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Author Topic: Is resale value a consideration for you when you buy a radio?  (Read 9993 times)
N1UK
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Posts: 1390




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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2013, 05:20:54 PM »

TS930S bought 1988....    still using it as my main station rig


Mark N1UK
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4393




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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2013, 02:19:46 AM »

There must come a point where as the radio gets older, the $ value goes up.....Look at boat anchor prices. OK, inflation means that there isn't a real profit, but supposing you bought a used HRO 60 in good condition in about 1970 for cents on the dollar of the original price, you could quite likely be selling at a profit today in spite of inflation.

Like buying a Picasso in 1946.....
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K0OD
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Posts: 2533




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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2013, 04:12:11 AM »

Quote
supposing you bought a used HRO 60 in good condition in about 1970 for cents on the dollar of the original price, you could quite likely be selling at a profit

Or your children could be paying some dump to take it. Tell me who is going to want a musty 88 lb HRO-60 in 30 years?  Assuming it could be kept in working order, what could you hear on one then?


I think we're already seeing a decline in boat anchor value as hams from the 1950s/1960s bubble move to smaller accommodations or die off.  I'm not sure I'd want to share a retirement community room with an HRO-60 and KW-1.
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1626




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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2013, 05:41:11 AM »

Tell me who is going to want a musty 88 lb HRO-60 in 30 years?  

Who is going to want a Flexradio 5000 in even 5 years???  Cheesy Cheesy

https://sdrzone.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=11&id=51&Itemid=155&limitstart=6

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 05:44:39 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
G3RZP
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Posts: 4393




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« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2013, 06:57:23 AM »

There are always collectors. How much do people for things to hang on a wall? Or Chinese vases from the 1600s or before? How much could you get for a pristine Ford model T? Or a WW2 Spitfire?
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K5TED
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Posts: 699




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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2013, 07:56:36 AM »

So far this month, 5 Flex Radios that have sold just this past week went for between 75% and 92% of their original price.

On the other hand:

Yaesu FT-2000 commanded only 66% of it's original sale price. FT-950 fared roughly the same.

Icom IC-746 Pros are going for around 60 cents on the dollar.

The Kenwood TS-2000 is holding in there nicely at 75 cents on the dollar.

There's some indication that a number of potential SDR buyers don't rely on hastily erected, purpose built brand slander sites to get information, but instead, possibly tend to listen on the air, read from several sources, and make decisions based on solid data and their own use case.



 






 



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K1CJS
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2013, 08:37:48 AM »

There must come a point where as the radio gets older, the $ value goes up.....Look at boat anchor prices. OK, inflation means that there isn't a real profit, but supposing you bought a used HRO 60 in good condition in about 1970 for cents on the dollar of the original price, you could quite likely be selling at a profit today in spite of inflation.

Like buying a Picasso in 1946.....

Equating a Picasso to a ham radio--even an older one?  Err.... Huh
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K0OD
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Posts: 2533




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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2013, 08:56:24 AM »

Other than SX-88s most boat anchors are common, piled in the basements of untold hoarder/hams. Few HRO-60s have been dumpstered in the past 40 years.

Compare that receiver to other electronics of that era. Only a few old TVs have value. How about collectible vacuum cleaners or crazier yet, collectible room air conditioners or dishwashers? Not everything is collectible.

Just about anything created as a collectible attains little value.  "Limited Edition" Christmas plates have appreciated little even for dates from the 1800s. More recent plates from the war years and the depression are the rarest.

Things that are physically large make bad investments. Pre-WW2 car values have been flat for many years including that Model T, its generation having died out. You don't see much about 50s cars anymore either ('57 Chevys for example). We're now cycling thru the 70s.

Fad collectibles fizzle out. Beanie babies, thank the Lord! Many sports cards. The toy collecting fad. Pearls were incredibly valuable 100 years ago. Virtually every collectible hobby is in decline. I don't know a single kid who collects stamps (which may become obsolete soon). Coin collecting survives mostly by dint of bullion value.

Appropriate analogy to ham equipment might be old sewing machines, a marvel of 19th century tech and artistic craftsmanship. Or old pianos, aside from the rarest Steinways. But zillions of both survive; no one casually tosses a piano or sewing machine. Nowadays both often have negative value.

The really sad reality is that no one wants grandma's piano or grandpa's radio.


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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1626




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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2013, 09:14:43 AM »

The really sad reality is that no one wants grandma's piano or grandpa's radio.


Boy are you wrong. You need to cross that river and go to the Belleville Flea Market the 3rd weekend of every month.

There is a dealer there who restores old radios and does a VERY brisk business. He even has old Communication RXs from time to time and all 100% restored. He sells a lot of granpa's radios. He has been doing this for a couple of years. It will be an eyeopener for you.

I have never seen granma's piano tho. Probably too big to carry to a Flea market.

Stan K9IUQ
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4393




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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2013, 09:17:35 AM »

There is a lot of interest in granpa's  era steam locomotives, and people pay good money to restore them. The UP is even going to restore a 'Big Boy', while main line steam specials are regular events in the UK.
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K0OD
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Posts: 2533




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« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2013, 10:54:55 AM »

A nauseating future for ham boat anchors?

