de WB0KSL, John
Logged
WX7G
Member

Posts: 5922




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 07:18:25 AM »

The PAR End-Fed 10/20/40m Mk 2 is a resonant antenna with reasonably narrow VSWR bandwidth on 40, 20, and 10 meters. As such I don't think it uses lossy matching and so it is an efficient antenna.
Logged
W7JCK
Member

Posts: 11




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 06:25:30 PM »

The PAR End-Fed 10/20/40m Mk 2 is a resonant antenna ...

Thanx for that viewpoint.  I should have mine installed by the weekend.
Logged
KB1GMX
Member

Posts: 718




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 10:56:42 AM »

Notes on PR/LNR EF-xx antennas.

They are as efficient as a dipole for that band.  Thae are resonant half wave antennas.

Exception:  The PAR EF40/20/10 is a loaded antenna on 40 and is about -2db
less (give or take).   I got that approximation comparing it to a PAR EF-40 in the
same location (supports),  and using a friend 50 mi away during the day as a
reference.  For 20 and 10 it is dipole or better (10M is a fullwave wire!)
The test process was using pulleys and rope to raise and lower each so they
were non interfering with each other.   The difference is small and enough that
its near the measurement error level.  Even if the result is accurate the value
of a 26ft  [tribander 40ft, EF40 66ft long] shorter 40M antenna is not wasted.

The PAR 20M monobander is very good and the tribander is its equal save for one thing
and that is power handling.  The monobander is 100W and the tribander is 25W both a
continuous rating.  If power limit is not an issue the triband antenna is a better choice
with three bands and only 40ft long.

As to bandwidth I went through the effort to tune my triband PAR for the center of the bands
and found that it was easily about to cover the bands with exception of 10M and it covered the
CW/Beacon/SSB phone segment (28-28.7) without any problem.  I have heard and verified the
"narrow band claim locally" of others and in most cases the antenna had lowest SWR at
the bottom of the band [one case below!] and had not been cut or tuned [they are supplied long].

With all that and plenty of antenna choices I find the EF-40/20/10 to be my general use antenna
for those bands and a second one for portable use for the same reasons.  When I need a high power
antenna n my inverted-L with many radials and match at the feed point does well on 80/75 and 40.


Allison

Logged
KATEKEBO
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 01:24:50 PM »

I use the PAR End-Fed 10/20/40m Mk 2 and it works great.  I use it with a Yaesu FT-817, 5W, mostly SSB.  No problem with making transatlantic contacts on 20m and 2-3000 miles on 40m most of the time.
S. Bucki
KD8KQH
Logged
N4JTE
Member

Posts: 1154




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 02:59:53 PM »

Are all you folks reporting such good success using some type of counterpoise or is it more of a feedline antenna ?
I am not asking lightly because a few of th responders have obviously been succesful judging by lookups on QRZ, which I always do when someone vouches for a limited space commercial antenna, hi.
Bob
Logged
W1JKA
Member

Posts: 1619




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 05:06:09 PM »

Re: N4JTE

  I can't speak for others but I use my efhws connected either direct to rig or with a 20 ft. coax feed line with my QRP rigs either way no other counterpoise wire needed, the rig is enough. At the few local informal field days we hold yearly I have never seen a CP wire used with theses antennas although I'm sure there are certain conditions in which they may be useful for various reasons.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!