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Author Topic: Is SDR Resale Value Like Used Computers?  (Read 60130 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 5752




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« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2013, 11:54:59 AM »


Sdr's are for hams that dont have time. I can get on any band and identify actiivty, make calls and contacts on the mode of my choice(cw) and get back to my life
in a fraction of the time of turning a knob.


Is that before or after you boot your computer? And how about if PC crashes? You can control a modern knob rig with a computer if you want but to say it is faster is foolish because from a cold start I can get on a knob rig and make a contact while your still booting up. 
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All posted wireless using Win 8.1 RT, a Android tablet using 4G/LTE/WiFi or Sprint Note 3.
KE7TMA
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Posts: 471




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« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2013, 03:52:45 PM »


I would guess the sdr stuff attracts people who like to fool with radio, rather then people who just want to talk or operate radio.



Sdr's are for hams that dont have time. I can get on any band and identify actiivty, make calls and contacts on the mode of my choice(cw) and get back to my life
in a fraction of the time of turning a knob.

Thats the joy of sdr, roll on knob boys. push your buttons and talk smack Cheesy Cheesy
As for flex , They are just one of the bunch, the cream rises to the top and thats the Anan, make no mistake.

Greg

Anan looks good. Gets good reviews. Nearest repair center is about 8700 miles, short path..  No thanks.

I don't really ration my radio time out to the point where I feel constricted. It's supposed to be fun, not a guilty pleasure. If it's a weekend and I'm free of other projects or encumbrances, then it's radio time. If not, then no sweat.

Flex is the leading SDR in the world. Make no mistake.

[/quote]

Radio for people who don't have time to use the radio.  Is this anything like microwave cookery?
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KC8IIR
Member

Posts: 73




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« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2013, 03:57:56 PM »

Wow, you dont own a modern computer. Way back when computers took time to boot, this was true. Now modern computers boot in 5 seconds. Really. As for crashes, not even a one. You could not own one or these words would not be spoken. Stan your right on the money

Greg kc8iir
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K5TED
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Posts: 727




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« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2013, 04:07:41 PM »

I agree with Greg on the fat pipe being a better model for now than the thin pipe. If the thin pipe experience relies on flawless, local network level connectivity to be a seamless experience, then it's not really any more useful for me than having the PC hooked directly to the SDR, since I don't have any desire to run my Flex from the front porch over wireless, or from the woodshed over wire, and if I did, there are already ways to do that.

On the other hand, I do like the idea of keeping heavy processing on the FPGA which is a known stable platform on which to deploy new code revisions.

It'll be difficult for any thin client to offer the level of audio routing versatility provided by the VAC connection to the PC. That said, Flex is supposed to be working on a replacement for VAC type functionality. Then we'll see what shakes out..

I think Anan is great, but it's probably an intermediary solution for some, while Flex works out the wrinkles in SmartSDR for others.

Personally, I like the SunSDR direction. Keeping my eyes on that company...

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K5TED
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Posts: 727




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« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2013, 04:08:25 PM »

 Cheesy

I would guess the sdr stuff attracts people who like to fool with radio, rather then people who just want to talk or operate radio.



Sdr's are for hams that dont have time. I can get on any band and identify actiivty, make calls and contacts on the mode of my choice(cw) and get back to my life
in a fraction of the time of turning a knob.

Thats the joy of sdr, roll on knob boys. push your buttons and talk smack Cheesy Cheesy
As for flex , They are just one of the bunch, the cream rises to the top and thats the Anan, make no mistake.

Greg

Anan looks good. Gets good reviews. Nearest repair center is about 8700 miles, short path..  No thanks.

I don't really ration my radio time out to the point where I feel constricted. It's supposed to be fun, not a guilty pleasure. If it's a weekend and I'm free of other projects or encumbrances, then it's radio time. If not, then no sweat.

Flex is the leading SDR in the world. Make no mistake.


Radio for people who don't have time to use the radio.  Is this anything like microwave cookery?
[/quote]
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KC8IIR
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Posts: 73




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« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2013, 05:05:19 PM »

Here is what is odd, they have thin client system that works on the anan. The owner of apache labs has posted videos of the Anan running  on a android tablet, the xperian by sony. They are not advertising this feature. When the Anan is on the network, you can open it with any computer on the network. I have a cheap dell duo core that runs power sdr and work cw in rooms away from the shack.

I don't know about the flex, the one I worked in Canada sounded great. he could have been on the pot Grin Cheesy Wink Smiley

The anan is more proven than the non owner could ever know. I saw a flex 6500 for sale on qth.com, he had a anan100d on his desk. I bet he thinks the flex is better. The other flex guy had a ts990, k3 and a ftdx5k on his desk, he did not know which one to play with.

