Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Want to move to Flex.. but a few Questions  (Read 49448 times)
SWL2002
Member

Posts: 374




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 05:00:10 AM »

Since none of the eHam Anti-Flex trolls will step up with anything more than childish prattle..

WN4E - If you are a SSB'er, then you will not find a better HF radio in the range than the Flex 3000.

The 500 is discontinued and the new high end Flex is the 6500/6700.

I would suggest, if you are bent on trying SDR, to either  buy a Flex 3000 and enjoy a superb HF SSB/Digital experience, or wait for the dust to settle around the new crop of DUC/DDC radios. Don't waste your time on the Anan, unless you don't mind shelling out twice the price of the Flex 3000 for an intermediary technology shim.

The above quote is just more childish prattle from our eHam Pro-Flex troll K5TED.  Ignore him because he does not make suggestions in your best interest by suggesting a Flex 3000.  Stay away from the Flex-1500, Flex-3000 and any used Flex-5000 radios.  Just like the Flex-5000, your investment in a 1500 or 3000 will turn to CRAP when Flex Radio inevitably discontinues the 1500 and 3000 like it did with the 5000.  All Flex Radios are bad investments and they will lead to more frustration in the long run.  Flex Radio will not let you say anything negative about their products on their mailing list or their forums.  The only place will you get fair and balanced reviews of Flex is here on eHam.  That is why the Pro-Flex trolls like K5TED and others hate this eHam forum so much.  And they still can't bring themselves to stay away!

Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2053




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2013, 05:38:42 AM »

eHam forums is the wrong place to go for Flex information, as it is completely rotted by anti-Flex trolls who either do not own a Flex radio, couldn't figure out how to run a Flex radio, can't read manuals, can't understand computers

Oh dear, can not you Flex Lovers come up with anything new? Blaming the Flexradio limitations and problems on users that do not understand computers has been done many times here before. Ah yes attack the messengers of Flexradio Facts once again, instead of discussing anything about the Facts.

I know many of the Flexers and ex-Flexers that post here and everyone of them is Computer Knowledgeable. I myself have been using computers since my first TRS-80 in 1978. I started using computers in my hamradio shack in 1979. I have owned Rat Shack Computers,Atari 800/1200s, Commodores,  countless versions of Apple IIs and Macs and PC's beginning with the IBM XT. Before I retired I worked with and on computers every day of work since 1980. I was paid BIG money for my knowledge of computers.

Please do not lie or try to spin the  computer abilities of the posters on this forum.

So, you have attacked my/our knowledge of computers. What is next Ted? Gonna start calling me names again???  That is the Flexradio way after all.

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
WD5ABC
Member

Posts: 37




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2013, 08:33:54 PM »

This sounds like a religious battle but the real answer is to find somebody who has one and try it for yourself or play with one at a Hamfest. Yo do need to be very computer savvy to make it work right.  I've got a 1500 and liked it enough to get a 3000. I waited until they got CW working well before I took the plunge and I still use an outboard keyer in contests because there's still a little delay in the sidetone. Below 20wpm it's fine.

Try one and decide for yourself. Out of the guys who have tried mine about half love it and half hated it. There doesn't seem to be much in between.

73,
Kerry
WD5ABC
Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2053




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2013, 03:50:13 AM »

I still use an outboard keyer in contests because there's still a little delay in the sidetone.

Out of the guys who have tried mine about half love it and half hated it. There doesn't seem to be much in between.

You think it is just your sidetone? HEHEHE, Give a listen on a different RX and come back and report..  Wink Cheesy Cheesy

CW guys , serious contesters, digital ops hate it. The Flexers have to be SSB ops. All others need not apply..

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 780




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2013, 08:39:52 PM »

Which digital modes don't work very well with Flex radios? Please detail the mode and the "problem".

Please refrain from using "CW" as a "digital mode" for example.

Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2053




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 05:13:52 AM »

Which digital modes don't work very well with Flex radios? Please detail the mode and the "problem".

First off, Flexradios do not do FSK, at least my 5K did not and it is NOT supported in the 6000 series. If you have to ask why FSK instead of AFSK you are not a "Real Rtty Ham".

Digital modes do work with Flex radios as does CW. They just do not work well. The problem with the digital modes is they are not built into PSDR or SmartSDR. You have to use an external program like DM780, Flidigi, etc. In addition you are probably running a logger, propo program, DX cluster, maybe Winkeyer, and read eham in your spare moments AND run PSDR or SmartSDR to run the radio. This is overload for 1 computer and even 2 monitors and an old ham.  Smiley Smiley

Also remember the ever present Flexradio enemy - window "Focus".

Ask yourself this:" Many Knobbed radios have digital PSK/RTTY encoders/decoders built into them.Some can even decode CW. Flexradio forces you to use external software. Their radios are controlled by a computer for goodness sake. Why does not PSDR or SmartSDR have the digital encoders builtin to make the digital modes seamless? Why?Huh

I will tell you why. They can barely get their software to do the simple basic stuff, let alone extra goodies like digital mode encoders/decoders...

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 05:16:58 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 780




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2013, 09:56:14 AM »


1. ALL knobbed radios that don't have PSK incorporated will need external software/PC to do PSK. That is the overwhelming majority of existing HF radios.

2. ALL mainstream amateur knobbed radios that DO incorporate only PSK/RTTY will need external software/PC to do other popular digital modes including MFSK, MT63, Olivia, Contestia, Throb, Thor, Domino, JT65, EasyPal, FreeDV, etc.

3. ALL mainstream amateur knobbed radios that don't have integrated soundcards and don't have integrated PSK will need software/PC to operate any digital text, image or file transfer modes. That is the overwhelming majority of existing HF radios.

4. ALL HF radios that require software and a PC to operate digital text, image or file transfer modes will need cabling to interconnect with the PC.

5. Flex radios can be interconnected with a PC using audio cables if you so desire, through the Flexwire port. Why do that, when for the price of a set of properly isolated cables, you can buy a VAC license and have only one connection to the PC?

6. VAC is superior to cabling in both implementation and signal integrity, with the exception of PACTOR modes.

7. ALL HF radios that don't have integrated soundcards and need special cabling to interface to the software/PC CANNOT use VAC and therefore have an inferior signal transfer quality and versatility between receiver and DSP software, with the exception of PACTOR modes.

8. The overwhelming majority of existing HF amateur radios DON'T come equippped with special cabling for digital mode integration with software/PC. Flex doesn't come with a VAC license.

9. The PC used to control a Flex radio is part of the radio, not part of running a logger, propo program, DX cluster, maybe Winkeyer, and reading eham in your spare moments, unless you have the forethought to build a suitable PC for all of this. That said, SmartSDR is not resource intensive like PSDR.

10. No traditional knobbed radios that don't have integrated PSK/RTTY have ANY sort of integrated digital modes. Neither does Flex. That is the overwhelming majority of existing knobbed radios and Flex radios.

11. Flex radios may not be for some CW users, the FSK RTTY user, or "serious" contesters without the resources to own and operate two PC's. Hardly a majority of all amateur radio users.

12. Flex users routinely operate RTTY, PSK, MFSK, Contestia, Olivia, JT65 and all other weak signal JT modes, EasyPal, FreeDX, DRM, MT63, etc.

13. "Real RTTY Ham" is a status that the overwhelming majority of hams aren't really losing any sleep over.

14. The overwhelming majority of existing knobbed radios don't have the brick wall filtering the Flex offers as a standard feature.

15. IMO, cluttering up PSDR or SmartSDR with integrated digital modes is pointless when there are so many free and licensed purpose built digital mode software packages that are routinely updated or appended with new modes.


