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Author Topic: Would you tell someone they have a bad fist?  (Read 49345 times)
W1JKA
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Posts: 1631




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« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2014, 05:04:25 AM »

Re: KB1SWY reply #74

Suggested answer: Send what you think is an honest RST according to your hearing and experience, the other operator will either continue the QSO or tell you he has to let the dog out and 73 with you, quite cut and dry.
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W7WQ
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Posts: 72




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« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2014, 05:43:38 AM »

I probably would "suggest" better character formation or spacing, but probably wouldn't tell someone they have a S*** fist.  I use a keyer for qrq cw such as working dx pileups, but like my bug for rag chews.  A guy (using a bug) once told me he wanted to get on and send some "buggy" CW.  I think maybe he was Mr. Lake Erie Swing, but his keying was S***.  Take a breath, relax, think about your doing and slow down.  Sending 35 wpm means nothing if one can't copy it.
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M0LEP
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Posts: 206




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« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2014, 10:36:03 AM »

I am also flabbergasted by the (apparently fairly longstanding) practice of sending "flattering" RST reports.

There are situations (typically DXpeditions and contests) where the operator's likely to send "perfect" RST reports every time, simply to get through the QSOs with least effort, but there are also situations where helpful RST reports are valued. There are also plenty of arguments about the subjective nature of RST reports...
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KB1WSY
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Posts: 724




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« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2014, 12:39:38 PM »

There are also plenty of arguments about the subjective nature of RST reports...

A bit like when the doctor asks you to rate your pain on a scale from 1 to 10....
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M0LEP
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Posts: 206




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« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2014, 06:46:11 PM »

A bit like when the doctor asks you to rate your pain on a scale from 1 to 10....

...on one side, with the folk who trust their S-meter to 7 decimal places on another. Wink
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N4OI
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Posts: 203




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« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2014, 07:24:52 PM »

No, I would not.

How many hams would tell an op on phone that he has a bad accent and ask that he use better diction on the next transmission.  (Of course, being from NC, I am referring to those accents from the NE!  Grin)

The same is true for someone with a "less than perfect" bug fist, or challenging timing between words...

73
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NO2A
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Posts: 769




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« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2014, 07:38:32 PM »

No I wouldn`t for this reason:they were nice enough to answer my cq. This would be like being invited to your neighbor`s house for dinner,and telling them their cooking sucked. I do believe though,that certain hams should listen more to their own sending. Sending perfectly is a skill for sure.
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K8QV
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Posts: 51




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« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2014, 12:48:25 PM »

I have said to other ops that it was hard to copy that fist (your dots and dashes are almost the same duration, no word spacing, etc.). When a problem is made known, a good ham will work on improving. What's the big deal? Afraid to offend some disabled ham who can't send decipherable CW? Sorry, he should try another mode he can handle. If you don't have any teeth you should probably stay away from the mic as well. CLEAR communications is the goal, yes?
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2788




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« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2014, 06:21:51 PM »

I have said to other ops that it was hard to copy that fist (your dots and dashes are almost the same duration, no word spacing, etc.). When a problem is made known, a good ham will work on improving. What's the big deal? Afraid to offend some disabled ham who can't send decipherable CW? Sorry, he should try another mode he can handle. If you don't have any teeth you should probably stay away from the mic as well. CLEAR communications is the goal, yes?


