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Author Topic: Looking for Windows XP  (Read 13930 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 6688




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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2013, 05:02:32 AM »

The best of both worlds is Windows XP installed into Virtualbox on a Unix type OS.  I have XP on a Virtualbox running on Mac OS X, and it is all I need for those obscure amateur radio programs that are not yet ported to Unix.

We also need to encourage more amateur radio software developers, especially the big ones (KYI) to make software that will work across different platforms.  I heard about this new language called Java invented by a young kid named James Gosling...

Not sure I would call this best of both worlds. Like it or not we live in a WIndoze world. Linux/Unix lacks a universal standard and interface and MAC OS has a very limited following. As far as writing for Java, since MS no longer officially supports Java, it is not installed by default. WIN 32/64 is the platform to write for.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
KE7TMA
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Posts: 472




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« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2013, 12:32:53 PM »

The best of both worlds is Windows XP installed into Virtualbox on a Unix type OS.  I have XP on a Virtualbox running on Mac OS X, and it is all I need for those obscure amateur radio programs that are not yet ported to Unix.

We also need to encourage more amateur radio software developers, especially the big ones (KYI) to make software that will work across different platforms.  I heard about this new language called Java invented by a young kid named James Gosling...

Not sure I would call this best of both worlds. Like it or not we live in a WIndoze world. Linux/Unix lacks a universal standard and interface and MAC OS has a very limited following. As far as writing for Java, since MS no longer officially supports Java, it is not installed by default. WIN 32/64 is the platform to write for.

Windows is decreasingly important in the world of computers.  The only thing keeping it going at this point is momentum and the fact that it comes "free" with new computers.  Linux and Unix has a universal standard, called POSIX, that's been around for decades, and there are several graphical interfaces that could be considered to be standards, that work not only on Unix but also Windows.

It's true that Mac OS has less market share than Windows, but a hundred million OS X machines refute the idea that it's "very limited."

That Java is not installed by default is not a problem, it's a free download and I hope any ham can figure out how to accomplish this.

Win 32 / Win 64 are both obsolete now, as Microsoft wants everybody to code for their new ridiculous touch-friendly UI that debuted to almost universal scorn in Windows 8.  If you don't believe me check out the Windows Store sometime.  Nobody's developing for it but MS.
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 6688




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« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2013, 01:45:05 PM »

The best of both worlds is Windows XP installed into Virtualbox on a Unix type OS.  I have XP on a Virtualbox running on Mac OS X, and it is all I need for those obscure amateur radio programs that are not yet ported to Unix.

We also need to encourage more amateur radio software developers, especially the big ones (KYI) to make software that will work across different platforms.  I heard about this new language called Java invented by a young kid named James Gosling...

Not sure I would call this best of both worlds. Like it or not we live in a WIndoze world. Linux/Unix lacks a universal standard and interface and MAC OS has a very limited following. As far as writing for Java, since MS no longer officially supports Java, it is not installed by default. WIN 32/64 is the platform to write for.

Windows is decreasingly important in the world of computers.  The only thing keeping it going at this point is momentum and the fact that it comes "free" with new computers.  Linux and Unix has a universal standard, called POSIX, that's been around for decades, and there are several graphical interfaces that could be considered to be standards, that work not only on Unix but also Windows.

It's true that Mac OS has less market share than Windows, but a hundred million OS X machines refute the idea that it's "very limited."

That Java is not installed by default is not a problem, it's a free download and I hope any ham can figure out how to accomplish this.

Win 32 / Win 64 are both obsolete now, as Microsoft wants everybody to code for their new ridiculous touch-friendly UI that debuted to almost universal scorn in Windows 8.  If you don't believe me check out the Windows Store sometime.  Nobody's developing for it but MS.

Linux will never reach critical mass on consumer computing. Like it or not we are going to a touchy feely world and Windows is moving that way. Linux cannot even get a standard mouse and keyboard GUI and is lost in touch screen world. Microsoft is developing a new programming language for touch screen world but Win 32 & 64 is alive and well. There is two flavors of Wins 8, one for ARM and one for X86. They new programming is for new ARM CPU code also known as RT and Mobile. Again IMac is a small niche player at best.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
AG6WT
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Posts: 477




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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2013, 09:15:50 PM »

Linux will never reach critical mass on consumer computing. Like it or not we are going to a touchy feely world and Windows is moving that way. Linux cannot even get a standard mouse and keyboard GUI and is lost in touch screen world. Microsoft is developing a new programming language for touch screen world but Win 32 & 64 is alive and well. There is two flavors of Wins 8, one for ARM and one for X86. They new programming is for new ARM CPU code also known as RT and Mobile. Again IMac is a small niche player at best.

