Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tower or Mast - Are they regarded as structures or accessories?  (Read 35740 times)
KW4CQ
Member

Posts: 141




Ignore
« on: September 01, 2013, 12:31:17 PM »

My CC&R document contains no specific references to antennae, towers or masts (polls).  It does say that any "structure" added to the property must have the approval of the architectural control committee.  I can see where a Rohn tower for example with an in-ground concrete base and guy anchors could be called a structure but how about a portable telescopic mast or poll, guy wires and screw anchors, being legally interpreted as an "accessory".  I once heard it mentioned that a mast as I have described it falls under the category of temporary home accessories such as BBQ equipment, lawn furniture, basketball hoops, etc., etc.   Could a defensible case be had for installing a Hex Beam on a 30 foot telescopic mast (ah la field day style) in ones backyard and calling it a temporary accessory?
Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 173




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 03:14:19 PM »

You can get many answers to your question here but those answers (mine included if I answered) don't mean a thing. If you put up any type of antenna and someone in the HOA says you have a non-approved structure, you probably would have a problem. The HOA could elect to sue you for not getting approval of the antenna. In that case you would be faced with paying an attorney to defend you or you could take the antenna down. And even if you took it down, the HOA (depending on the language in the CC&Rs) could demand you pay for their attorney.

Even if you decided to fight the HOA and you won, you would still have your attorney's fees to pay.
Logged
K7JQ
Member

Posts: 343




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 03:22:42 PM »

The only qualified answer to your question will come from your HOA Architectural Control Committee, and how they interpret the rule. Comments from anyone else will just be a speculative guess. Having dealt with HOA's in the past, I think you're being overly optimistic. Then again, this is just a speculative guess :>) Either put one up without asking, or ask permission.....see what happens.

73,   Bob, K7JQ
Logged
N4UM
Member

Posts: 480




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 07:48:58 PM »

My suggestion is to not ask for permission to put up an antenna or to do anything else that might tip off folks in the HOA that you're a ham.  I recommend that you go with some sort of stealth antenna... an indoor dipole, a rain gutter antenna or a flagpole etc.  In Florida our "flagpole law" allows the erection of flagpoles with certain livable restrictions (20 ft. or less in height and not located on an easement).  The Florida law trumps local municipal ordinances and CC&R's of HOAs.  Check to see if your state has a similar law.  If not, I suggest you seek the ACC's permission to erect a "flagpole."  Don 't mention that you might want to also use it as an antenna.  Good luck.
Logged
N3WAK
Member

Posts: 281




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 03:50:31 PM »

I agree with all the comments thus far.  I am a real fan of the "stealth" approach, myself.  I got permission for a flagpole from the developer-managed Architectural Review Committee.  While I like flying the flag, the flagpole was really a subterfuge for a support for parallel inverted vees at night.  Up at dusk; down in the AM.  After awhile, the developer went bust and disappeared, so I stopped taking the antennas down.  If my developer hadn't gone bust, I would have eventually used very small diameter wire for an inverted vee, or a multiband doublet, or simply anchored one end of a long wire to the flagpole (no trees). 

The stealth approach allows an efficient, often full-sized antenna--which I must prefer over a couple of buddipoles or the like.  Go stealth, have fun--and, whatever you do, don't ask permission IMHO.  As they say, don't ask unless you're willing to get "no" as the answer.  Additionally, I suspect you can kiss your tower and hex beam goodbye...but you can still have tons of fun with a stealthy wire antenna. 

73, Tony
Logged
WX7G
Member

Posts: 6210




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 09:10:46 AM »

I agree with N4UM. Don't tell them you're a ham and don't ask about antennas. I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that they will approve any antenna.
Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 173




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 10:42:25 AM »

I’m not advocating asking for permission or not asking. There is a potential downside for not asking and then getting caught.

Some large HOAs contract the management to a management company. If it comes to light that a Ham has an “illegal” antenna, the management company might have an attorney write a letter to the Ham to remove it. Depending on the CC&Rs, even if the Ham removes the antenna, the Ham may be dunned for the cost of the letter. It is entirely possible that the cost be something like $200 or more.

Even HOAs which do not contract for management, the same scenario could occur if an attorney is hired to write a letter.

