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Author Topic: Don't need SIGNAL REPORT for valid QSO?  (Read 16925 times)
WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2013, 12:45:13 PM »

Some interesting comments I found on the Internet.. I took out the Call signs...

Lot's of misunderstanding, incorrect info out there..


>>I had fun in the North American QSO party last night. The problem is that the exchange does not include signal reports. I'm a fairly new ham but I believe that signal reports are a necessary part of a 'legal' QSO. So can these quick contacts be entered in a logbook and can they count toward an award? Certainly would be hard to get QSL cards!!<<   (Not if the other Ham knows what he's doing and leaves it blank)

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>>There is no legal requirement for a signal report, nor are they required for most awards. In fact, I'm not aware of any award that requires a signal report. If you use ARRL's Logbook of the World, you'll notice that a signal report is NOT part to the required information - only call, date, time, band and mode. In fact, signal reports cannot even be entered on LoTW. The only time items like signal report, grid, zone, etc, are required is when they are specified as part of a contest exchange. Otherwise, the only thing that needs to be exchanged are call signs - everything else (band, mode, time) you already know.

And it's not hard to get QSL cards for NAQP contacts - just leave the signal reports blank.<<  (CORRECT)

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>>Not a big deal. The only time I exchange a signal report is during a contest or if requested.<<  (I PREFER TO KNOW WHEN IT'S SLOW ETC.)

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>>For several decades normally two pieces of data have been required to be exchanged for a legitimate QSO: Callsign, plus one other data point. That could be a signal report, a grid square, serial number, your first name or almost anything.

LoTW has made this even simpler!

One "sprint" I worked years ago, the exchange was callsign and what you ate for dinner.

599 SOUP<<  

(I don't know if this was ever true for general QSO.   I think it was just a misinterpretation.  The variable is TIME and all the other stuff in your log confirms contact.  The card confirms contact.   Two people could send each other totally incorrect info and no one checking the card would know.  The fact that they have a real card from XXXXX, is all the confirmation they would see. THAT MAKES LOTW A MORE SECURE/VERIFIED QSL.. EVERYTHING NEEDS TO MATCH - 30 MINUTES)

----

>>Some stations or contests WILL require you to copy a report. I worked a station on 160 meters operating from a tiny unpopulated island just above Russia, and he required that all QSL's accurately contain the report he gave out. Otherwise he would not count the contact as a valid QSO because too many people try to work him by looking at the DX cluster.<<  

(YOU'D THINK THE RUSSIAN WOULD LOOK IN HIS LOG??? - NO CALL SIGN / DATA....   DOESN'T MATCH / NOT IN LOG - NO QSL.  Sounds either anal or uneducated or both  Grin)

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>>If they responded it means they could hear you. That's signal report enough.<<  (Roger)

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>>Even though there is no signal report as part of the exchange for the January VHF contest this weekend, You still have to log a signal report when using N1MM contest software. It defaults to 59 for the report.  Everybody is 5x9 in a contest. You can still log a signal report if you want to and you can still fill in the signal report on a QSL card you send. Just because you didn't tell him a signal report during the QSO doesn't mean that you can't give him one on your card or in your log.<<<  (THAT'S A GOOD POINT)


-----

>>>I"m sorry.....having a QSO without a signal report will land you in DEEP trouble with the FCC. You will be banished from the ether until the year 3037, with no chance of early parole!  [Insert laugh track here]<<  (True, they don't care, ARRL doesn't care.. only when it's a NET contact might it matter on a card but once it's in LOTW and matched.. it doesn't - so it probably doesn't no matter what..  Grin)

-----

>>Seems some of you had better start practicing giving signal reports before the bands open up to Europe. The most important part of the contact is the signal report, especially for Russians, and it had better be a good one ! They don't like poor signal reports.<<  (Not my problem  Grin)

« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 01:19:34 PM by WH7DX » Logged
WH7DX
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« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2013, 12:44:01 PM »

I've suggested to the editors of QST and CQ magazine to write an article on "What is a Valid QSO?" and to explain how it all works and links together...  How LOTW is more secure than a QSL card because it's been matched.. A QSL card can have incorrect data and a card checker wouldn't know.  Basically everything discussed here.   Something that can be used as a reference instead of going back 10+ years to a confusing article about it having a Call sign and another unknown variable.   Hopefully people won't freak out in the future if they get a QSL card with a blank signal report.  Grin
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G3RZP
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« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2013, 01:05:20 PM »

On QSL, I want date, time (in UTC), mode, band.