Linux is a big player in the touch screen consumer market, far out selling any Windows touch screen devices, and competing head-to-head with Apple's iOS. The Linux touch screen environment is called ANDROID.
Add in all the other consumer devices that run Linux (without advertising themselves as such) like the TomTom GPS device and Roku and you can't honestly say the Linux hasn't reached critical mass in the consumer market.
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W8JX
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Posts: 6688




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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2013, 03:12:47 AM »

Linux will never reach critical mass on consumer computing. Like it or not we are going to a touchy feely world and Windows is moving that way. Linux cannot even get a standard mouse and keyboard GUI and is lost in touch screen world. Microsoft is developing a new programming language for touch screen world but Win 32 & 64 is alive and well. There is two flavors of Wins 8, one for ARM and one for X86. They new programming is for new ARM CPU code also known as RT and Mobile. Again IMac is a small niche player at best.

Linux is a big player in the touch screen consumer market, far out selling any Windows touch screen devices, and competing head-to-head with Apple's iOS. The Linux touch screen environment is called ANDROID.
Add in all the other consumer devices that run Linux (without advertising themselves as such) like the TomTom GPS device and Roku and you can't honestly say the Linux hasn't reached critical mass in the consumer market.

While Android's roots trace back to Linux it is not Linux. As far as Windows is in touch world it is early in its deployment. I can say though that having used Win 8.x on tablets as well as Android and IOS that Win RT blows them away with grace and ability. BTW some GPS devices run on Windows CE and can be rooted and modified if you want to. A tablet running full version of Win 8.x can also run just about any Win 32 software. Lets have this discussion again in a year.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
AG6WT
Member

Posts: 477




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2013, 11:01:34 AM »


While Android's roots trace back to Linux it is not Linux.

Android is several things, primarily the Dalvik VM which runs the GUI and apps, and the Linux kernel which controls the hardware and the VM. Originally, Google forked off of Linux kernel and had their own line of development, pulling in code from the Linux main repository and making their own changes, but not really pushing back their modifications to be integrated back into the main repository.

As of 2012 that's changed and there is now a much tighter relationship between the Linux kernel team and Google's Android team with the goal of unify the two development lines. Google is using the current kernel 3.x line. Even though Android doesn't use the same GNU libraries, X11, and other things that are normally found in a desktop Linux distribution, Android still is a Linux product since by definition, Linux IS the Linux kernel.

As for Linux on the desktop, which I think is what you are really getting at, yes Windows dominates and continues to do so. With Windows installed on every new PC sold it pretty much has a lock on the market. But that doesn't mean that Linux won't become a big player in that space. No one know for certain how may installations there are as Linux is free and there are many distribution sites and peer-to-peer downloads. There is no consistent way to count Linux's adoption, unlike Windows, where you can count sales or activated licenses.
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KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 472




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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2013, 01:32:29 PM »

The best of both worlds is Windows XP installed into Virtualbox on a Unix type OS.  I have XP on a Virtualbox running on Mac OS X, and it is all I need for those obscure amateur radio programs that are not yet ported to Unix.

We also need to encourage more amateur radio software developers, especially the big ones (KYI) to make software that will work across different platforms.  I heard about this new language called Java invented by a young kid named James Gosling...

Not sure I would call this best of both worlds. Like it or not we live in a WIndoze world. Linux/Unix lacks a universal standard and interface and MAC OS has a very limited following. As far as writing for Java, since MS no longer officially supports Java, it is not installed by default. WIN 32/64 is the platform to write for.

Windows is decreasingly important in the world of computers.  The only thing keeping it going at this point is momentum and the fact that it comes "free" with new computers.  Linux and Unix has a universal standard, called POSIX, that's been around for decades, and there are several graphical interfaces that could be considered to be standards, that work not only on Unix but also Windows.