Exactly.  What's the use of learning the code if you don't learn how to send it so others can copy it?  I've been called by guys who have sent their "calls" three times, each time different from the others.  If they can't send their own call correctly three times in a row, they don't know the code well enough to be on the air.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
KD0ACY
Member

Posts: 91




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« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2014, 06:37:34 PM »

Why dosen't someone offer a playback service so enyone woh wanted to check there sending could do so and also offer hel in  correcting any short ccomings.
Mike
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KD0ACY
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Posts: 91




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« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2014, 06:50:51 PM »

Hope you will forgive my first post with all the typos, my light fell off the top of work station in the mid point of the  message.
I am 75 years old and learning code at this point and would value a report on my sending ability and in that I am not a member of a club or even know anyone that is a ham, I think it would be almost manditory that be checked befor operating.
Mike
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PA0WV
Member

Posts: 120




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« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2014, 01:56:00 AM »

Hope you will forgive my first post with all the typos, my light fell off the top of work station in the mid point of the  message.
I am 75 years old and learning code at this point and would value a report on my sending ability and in that I am not a member of a club or even know anyone that is a ham, I think it would be almost manditory that be checked befor operating.
Mike

Mike,

There are different methods.

I designed the Synchroseiner. That device  is transmitting a pangram ; that is for example "The quick brown fox..."
You have to key in the same pace. When your key is up en his virtual key is down or opposite, the sidetone pitch differs, and the difference time is counted in milliseconds. So at the end of the pangram it shows the accumulated difference. You can put that amount  in a spreadsheet in order to watch your progress over time.

Then there is the Seinscope. You just key in with a straight key or a bug the code you want at the speed you want.

He decodes the received text. When your wordspace is over 10 dits he doubles the wordspace in the decoded text. He calculates your fist according to a published formula, and displays your speed, and most important: He displays a probability density function of all the dots dashes and spaces. He dumps the data on a RS232 sub-D connector, the PC receives it and prints on a preprinted award the data just mentioned.

I am not going to publish whatever CW big guns produced on a hamfest, I suppose some of them  do not display their award on the wall of their shack, but the xyl here encourages me to provide you with the example of her efforts


« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 02:12:47 AM by PA0WV » Logged
V73NS
Member

Posts: 83


WWW

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« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2014, 11:23:00 PM »

I would, have, will and will again.

Aside from the sloppy Bugs, the worst offenders are the guys who crank up the weight to where it is total mush ...then remove all the spaces. (I'm not a mind reader) Try to copy that when it's coming with polar flutter and has an RST of 229.

While it may sound good (somehow) to them ...I'll ignore them until they go away.

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WB5JWI
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2014, 12:17:29 PM »

OK, I work a lot of new CW ops with the SKCC. I like it even though it is work. Folks that I KNOW are trying to get better at sending, I do my best to critique accurately and politely. Guys who mistake speed for good CW always get a 'pse QRS'. If it sounds like their problem is that the speed is adding extra dits or dahs, they get a pse qrs.  I HATE mode B keying. I CAN't do it without extra elements and based on experience, neither can a lot of other keyer users.

As to the SKCC, if you have a medical reason for not using a manual keying device, notify the board. We have several members who use keyers or keyboards. You might consider a cootie (side swiper) key as it uses the same rolling motion as the bug/keyer. I have a Vibrokeyer wired to be a cootie that I use some.

If I simply can not get the code and they won't help then I send something like 'LCL QRM 73' and go. I try to send private emails if I have an address. Circumstances dictate the response. Someone sending at 30 WPM with a ton of extra elements is going to get a pse QRS and if that does not work QSD. I suspect they won't know what QSD means either but …..

All of us can get sloppy and careless. If you hear me sending that poorly, PLEASE say so. I'm not offended if you tell me I have a brake light out, why would telling me my code has gone sour offend? I told one ham that his signal was very poor, tone varying, lots of clicks and static and he just vanished. I figured I'd angered him but a few hours later, I received a very nice email thanking me for pointing out the problem. He had an intermittent short in his antenna connection. He caught it because of my report and prevented damage to a rare and valuable boat anchor rig.

My thought is that any CW, regardless of how generated is better than no CW. Accurate CW is ALWAYS preferable to fast CW. So far, I can still use straight keys as well as bugs and cooties. One day it may be a keyer or a keyboard. Regardless, I like CW and I hope I help others to gain skill they want to have even if that means pointing out that they are sending faster than their ability allows.
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