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Author Topic: service awards  (Read 17046 times)
AE7VA
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« on: October 03, 2013, 06:26:38 AM »

I know that in the Coast Guard Auxiliary they are eligible to receive and wear some active duty medals/ribbons and specialty badges.  Does anyone know if any branch of MARS is eligible for active duty awards or badges; for. Example, would a MARS auxiliarst qualify for the now defunct AF Communications specialty badge or similar.  While not a uniformed service like the USCG Aux, how about presentation on a plaque?  Is there any recognition program?
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W1MSG
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2013, 09:23:31 PM »

http://www.uscg.mil/auxiliary/awards/ribbons/  They are far from Active Duty awards! Lets not Forget about the Stolen Valor Act.

73

Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
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W6EM
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Posts: 812




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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 06:52:34 PM »

http://www.uscg.mil/auxiliary/awards/ribbons/  They are far from Active Duty awards! Lets not Forget about the Stolen Valor Act.

73

Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
Both the USCG Auxiliary and the CAP perform their duties selflessly, and for no pay.  Their work in many instances puts them in harms way as does work by active duty and reserve regular military and NG.  Medals and awards are earned just as those by regular and reserve military personnel.

MARS probably hasn't thought about it much, since largely run by contractors.  Besides, no uniforms to put them on anyway.

"In United States v. Alvarez the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on June 28, 2012, that the Stolen Valor Act was an unconstitutional abridgment of the freedom of speech under the First Amendment, striking down the law in a 6 to 3 decision." 
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W1MSG
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 08:30:07 PM »

http://www.uscg.mil/auxiliary/awards/ribbons/  They are far from Active Duty awards! Lets not Forget about the Stolen Valor Act.

73

Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
Both the USCG Auxiliary and the CAP perform their duties selflessly, and for no pay.  Their work in many instances puts them in harms way as does work by active duty and reserve regular military and NG.  Medals and awards are earned just as those by regular and reserve military personnel.

MARS probably hasn't thought about it much, since largely run by contractors.  Besides, no uniforms to put them on anyway.

"In United States v. Alvarez the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on June 28, 2012, that the Stolen Valor Act was an unconstitutional abridgment of the freedom of speech under the First Amendment, striking down the law in a 6 to 3 decision."  


Well you should do a little more research as there is a NEW Stolen Valor Act in place and signed into law. I have exposed over a dozen military frauds in the HAM community, and they are still coming out of the woodwork.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/03/obama-signs-new-stolen-valor-act.html

If you want Active Duty awards join the Military. Both the CAP and the Coast Guard Auxiliary have their own awards system.  MARS could do they same, but they will need to design their own awards.

73,
Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 08:36:46 PM by W1MSG » Logged
W6EM
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Posts: 812




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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 08:18:26 PM »

http://www.uscg.mil/auxiliary/awards/ribbons/  They are far from Active Duty awards! Lets not Forget about the Stolen Valor Act.

73

Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
Both the USCG Auxiliary and the CAP perform their duties selflessly, and for no pay.  Their work in many instances puts them in harms way as does work by active duty and reserve regular military and NG.  Medals and awards are earned just as those by regular and reserve military personnel.

MARS probably hasn't thought about it much, since largely run by contractors.  Besides, no uniforms to put them on anyway.

"In United States v. Alvarez the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on June 28, 2012, that the Stolen Valor Act was an unconstitutional abridgment of the freedom of speech under the First Amendment, striking down the law in a 6 to 3 decision."  


Well you should do a little more research as there is a NEW Stolen Valor Act in place and signed into law. I have exposed over a dozen military frauds in the HAM community, and they are still coming out of the woodwork. 
 

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/03/obama-signs-new-stolen-valor-act.html

If you want Active Duty awards join the Military. Both the CAP and the Coast Guard Auxiliary have their own awards system.  MARS could do they same, but they will need to design their own awards.

73,
Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
Craig:  First off, thank you for your service to our nation.  However, the new law will likely suffer the same fate before the Supreme Court and all of the provisions that do not deal with fraud will be struck down. 

Someone who claims to be a Veteran in order to obtain benefits is already afoul of federal law.  And, it is clearly unlawful to wear a uniform when not authorized to do so.

Free Speech is important, even if what is said or displayed is untruthful and unsettling.