Have I missed any reasons why the lack of FSK, some forms of CW operation and integrated digital modes aren't deal killers for many prospective radio buyers?

IMO, the advantages of the Flex far outweigh the shortcomings. Your mileage may vary.




If 15 people say "Yes", and three people each say "NO" 5 times, is the consensus considered 50/50?

Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2053




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 10:49:25 AM »

IMO, the advantages of the Flex far outweigh the shortcomings. Your mileage may vary.

It did..........

I think I am going to join the Flexradio Reflector again under the name Flex Lover. The first thing I will do is nominate you for Flexradio Ambassador of the Year.

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 10:58:39 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 780




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2013, 11:34:49 AM »

IMO, the advantages of the Flex far outweigh the shortcomings. Your mileage may vary.

It did..........

I think I am going to join the Flexradio Reflector again under the name Flex Lover. The first thing I will do is nominate you for Flexradio Ambassador of the Year.

LMAO
Stan K9IUQ


Thanks for your support, Stanley. I can't imagine trying to hold a PSK or RTTY qso on the FTDX-3000 tiny screen. Pretty useless for a "Real Digital Ham".





Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2053




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2013, 12:06:51 PM »

t imagine trying to hold a PSK or RTTY qso on the FTDX-3000 tiny screen. Pretty useless for a "Real Digital Ham".

First off, I do not own a FTDX 3000 and if I did the PSK/RTTY screen would be better than what Flexradio offers. Tiny decoding is better than NONE at all.

Second I rarely do PSK, it is for the Newbie digital hams, kinda like shooting fish in a barrel instead of going out on a real lake. Much too easy. Also most PSK hams do not ragchew, they just send their stupid boring Macros that no one wants to read.

RTTY is another story. Try getting in a Big RTTY DX split pileup and see how your AFSK Flex 3000 fares.

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 780




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 01:19:42 PM »

t imagine trying to hold a PSK or RTTY qso on the FTDX-3000 tiny screen. Pretty useless for a "Real Digital Ham".

First off, I do not own a FTDX 3000 and if I did the PSK/RTTY screen would be better than what Flexradio offers. Tiny decoding is better than NONE at all.

Second I rarely do PSK, it is for the Newbie digital hams, kinda like shooting fish in a barrel instead of going out on a real lake. Much too easy. Also most PSK hams do not ragchew, they just send their stupid boring Macros that no one wants to read.

RTTY is another story. Try getting in a Big RTTY DX split pileup and see how your AFSK Flex 3000 fares.

Stan K9IUQ

Big RTTY DX split pileups are not my bag, man. As for how the AFSK Flex fares, it would likely be worlds above any analog radio running AFSK mode, and likely as good or better than most analog radios running FSK mode, since the only really important difference that I know of between AFSK and FSK operation is that most radios do not allow the use of FSK/RTTY filter options in SSB mode.

Flex does. There are no specific hard coded filter/mode setting in Flex. It very "Flex"ible. Any filter, anywhere.

Turn off AFC in the RTTY program. Pinch the brick wall Flex filter down to exactly fit RTTY signal. Enjoy.

The Flex radio, doing AFSK, under PSDR control and properly adjusted, can be as clean or cleaner on transmit than a conventional rig using FSK. For one thing, there's no splatter or clicks to worry about with properly fed and tuned AFSK.

I'm not a "Real FSK Ham", though, so it really doesn't matter to me, and there may be some intricacies of AFSK vs FSK in RTTY that I am not aware of. For the rare occasion (and I mean really rare, like, I've actually had a full RTTY QSO maybe once), that I might want to do RTTY, AFSK will do just fine.

RTTY is something I used years ago to monitor news and utility feeds. It was really cool using that old Microcraft Code Star and the MFJ 722 filter to pull those signals out.

As for PSK being for newbs, I would agree that it is more friendly for hams new to digital than is RTTY. PSK is not a particularly good contest mode compared to RTTY. But, to say that on one hand, categorically, all PSK traffic is macros, is as incorrect as to say that all RTTY traffic is contest exchanges.