Safe bet, when a ham has a flex and a anan, and he sells the flex. You put 2 and2 together.

Greg kc8iir
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 5752




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« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2013, 07:46:16 PM »

Wow, you dont own a modern computer. Way back when computers took time to boot, this was true. Now modern computers boot in 5 seconds. Really. As for crashes, not even a one. You could not own one or these words would not be spoken. Stan your right on the money

Greg kc8iir

None of them boot in 5 seconds!!! Some of them will wake up from powered standby in 5 sec or so but takes a bit more to re-establsh links to devices too. As far as crashesvit is only as could as software and I have worked more than one Flex operator that suddenly disappeared for several minutes for crash recovery. Never had my rig crash and need a reboot.
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K5TED
Member

Posts: 727




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« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2013, 11:36:39 AM »

I haven't had my Flex crash in the middle of a QSO yet. Only had it for a bit over a year, so...
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WD4ELG
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Posts: 873




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« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2013, 09:31:54 PM »

Truth be told, I have had my SDR software crash twice since May 2009 during QSO's.  However...let me tell you what happened.

First time it crashed when I was using CW-X keyboard program and I was clicking on it too fast and trying to repeat the memory messages.  I probably hit a buffer over-run.

The second time happened when I was remote-controlling the 5000 using RCFOrb software and tried to change a filter setting while the CW buffer was sending my message.  Not sure what happened, but I have not been able to duplicate the instance.

Keep in mind I have used SDR for almost every QSO since May 2009.  Thousands of hours.  On a dual core pentium from 2008.  Simultaneously running SDR, CW Skimmer, DXLab, DX4Win, Band Master, DDUtil, VAC, VSPMgr, DXAtlas, MixW, CC User, and Outlook and IE.  Not too shabby.
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N2DTS
Member

Posts: 102




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« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2013, 05:59:41 AM »

When I was running the flex 5000's, I started out on an old computer, and had no issues besides delay AFTER I got the rf out of everything.
Its easy to get rf into a computer when you run high power with the antenna's over the house.
It took a while to figure out the grounds and a bunch of snap on filters on everything.
I then got a flex ready computer which worked a lot better, almost no delay, better rf shielding, and I only ran psdr on it, nothing else.
100% stable.

High power rf and computers really do not mix very well though.
Many have a LOT of wires coming out of the computer and the radio, lots of places for RF to get in.

My current setup of a cheap wall mart computer and an sdr-iq is very stable, even at high power, my big rig can hit 3000 watts pep.

Although performance is good, I do not think contesters use sdr because it can be unstable, but I do not contest.
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KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 471




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« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2013, 04:02:55 PM »

When I was running the flex 5000's, I started out on an old computer, and had no issues besides delay AFTER I got the rf out of everything.
Its easy to get rf into a computer when you run high power with the antenna's over the house.
It took a while to figure out the grounds and a bunch of snap on filters on everything.
I then got a flex ready computer which worked a lot better, almost no delay, better rf shielding, and I only ran psdr on it, nothing else.
100% stable.

High power rf and computers really do not mix very well though.
Many have a LOT of wires coming out of the computer and the radio, lots of places for RF to get in.

My current setup of a cheap wall mart computer and an sdr-iq is very stable, even at high power, my big rig can hit 3000 watts pep.

Although performance is good, I do not think contesters use sdr because it can be unstable, but I do not contest.

It's interesting to hear about your experience, because my main issue has been curing the RF that comes FROM computers!  They are usually pretty noisy beasts.  I guess it'd be hard to tell that your computer was generating RFI if you had a transceiver that doesn't work without a computer though.
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N2DTS
Member

Posts: 102




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« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2013, 05:35:21 PM »

The hash has to get out of the computer, and the same methods to keep rf from getting in should stop it from getting out.
I have been lucky, none of the computers I have used generated any noise. I have a non sdr receiver as well, so I can tell.

I did have a power supply for a laptop that I used at work that generated a boat load of hash in my sdr-iq.
No name brand unit made in China.
I have a nice big lcd monitor that is also clean.

I look at computers built for gaming and many have clear plastic panels so you can see the innards, not a good idea for sdr!
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K5TED
Member

Posts: 727




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« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2013, 05:44:26 PM »

When I was running the flex 5000's, I started out on an old computer, and had no issues besides delay AFTER I got the rf out of everything.
Its easy to get rf into a computer when you run high power with the antenna's over the house.
It took a while to figure out the grounds and a bunch of snap on filters on everything.
I then got a flex ready computer which worked a lot better, almost no delay, better rf shielding, and I only ran psdr on it, nothing else.
100% stable.