Report, requests (e.g first G pse QSL) are generally immaterial as to the use of the card.

I can understand some people may want locator, county, state, 10-10 number etc or WAB square as well. They can be printed on the card.
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WH7DX
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« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2013, 01:22:24 PM »

On QSL, I want date, time (in UTC), mode, band.

Report, requests (e.g first G pse QSL) are generally immaterial as to the use of the card.

I can understand some people may want locator, county, state, 10-10 number etc or WAB square as well. They can be printed on the card.

Roger, the usual stuff for identification should be on the card, and if you're working a NET like Geratol, they need to have the Freq. listed 3.668 NOT 80M because they have a window in the Extra that needs to be used for a valid QSO and QSL card.   They should also have the Signal report on the card for the Card Checker just in case.. they required one during the NET QSO.    However, if the QSO gets confirmed with LOTW its valid as a 80M QSL but for the Geratol NET I believe they need Net Control and QSL Cards for awards.   

If they do publish an article, and I think they will, I hope they get it right.. we don't need to now what a signal report is..  we need to know how it all works and have a valid reference.
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WH7DX
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« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2013, 05:10:54 PM »

Interesting story I recently read...   Still a Valid QSO but not a wise thing to send Internationally...  Grin

From "The Complete DX'r" by W9KNI - fun book to read..

"Sometimes unintended consequences can arise from a QSL card.  The author has certain knowledge of a Mongolian amateur who had his license suspended for an extended period - because a DX'er sent him a QSL with a picture of a nude woman emblazoned across the front.  The Mongolian postal authorities, who also were in charge of licensing, were not amused, considering the received QSL to be pornographic, and for that reason he was QRT for over two years.."

I have a nude QSL card from JI3FYI (no longer active) and BV7GC who is still active to say the least...  Grin

I also noticed this group..

The Naturist Amateur Radio Club...

http://www.qrz.com/db/NU5DE

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WH7DX
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« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2013, 05:58:16 PM »

I had a card for Sudan rejected - it had all the info except my call sign!  Just a blank box. A suggestion was made that I should auction it off in the Dayton flea market....

I received an email this morning from Masa in Japan that a recent QSL card I sent him back - was missing his Call sign.   I knew that was going to happen sooner or later... I try to look everything over but I'm getting older.   Usually I forget to put the Card Sent Date in DX Keeper and catch that soon after..

Told him I'd send him a new card today - which I did.
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WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2013, 03:19:30 PM »

I've suggested to the editors of QST and CQ magazine to write an article on "What is a Valid QSO?" and to explain how it all works and links together...  How LOTW is more secure than a QSL card because it's been matched.. A QSL card can have incorrect data and a card checker wouldn't know.  Basically everything discussed here.   Something that can be used as a reference instead of going back 10+ years to a confusing article about it having a Call sign and another unknown variable.   Hopefully people won't freak out in the future if they get a QSL card with a blank signal report.  Grin

Looks like both magazines will be writing an article on all of this in the next couple of months (based on emails etc.)  I hope it's complete and to the point.   I think it will be a much needed piece.

My Elmer with 40 years experience wasn't familiar with all this (time variable, Net signal reports, LOTW better than a QSL card (I refer to get them in the mail though  Grin

That will do it for me here.   Nothing to add.
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WH7DX
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« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2013, 11:05:22 AM »

I'm working on "IOTA Islands on the Air"  now and noticed that they don't ask for a signal report for their QSL Card Entry...

It's the usual Call Sign, Date, Time, Freq., Mode and they ask for Island Reference # and Island Name.

This looks like a fun group to be a part of.....

http://www.rsgbiota.org/index.php

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AC4RD
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« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2013, 11:24:47 AM »

... From "The Complete DX'r" by W9KNI - fun book to read..
"Sometimes unintended consequences can arise from a QSL card.  The author has certain knowledge of a Mongolian amateur who had his license suspended for an extended period - because a DX'er sent him a QSL with a picture of a nude woman....

1.)  I sure do agree with you about _The Complete DXer_ by W9KNI.  It's a great read!  A great guide for a new ham, and a fantastic learning tool; the writing is simple and direct, and the stories that illustrate Bob's points are always entertaining as well as educational.  I re-read a chapter or three every few months--it's always fun!