PSK occupies much less bandwidth per conversation, and is usable at levels well below that where RTTY stops decoding.

I am curious, though, on why PSK is seen as "easy" compared to RTTY? If that's the case, then it is a shortcoming of RTTY, not PSK.

If the goal is to intentionally inflict hardship on oneself in the process of having a digital QSO, then why not just turn the radios OFF, and use box end wrenches to beat out CW on the radio cases, and see how far you can hear each other without even using RF?
Logged
K0IDT
Member

Posts: 3




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2013, 06:41:47 PM »

t imagine trying to hold a PSK or RTTY qso on the FTDX-3000 tiny screen. Pretty useless for a "Real Digital Ham".

First off, I do not own a FTDX 3000 and if I did the PSK/RTTY screen would be better than what Flexradio offers. Tiny decoding is better than NONE at all.

Second I rarely do PSK, it is for the Newbie digital hams, kinda like shooting fish in a barrel instead of going out on a real lake. Much too easy. Also most PSK hams do not ragchew, they just send their stupid boring Macros that no one wants to read.

RTTY is another story. Try getting in a Big RTTY DX split pileup and see how your AFSK Flex 3000 fares.

Stan K9IUQ
Hey Stan, what modern knob radios have true FSK? You can't tell the difference between AFSK and FSK on the air, both methods can produce crappy signals. Flex not suited for digi modes?
I have thousands of RTTY contest contacts, even have some wallpaper to prove it, and 9BWAS on JT65 so I guess my 'junk' Flex 5k doesn't know it's not supposed to do that. I even broke
down and had a few SSB and AM contacts with it and without exception got comments on the superb audio quality, all unsolicited. Then again maybe the radio is setup properly and it does take
some effort that a few are not willing to put forth. I regularly bust DX RTTY pileups with it too, PSDR makes it easy to see what's going on with the pile and find a hole, barefoot too.

Ron
K0IDT
 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 05:06:33 AM by N2MG » Logged
W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2013, 07:07:27 PM »

 To the OP.....I have most all the Flex bashing morons on ignore now but I have a pretty good idea what's been said on this thread because they are all a broken record and all rehash the same old tired half truths and and out and out lies to try and further their idiotic agenda. Anyway, if as you say, you want to try something different and really are interested in giving SDR a fair shot then a Flex 1500 would be an excellent and comparatively inexpensive choice with which to do so. The biggest limitation it has is the low power. Otherwise you will find great performance especially with the RX  which  blows away the "big three's" knob radios that are anywhere near it in price range and rivals the performance of their mid range  rigs that cost twice to three times as much.  Don't let the comments of a very few disgruntled former users who probably had no business owning  a cutting edge radio in the first place influence your thinking. Actually, I'm surprised most of them can even turn on a radio much less a PC.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
Logged
N2MG
Administrator

Posts: 0



« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2013, 05:10:30 AM »

It almost felt like a vacation, this Flex category being so well behaved the past couple of weeks.  All who visit (and I certainly) appreciate it.

HOWEVER, the personal attacks seem to be creeping in again.  Please refrain from the name calling and address the radio or the substance of the posts. Let others discover the motivational and/or religious aspects on their own.

Mike N2MG
Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2053




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2013, 05:43:34 AM »

It almost felt like a vacation, this Flex category being so well behaved the past couple of weeks.  All who visit (and I certainly) appreciate it.

HOWEVER, the personal attacks seem to be creeping in again.  Please refrain from the name calling and address the radio or the substance of the posts. Let others discover the motivational and/or religious aspects on their own.

Mike N2MG

The only way to get rid of the name calling and personal attacks is to ban all Flexradio owners.  Wink

To stop the attacks I suggest sending stop and desist eham emails to the offenders. Posting here does no good as every Ham thinks you are talking about the other guy.  Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!