You could just as easily argue that the possession and/or purchase of used military ribbons, badges and medals is illegal as well, unless by the persons who earned them.  Guess I’ll have to toss my father’s as keepsakes as someone might claim by keeping them I’m in violation of the FVA.

MARS, even though now called an “auxiliary” as opposed to an “affiliate,” doesn’t rise to the same status as either the Civil Air Patrol or the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary.  As I said before, they do a great deal of meritorious public service, deserving of recognition.  And, unlike MARS, have uniforms, ranks, etc.  The State of California has what is called the California Military Reserve.  Often called the “gray guard.”  Their purpose is to operate California National Guard facilities when the Guard is deployed and away.  Uniforms and all.  A true auxiliary, not just in name only, as they serve the military.  Unlike a group of hams operating their radios outside the ham bands in search of a mission.

73,

Lee



 


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W1MSG
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 08:54:12 PM »

Thanks Lee,

The latest version of the Stolen Valor act was scrutinized by the High Court prior to the President signing it. I guess he didn't want egg on his face if it was deemed unconstitutional.

Keeping memento's is one thing, but when your wearing them around and spreading stories of your combat prowess and that your records are all sealed blah blah that's a different story. Its not illegal to tell these stories, and its also not illegal for me to get copies of the records and make a public spectacle of them. Last count I have filed 22 Freedom of Information requests, and at present not a single one has confirmed any of their claims.

I'm going to a large Ham Fest this coming weekend and I expect I will see no less than a dozen Prior Special Forces, Navy SEAL, Airborne Ranger, and more that are all BOGUS. Its always fun to ask them a few questions and then tell them they are full of crap.

As far as the Auxiliary organizations, they are not actually entities of the Govt, they are in fact Non Profit Organizations, as is the case with the CAP, and hold no Govt status. Many States have Militia's and State Guards which are separate from the National Guard. 

All I'm saying is you cant have Active Duty awards, if MARS wanted to develop their own awards system it would be Ok so long as they don't try and use Active Duty awards or badges.

73,
Craig
MSG, MP
USArmy Retired
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W6EM
Member

Posts: 812




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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 06:37:53 AM »

Craig:

Wow.  A big problem as you point out.  Thanks for trying to stop it.  Really despicable that some of them doing this stuff are hams.  Drops Wacker behavior down to a whole new level.

I spent 20 years in Army MARS and left when its primary mission to assist and serve active duty service members and their families ended.

In retrospect, MARS ought to create an award for meritorious service by civilian members to military personnel and call it the Goldwater Award in honor of US Senator and General Barry Goldwater, K7UGA and AF MARS member.  As you no doubt know, he made thousands upon thousands of phone patches to and from Vietnam in the '60s and '70s.  I can't think of anything that the tri-service programs do today that could hold a candle to that.

73,

Lee
W6EM/4
Leeds, AL

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W1MSG
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Posts: 91


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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 01:03:41 PM »

I agree with you Lee, that would be a specific award offered to Mars Op's. When I first joined the Army in 1978 I was sent to Korea for my first Duty station. I actually used a MARS set up to call home on several occasions, it was pretty cool. At that time I had no idea how it was being done, it really didn't peak my interest at the time as I was a young 19 year old with money in my pocket and a whole lot of living to do out side the gate of the camp..
MARS is a victim of todays technology, while in Iraq 2006 / 2007 I had a cell phone on the local economy and was able to call home at will. I was also able to use the Internet when not on extended patrols, so the need of phone patches just wasn't there. Its amazing how much stuff has changed in 30 years.

73,   

Craig
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AE7VA
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Posts: 37




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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 01:14:19 PM »

Craig w1msg is incorrect.  As a member of the USCG Aux myself, the auxiliary members are awarded certain active duty medals by local active duty commanders. The list he posted are auxiliary specific but doesn't list the active duty awards.  Auxiliary members don't qualify for every active duty award; only some.  He should read the regulation governing it before speaking.  But I guess army guys only read picture books.  

In my post I'm trying to ask if anyone knows of a regulation or program that covers it...sometimes there are obscure regs out there that are forgotten; such as, AF MARS members are granted access to MWR services on base. I know because I found through significant research the forgotten  DoD Instruction and forgotten AF Instruction (which are still active) and used them to gain access to MWR services on base and at military recreation sites across the country.  