2.) A few years ago I got a QSL from an FO that had some beautiful pictures on it, of gorgeous scenery and some pretty girls who didn't have any shirts on. :-)  I don't have to worry about having my license suspended, but I *did* put the card where my wife wouldn't see it.  Wink
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WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2013, 12:23:16 PM »

... From "The Complete DX'r" by W9KNI - fun book to read..
"Sometimes unintended consequences can arise from a QSL card.  The author has certain knowledge of a Mongolian amateur who had his license suspended for an extended period - because a DX'er sent him a QSL with a picture of a nude woman....

1.)  I sure do agree with you about _The Complete DXer_ by W9KNI.  It's a great read!  A great guide for a new ham, and a fantastic learning tool; the writing is simple and direct, and the stories that illustrate Bob's points are always entertaining as well as educational.  I re-read a chapter or three every few months--it's always fun!

2.) A few years ago I got a QSL from an FO that had some beautiful pictures on it, of gorgeous scenery and some pretty girls who didn't have any shirts on. :-)  I don't have to worry about having my license suspended, but I *did* put the card where my wife wouldn't see it.  Wink


I'm reading "Up Two" now.   A chapter here and there..  I can totally picture it when he says they waited for hours in a basic shack with a metal roof in some small town on a border in Africa for Customs and came out the other side soaking in sweat... etc...

-----

 "Up Two - the Adventures of a DXpeditioner" by renowned DX'er Roger Western, G3SXW, is certain to bring you the vicarious thrills of operating from exotic places. Roger's DX'ing endeavors go far more afield than the relatively sanitized isles of the standard winter tourist circuit, bringing us operations from places as diverse as Afghanistan and Tristan da Cuhna.

Some of Roger's operations were keyed to major DX contests, others purely as DX'peditions. Always operating without support from any of the major DX Foundations, Roger has mounted exciting operations from 22 different rare countries. Without exception, these were countries reached by standard commercial travel arrangements, and in most cases hand carrying in the radio equipment needed. Some operations were solo, others with one or more other operators.

Roger details his adventures with licensing authorities, the excitement of land fall on a long sea journey, of bus rides across West Africa, of hostelry owners suspicious of things like antennas, of taxi drivers and of course of the huge pile-ups.

The book is also filled with invaluable advice for others interested in their own DX'peditions; what to take, what to do, problems to avoid, ways to make things work.

This 240 page book spans over 30 years of DX'pedition life experiences. Anyone with an appetite for exotic locations will find tales of wonderment about some very foreign places. Be sure to order your copy today.
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WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2013, 04:06:34 PM »

The new September CQ Magazine (new for Hawaii  Grin) has a 4 page article on what's a Valid QSO - Signal Reports.

I'm glad they followed through and published something on this.

It was a good article but they didn't mention that LOTW doesn't include Signal Report - that was a big surprise to me earlier this year.   I assumed signal reports were a requirement as many do.

A valid QSO is...  (for the record)

1) Call sign
2) Date
3) Time (within approx. 30 minutes with LOTW and 60 with eQSL)
4) Band
5) Mode

I've seen posts about what actually needed to be said?  You should have everything but the Call Sign - So I'm going to go with that as my final answer....   Grin

If you couldn't copy the Signal Report, forgot it, left it blank - don't worry about it.  

Signal Reports are useful and the article mentions and I prefer an honest one - but fine with 59 for DX etc.

I expect ARRL QST to publish something as well and I hope they include a little something on LOTW and the above info.   Good article though.

Note: A QSL Card is assumed to be accurate - there is no cross checking of other data - making LOTW a more secure QSL than a card.  

Now to get them to introduce a World Wide Grid DX Contest..   Grin    They WILL end up doing it.. it's just a matter of time.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 04:34:12 PM by WH7DX » Logged
KE4JOY
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« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2013, 06:30:34 PM »

Having once made the mistake of putting a 47 RST on a QSL card, I now put either a 59 or 599 as appropriate.  The Ham that got the 47 E-Mailed me to berate me for not giving him the 59 he DESERVED, irrespective of the fact that his signal WAS a 47.  After a flurry of E-Mails were exchanged, I ended up filtering out his several addresses and he FINALLY went away mad but, he did go away!

LOL seriously? That's hilarious!  Grin
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WH7DX
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« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2013, 02:58:45 PM »

The article didn't discuss the NETS and how they focus on the signal report to validate the contact because the Call Sign is often known.   

Usually you don't know the call sign and both parties just need to exchange that piece of information and match the other known items later or receive a QSL Card.

The FCC / ARRL or anyone else doesn't care about the QSO / QSL unless you're trying to prove a contact was made.  They just want to make sure it's legal.

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