My only point is that if a Ham is going to put up an antenna without getting permission, the Ham should be aware of the potential downside.
Logged
AC7DX
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 12:34:43 PM »

I agree with N4UM. Don't tell them you're a ham and don't ask about antennas. I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that they will approve any antenna.

Yes, by all means be a jerk and an AH and break the laws. Cry
Logged
W7KKK
Member

Posts: 374




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2013, 07:12:23 AM »

I don't know that it matters what we would consider your support/antenna.
The bottom line is that it all depends on a couple of things to me.
The first is who is in charge of your HOA or committee and the second of course is how hard the neighbors complain when you put it up.
I moved into a managed HOA (like many are today, not managed by the people that live there).
I made a request to put up a 33' vertical telling them of my experience with ham radio and should any problems arise with my transmissions that I would deal with the issue according to the FCC rules. (makes them feel better that I know the rules and will deal with any problems).
I also told them that I would paint the antenna green to match trees still growing in my 10 year old HOA neighborhood and pointed out that trees I have planted on my own property will be taller than the antenna when grown.
Must to my surprise the contractor that manages the HOA approvals gave me permission for the vertical and since then a couple of other hams in my area have requested and received permission for like antennas.
Maybe it's all in the approach or the wording? Maybe I had a sympathetic HOA manager?
All I know is that I had at least two complaints about the vertical right after I put it up but the HOA "committee" took care of the complaints and told them it was approved and that's all that matters.
I think it would be a serious mistake to try to second guess the meaning of the words in your contract and fight them later.
I would rather ask for permission and be prepared to operate stealth if the need be.
Logged
WS4E
Member

Posts: 234




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 12:05:22 PM »

>break the laws.

HOA rules are NOT laws.  They are just a contract.
Logged
W7KKK
Member

Posts: 374




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 01:11:24 PM »

And a contract that you signed has the effect of law unless it violates some other laws.
That has happened in some cases but the HOAs are pretty successful in proving their cases.
And they can and do override state laws in many cases.
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12985




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 02:44:30 PM »

>break the laws.

HOA rules are NOT laws.  They are just a contract.

Yes, just a contract that includes you paying fines and the HOAs legal fees if you fail to abide by the rules that you agreed to. No money - no problem, they'll just place a lean on your property and they'll get paid whenever you or your family sells it.
Logged
N4UM
Member

Posts: 480




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2013, 05:49:49 AM »

Most people are quite selective in the laws they choose to observe.  Drive down the interstate at the speed limit and nearly everybody passes you.  Take your boat out for a weekend ride on the local waterway and see how many boaters follow the "rules of the road."  Rape a 15 year old girl in Montana who then commits suicide and get yourself sentenced to 30 whole days in prison.  Get serious! 

Put up a clandestine wire antenna in your backyard that nobody sees that doesn't reduce anyone's property values and enter the seventh circle of hell? 
Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 173




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2013, 12:04:33 PM »

Most people are quite selective in the laws they choose to observe.  Drive down the interstate at the speed limit and nearly everybody passes you.  Take your boat out for a weekend ride on the local waterway and see how many boaters follow the "rules of the road."  Rape a 15 year old girl in Montana who then commits suicide and get yourself sentenced to 30 whole days in prison.  Get serious! 

Put up a clandestine wire antenna in your backyard that nobody sees that doesn't reduce anyone's property values and enter the seventh circle of hell? 
My guess is that you have never been in a dispute with an HOA over some trivial issue.
Logged
N4UM
Member

Posts: 480




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2013, 12:32:22 PM »

W0MT: "My guess is that you have never been in a dispute with an HOA over some trivial issue."

Good guess! I've lived in and clandestinely operated from a very strict HOA for 4 years now and have NEVER been involved in a dispute (trivial or otherwise) with the HOA.  I have worked well over 200 countries in casual DXing while spending most of my time rag chewing on the digital modes and CW.  The whole point is that if you don't seek permission for an antenna and alert the HOA to the fact that you're a ham, and if you employ stealth techniques - nobody is the wiser and nobody gets hurt.  I neither need nor want a 75 foot tower with stacked monobanders.  If I did, I wouldn't have moved into an HOA in the first place. 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!