As an active member of the AZ Highway Patrol (see my club on QRZ.com for K7DPS) I would not suggest impersonating and I don't want to give out an award if there isn't a regulation or program covering it.  As the current AF State MARS director for AZ, I have members with over 40 years of service and who operated Goldwater's station during Vietnam; for which they were never recognized.   One guy is 91 now and I don't expect time to be on his side. I do like the idea presented of an AF-issued Goldwater award for service for our veteran MARS members, like a specially designed lapel pin.  I'm not a fan of paper certificates.

Overall, I was wondering if there was an award or recognition they would qualify for similar to the USCG where some active duty medals are awarded to auxiliary members. Membership in MARS has turned over greatly in the last few decades and institutional knowledge has left with them.  As a result, when you ask questions you don't get answers and so you seek out answers yourself.  Asking questions is a part of my research phase.

And while we're here, AF MARS still does provide a service.  The AF MARS Phone Patch net is still operating 24/7/365 and is still providing several thousand air-to-ground phone patches for active duty, reserve, guard and other federal aircraft yearly.  Yes it is a sit in front of the radio type job even with a graveyard shift. Is it a top secret or dangerous job, no.  But those aircraft are using us as they have no other means to get their message through.  In my job with the AZ Highway Patrol, our 911/Radio Dispatchers are equally and highly respected by myself and everyone in the field and we would never put them down as a group who "just sit in front of a radio" as the guys in the field would never be able to do their job without them.

As a side note: AF MARS members are eligible to join the Air Force Communicators and Air Traffic Controllers Association.  http://www.afcommatc.org/ This is an organization similar to the AF Sergeants Assoc. or AF Officers Assoc, VFW etc.  I found this out while doing research on another subject.  Yes, I'm a member now.  From their webpage:
"Our association is comprised of about 2,000 members (Communicators, Data Automation, Information/Cyber, Space Operations, Air Traffic Controllers, Air Field Managers, Maintenance, Engineering and Installation and related support personnel) who have served or are serving in any communications or air traffic control unit. (This includes those who served in the U.S. Army Air Corps) or hold or held a communications, data automation, information/cyber, air traffic control, maintenance, engineering and installation or related support skill set."
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 02:16:10 PM by AE7VA » Logged
AE7VA
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Posts: 37




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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 02:35:16 PM »

W6EM is correct about the hazards of working a mission for CAP.  As such, under federal law, CAP members who die while on a mission are authorized recognition for federal peace officer death benefits. So non-cops can get federal peace officer death benefits, so you never know what exists.  I wrote a research paper for the Human Resources section at my agency in early 2012, I'll have to find it to quote the actual federal code.
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W1MSG
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 04:05:42 PM »

Well Paul at least I was in the Real MILITARY, you are still just a civilian trying to be something you will never be... Good Luck in the Contest . You allude to being a High Way Patrol Officer but we both know that's not true.. Whackers at their best !
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AE7VA
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 05:24:32 PM »

Never said I currently was and you jump to conclusions to fast.  You make assumptions that would indicate you have a poor ability as an officer to properly investigate by asking proper, probing questions.  But since you raised the issue, here is my response.

I am the agency's sole planner working for the agency's Director at the executive level for the Arizona Dept. of Public Safety.  We often just refer to ourselves as the highway patrol as people in other states don't understand what a DPS is.  I'm pretty sure my job is over your head and your education level.  After graduating college in 1997, I went on to work patrol for two law enforcement agencies (one a sheriff, the other municipal).  Then after not wanting to work shift work and on the street anymore, I seriously advanced my education level and left for a significantly better career option at my current agency 12 years ago.    Life at the top of the agency is a lot better than on the street.

I am solely responsible for and oversee all the strategic planning functions for the agency for all subdivisions; such as, highway patrol, criminal investigations, aviation, crime lab,counter terrorism center, emergency management, and all other criminal justice support services. My work is reported directly to the Governor's Office of Strategic Planning and Budgeting and has a direct impact to the agency's funding each fiscal year.  And like I said, I treat the dispatchers with as much respect as I do any other employee of the agency.  I know that the agency will cease to function if any of its parts are no longer there.  As such, all parts of the agency deserve recognition for their contributions to the overall mission.  I take that same philosophy to MARS as I try to make the program stronger here in AZ.