We bust them up with a sledgehammer” "

"[The piano mover] charged the former owners about $150 per piano. The trash site charged him $233.24 for dumping them all."


"The Knabe baby grand did a cartwheel and landed on its back, legs poking into the air. A Lester upright thudded onto its side with a final groan of strings, a death-rattling chord. After 10 pianos were dumped, a small yellow loader with a claw in front scuttled in like a vicious beetle, crushing keyboards, soundboards and cases into a pile.

The site, a trash-transfer station in this town 20 miles north of Philadelphia, is just one place where pianos go to die. This kind of scene has become increasingly common.

The value of used pianos, especially uprights, has plummeted in recent years. So instead of selling them to a neighbor, donating them to a church or just passing them along to a relative, owners are far more likely to discard them, technicians, movers and dealers say. Piano movers are making regular runs to the dump, becoming adept at dismantling instruments, selling parts to artists, even burning them for firewood."

http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2012/07/this-article-made-me-physically-sick.html


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NI0Z
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Posts: 560


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« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2013, 10:58:28 AM »


There's some indication that a number of potential SDR buyers don't rely on hastily erected, purpose built brand slander sites to get information, but instead, possibly tend to listen on the air, read from several sources, and make decisions based on solid data and their own use case.

Excuse me, are you referring to my website with this remark?  Did you even read my post there about how I am likely keeping my Flex radio?

Did you even take notice that the only manufacturer that is represented by two forums for their radios is Flex Radio Systems?

I have even invited Flex Radio Systems to come and participate and asked for information and for a review radio.  Don't mistake balanced commentary for brand bashing.  If you really took time to get your facts straight you would realize how slanderous your remarks above are.

All SDR users, even non hams are invited to use the site and help build the site.  Free blogs are offered and the site doesn't bombard you with advertising.  No radio manufacturers are paying for the site either thus not causing me to become biased or cater to certain vendors.  Yes, the zone is a work in progress because its not highly subsidized like many other sites.  In fact, the only subsizing it gets is donations by its users, the rest and bulk so far is funded out of my pocket.  It will become informative and will cover all SDRs and users that want to come and build it up.  A wiki for SDR terms and knowledge is underway already!  Users are even invited to submit articles and reviews.

So instead of bashing it, why don't you come on over and contribute and help build the Flex forums up there with factual information?  Why not post a blog on your experiences?  Why not post some videos of the 6K series in action?   If you visited the site you would see many there eagerly await news and users of the NEW flex radios.

These comments you made are very disappointing!
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NI0Z
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Posts: 560


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« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2013, 11:47:50 AM »

The real reason this is a big deal in my opinion is that nobody likes loosing money.  If I sold my Flex right now after 22 months of ownership I would loose about $1600.  I don't particularly like that much loss, however, it is what it is and not really surprising. 

The Flex 5000 as a radio came out in 2008. 

Your not going to be able to compare SDR radios to traditional rigs in my opinion because their value wil be more like computers value verses ham radio value.  One needs to know this and rationalize this and the sort of loss it represents in their purchase.

So I bought a 2008 Radio in 2011.  If memory serves me right a Flex with dual RX and ATU used to run around $4500 at one point.  I didn't pay that but lets use that number for a minute. 

So over its 5 years of life it's lost about $2500 or $750 a year or call it 17% a year.

I just bought an Anan 100D at $3K so I would expect a similar loss of $500 per year or $42 a month to own and use it.  Not bad for a state of the art SDR.  My flex if I sold it now would have cost me about $72 a month.  Thinking back on it that is the cost per month I thought it would cost me when I invested in it.  If I keep it that number will trend upwards as I doubt they will go for $1250 next year.  I'd guess maybe $1500 this time next year.

Now, here is my point!  I bought a $5000 computer back in 2008.  It was brand spakng new tech ology at the time.  Anyone want to give me $200 for it?  And there it is!  My 2010 pickup truck, it looses money every year as well.  Unless by good fortune it becomes an antique or something special, I will likely loose most of its value in another 5 years.

So really, my message here is a hard one, I think people just need to get over it!  Live and learn as they say and remember that if you buy an SDR you are really buying a computer, not really a ham radio.

The flex radios have the unfortunate added liability of the FireWire interface.  Anyone having bought one in the last two years complaining needs to look in the mirror and ask themselves why if they are unhappy did they buy a radio with an interface that was already going obsolete?

Lol, come on people, seriously!  Just get over it!

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WY4J
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Posts: 110




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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 12:42:03 PM »

I buy my radio stuff because is something that I will enjoy. Just like cars, guns and expensive bicycles. This is why they are called hobbies. I buy rental houses, stocks and bonds for their resale value. These are called investments and investments help me enjoy my hobbies.
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K5TED
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Posts: 699




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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »

There may be a hidden but important component in the original price vs. resale value and cost of ownership equation.

Loss of simple math skills. Tendency to over-rationalize. Paranoia. Manic fixation on economic consequences. Unreal extrapolations or leaps of illogic with hopes of relevance.

FDR  Flex Derangement Syndrome

Don't let it happen to you...
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