High power rf and computers really do not mix very well though.
Many have a LOT of wires coming out of the computer and the radio, lots of places for RF to get in.

My current setup of a cheap wall mart computer and an sdr-iq is very stable, even at high power, my big rig can hit 3000 watts pep.

Although performance is good, I do not think contesters use sdr because it can be unstable, but I do not contest.

It's interesting to hear about your experience, because my main issue has been curing the RF that comes FROM computers!  They are usually pretty noisy beasts.  I guess it'd be hard to tell that your computer was generating RFI if you had a transceiver that doesn't work without a computer though.

Not hard at all. You fire up the knob rig side by side on the same antenna but different power supply, and compare. If you see a swath of noise on the SDR, tune there with the knob rig and see if it's there. If it is, turn off the SDR. If it goes away, you know it's the PC or the SDR. If it doesn't, then it's something else. Swap power supplies. Check. Rinse. Repeat.

This is pretty cheap and easy, and goes a LONG way toward getting rid of odd little sounds on the radio..



Not a bad idea to add some ferrites to every incoming line on the outside of the case as well, including the mouse, keyboard, other USB, monitor cable and network cable if you have one. I prefer wireless. The long ethernet cable back to the router is a big antenna. You don't have to use a separate ferrite for each line. Buy big ferrites. Ground your PC case.

Some experts will claim that it's these newfangled SDR's that drive the need for ferrites, however, I've been using them on my gear since the first PC graced my SWL post. Added some more when I started using 500w+ on 2m and 6m SSB 20 years ago.

Just good engineering practice when using PC's in proximity to transmitting or receiving antennas. The PC is an integral part of the radio transmitting and receiving system engineering plan, and should be treated as such.

caveat: It may seem cumbersome to those who have no interest in tailoring the shack to their needs, rather than the reverse.

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AB2YC
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Posts: 53




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« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2013, 04:31:01 AM »

Oh jeez, will K9IUQ's personal vendetta against Flexradio never end? This has been going on for YEARS here. If we listened to Stan we all would be convinced that any Flex rig is worst than Marconi's first radio. If I listened to Stan perhaps my transmitter should be a spark gap and the receiver R-390. There Stan, are you happy now?

Blah blah bad CW, blah blah crappy receive, blah blah bad resale value, blah blah spurs on 160M, blah blah whatever!

Perhaps I am stupid (well I did read Stan's post here so yeah I am a moron) but I never considered the resale value of any rig that I ever purchased. Look any any electronics and very few have a great resale value. I buy my rigs to use and enjoy and my 5000 has given me more pleasure than the IC-740, FT-100 and TS-850 (fully loaded BTW) that I owned in the past combined.

PLEASE STAN FLAME ME KNOW FOR BEING A BRAINWASHED FAN BOY. You know that you want to! Do it, do it, do it NOW! Flame on STAN. You the FlexhatingmanTM! Flex bad, Flex bad Flexb bad!!

By the way I am the #1 fan boy in the FlexFanClub!

Zack Schindler
N8Fnr


You always have those with a personal vendetta against a company... and longer it goes on the less credible they are.
I can find fault with nearly everything I have ever purchased, or I can move on and enjoy life.


That being said, I never buy things looking (or caring) at the resale value. By the time I decide to sell it I figure I've had my fun with it.
I have spent far more on computers over the past 30 years than I have on radios and radios hold their value far more than computers.

I'm also into Reef Aquariums... they make radio look cheap in comparison  Wink




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KC8IIR
Member

Posts: 73




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« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2013, 07:06:48 PM »

Man , what did Stan ever do to you guys? He makes some casual observations and some opinions and instantly you are Stanhaters because you do not agree.
Stan play devil's advocate. He did not like his flex, we get it. But he has a sdr running in a hybrid situation.  I bet if he used the new Anan 100d, we could win him back to the dark side. Just no flex junk (just Kidding, Relax Cheesy Cheesy). Stan is looking at things from a "is it a useable product" standpoint. If you selling dreams of unicorns, rainbows and the fresh smell of laser vision instead of a working radio, Stan is going to eat you for breakfast.

Dig the 6700 out and lets do some fldigi or hrd dm780 psk or rtty. Oh wait that's not finished yet(is it) . This may be what Stan is talking about.
A rig with out a full set of functions.

I have had ssb and cw communications with 6500 and a 6700, I know that works well. I am ok with it not being complete , but I have had no skin in the game.
If you have owned a flex rig and it did not work completely, you would be pissed like Stan when they sold another one in beta mode.

I love all radios, I love all flexes that do and don't work. I bet deep down Stan does too but is unable to share his feeling with you due to being disconnected from his fire wire.

Greg  kc8iir
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