I joined MARS when I was 19 in 1993, because I wanted to give back.  My father is retired AF and used MARS on some of his TDY trips in the late 70s and early 80s to contact us. I didn't go AF as I wanted to see the other world out there.

I'm not looking for combat badges or anything similar that you keep alluding to.  And no, I'm not going to suggest that we be issued the Medal of Honor or Air Force Cross.  I'm simply asking if there is some type of length of (or meritorious) service award or similar or occupational specialty award or similar that might apply under regulations as I've seen it happen in another auxiliary.  Ribbons and awards don't have to be worn; MARS doesn't have uniforms.  But, there are lapel pins for some ribbons and things can be mounted to plaques.  I was asking about a defunct badge as my guys with 40+ years might qualify if there is an allowance in regs.  I just don't know how to fully research that yet...hence the questions here to start my research.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 06:11:58 PM by AE7VA » Logged
W1MSG
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 06:36:31 PM »

Gee I don't know about anyone else but this quote " As an active member of the AZ Highway Patrol " kind of alludes to something you are not? I don't see any other way to take it. I think my 4 year degree will suffice as far as my Education level goes. Your the kind of guy that goes around pounding his chest saying look at Me !! I am somebody !! Well I have done things that most of you see in Movies. If you want to keep taking Jab's at me feel free, but remember your derogatory comment about Army Personnel started it !

As far as awards, the Army only has Civilian Awards for actual DOD Civilians, this is most likely the same for other Military Services. If MARS wants awards then they need to come up with their own award program
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AE7VA
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 07:37:38 PM »

Yes, this may have gotten a bit out of hand.  I got bent out of shape and insulted when your first assumption was that we wanted to pose as special forces or similar group and parade around with a chest full of medals.  The second post of this thread is yours about the Stolen Valor Act!  I never asked for something that wasn't already covered in regulation or instruction!! My original post asked about any programs (regulation/instruction) that covered it based on my experience with another auxiliary!! But you just went off to God knows where on a tirade and then further presented misinformation about the USCG Aux. Read the original post.  And don't talk about the USCG or other service if you are not familiar with their policies or procedures.

My term is work jargon as we refer to everyone as "members of" instead of using the term "employees" and you are then classified as either "active" or "retired".  I think that has something to do with the trend in business where you are not an "employee" but an "associate" like at Walmart.  I use the same term out of habit on our QRZ page when I say "Membership in the club is restricted and consists of only active members of the agency."  That is the confusion there.  

And yes, I know what you do is dangerous.  When I left the street, I kept my first ballistic vest and still have it hanging in the closet to remind me of the dangers faced back then and my responsibilities to my agency now...never forget.  

Thanks for the tip.  I'll have to look more into the civilian DoD awards; which I never thought about before.  Which now clues me in on that for MWR services, MARS members are classified as DoD Civilians to receive MWR services under DoD and AF Instruction.  So maybe there is a connection there.

Anyone out there very familiar with AF civilian awards or my original question?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 08:35:56 PM by AE7VA » Logged
W6EM
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2013, 06:27:43 PM »

.....And while we're here, AF MARS still does provide a service.  The AF MARS Phone Patch net is still operating 24/7/365 and is still providing several thousand air-to-ground phone patches for active duty, reserve, guard and other federal aircraft yearly.  Yes it is a sit in front of the radio type job even with a graveyard shift. Is it a top secret or dangerous job, no.  But those aircraft are using us as they have no other means to get their message through.  ....

Paul:  Thanks for reminding me.  I had forgotten about this.  I stumbled upon a frequency a few months ago where aircraft were making patches through civilian MARS stations to DSN numbers and such.  It did sound strange that civilians would have DSN at their homes and be performing what was heard to be Official Business functions in the patch traffic.  Although certainly not illegal being non-amateur, it does beg the question, why aren't active duty personnel doing such things from base locations instead of civilian MARS members?  There still are quite a few very high powered active duty AF HF base stations around.

I certainly want to thank those AFMARS members still making patches from airborne personnel to their families and visa versa.  Same for NAVMC MARS members doing same for ships at sea.  Although, I think satellite dishes are auto-tracking on such slow platforms, so the Internet is likely always available to them.

73,

Lee  
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 06:47:32 PM by W6EM » Logged
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