It's true that Mac OS has less market share than Windows, but a hundred million OS X machines refute the idea that it's "very limited."

That Java is not installed by default is not a problem, it's a free download and I hope any ham can figure out how to accomplish this.

Win 32 / Win 64 are both obsolete now, as Microsoft wants everybody to code for their new ridiculous touch-friendly UI that debuted to almost universal scorn in Windows 8.  If you don't believe me check out the Windows Store sometime.  Nobody's developing for it but MS.

Linux will never reach critical mass on consumer computing. Like it or not we are going to a touchy feely world and Windows is moving that way. Linux cannot even get a standard mouse and keyboard GUI and is lost in touch screen world. Microsoft is developing a new programming language for touch screen world but Win 32 & 64 is alive and well. There is two flavors of Wins 8, one for ARM and one for X86. They new programming is for new ARM CPU code also known as RT and Mobile. Again IMac is a small niche player at best.

While Linux may never reach a critical mass on consumer computing (unless you count Android) many amateur radio software packages are already available on it by default.  Ettus Research's USRP development toolchain is Linux-based, and some forward looking radio manufacturers like Elecraft support Linux as a platform.  They also support OS X, which with about a hundred million machines is quite a bit more than a "small niche player."

Getting back to the subject, I do think that for legacy programmers who insist on only supporting Windows, VirtualBox with Windows XP is probably the most reasonable solution.  Since MS seems to want to force everybody into this touch-screen new API / GUI combination, I would expect that most developers who are not already looking to migrate to a more open standard are also not planning to port their work to an entirely new Windows API / GUI combination either.  If you're going to port everything or essentially rewrite your applications from scratch, it makes sense to do it in a way that is platform agnostic.  I can't think of any Windows-only amateur radio software that requires anything newer than XP, and even modern games continue to support it.
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KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 472




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« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2013, 01:41:33 PM »

Linux will never reach critical mass on consumer computing. Like it or not we are going to a touchy feely world and Windows is moving that way. Linux cannot even get a standard mouse and keyboard GUI and is lost in touch screen world. Microsoft is developing a new programming language for touch screen world but Win 32 & 64 is alive and well. There is two flavors of Wins 8, one for ARM and one for X86. They new programming is for new ARM CPU code also known as RT and Mobile. Again IMac is a small niche player at best.

Linux is a big player in the touch screen consumer market, far out selling any Windows touch screen devices, and competing head-to-head with Apple's iOS. The Linux touch screen environment is called ANDROID.
Add in all the other consumer devices that run Linux (without advertising themselves as such) like the TomTom GPS device and Roku and you can't honestly say the Linux hasn't reached critical mass in the consumer market.

While Android's roots trace back to Linux it is not Linux. As far as Windows is in touch world it is early in its deployment. I can say though that having used Win 8.x on tablets as well as Android and IOS that Win RT blows them away with grace and ability. BTW some GPS devices run on Windows CE and can be rooted and modified if you want to. A tablet running full version of Win 8.x can also run just about any Win 32 software. Lets have this discussion again in a year.

The problem with Windows tablets is twofold.  Microsoft is admitting that nobody is buying them, which could be fixed.  The other problem is that while the ARM and Intel Windows 8.x tablets look nearly identical, and are advertised as more or less being similar, they differ in one crucial way:  the Windows RT (AKA ARM Windows) tablets will not run your legacy Windows software.
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W8JX
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Posts: 6688




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« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2013, 01:48:55 PM »

The problem with Windows tablets is twofold.  Microsoft is admitting that nobody is buying them, which could be fixed.  The other problem is that while the ARM and Intel Windows 8.x tablets look nearly identical, and are advertised as more or less being similar, they differ in one crucial way:  the Windows RT (AKA ARM Windows) tablets will not run your legacy Windows software.

I have a RT tablet and do not find lack of support for old apps a problem. I also does not inherit legacy problems too. RT boot up on a little over 300 meg of memory and runs very snappy on only 2 gig of system memory and apps use more efficient code too. RT also comes with Office 2013, Word, Excel, Power Point and Outlook for free. Exceptional battery life too. I have a first gen Dell that upgraded to 8.1 RT and second gen Microsoft Surface RT tablets are much more powerful that first gen and higher res display.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
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