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Author Topic: Does an operator actually being there matter to you?  (Read 7700 times)
KY6R
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2013, 07:54:31 PM »

I used to be against remote operations being allowed for DXCC - but now I am for it.
--Snip--

Some of these places might one day be allowed to have a remote station - especially if that station sends some telemetry that is of use to a scientific or environmental use. The remote station could be solar powered and run as a QRP station on trickle charged solar charging. It could be set up next to a remote, satellite weather station.
-Snip--

This would not only keep the "challenge and charm" of the DXCC program, but would also "advance the radio art".

How is this different than working Joe down the road on a 2 meter repeater?
There is no internet service to the island so it's going to have to have an uplink and a downlink frequency.
If some guy in Ohio is using the repeater most of the people are just going to listen on the islands uplink freq and respond back in QRP mode on the downlink freq.  How would you tell if they even made contact with the island.
Plus what if Joe really is your neighbor, how exciting would even an honest remote  contact with Joe really be?




For my examples, you would have to use a satellite uplink and downlink and send encrypted and compressed data (like what we did with DXA!).

BUT - no need to worry. This sort of thing will never happen as long as there are environmental laws prohibiting permanent towers on "Heritage" sites.

I earned Honor Roll with the attitude "only from my own back yard". I kick myself for not running over my buddies house for Glorioso - I might never work that one now . . . or get to HR #1, but I'm actually OK with that plain old Honor Roll from my own back yard was enough.

But I've been a computer programmer since I got out of school in 1981, and so - I am also always open to new technologies.

You know - since it was perfectly legal to work Glorioso remotely from some East Coast station - I could have done that. But for me - that seemed like cheating.

So - I do have mixed feelings. How can this sort of thing be accomodated and not seem like cheating? That one I don't have an answer for - but the technology is really cool. . . .
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W6GX
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2013, 08:23:41 PM »

How can this sort of thing be accommodated and not seem like cheating?

I think there should be a distance limit between the operator and the transmitter.  Something like 100 or 200 miles.  Just imagine having access to multiple transmitters across the U.S....this is happening now.  One's membership to a remote station includes access to multiple stations.  Can't hear the DX on one station?  Just click the mouse to select another station Shocked

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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KE8G
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2013, 06:26:13 AM »

I am curious what your opinion is regarding remote operations is in my circumstances.

I own two home; one in Ohio, the other in Texas.  The Ohio QTH has all the antennas, amplifier, auto-tuner, etc & due to the HOA at my Texas home, there cannot be any antennas.

I operate quite a bit when in Texas; chasing DX & contesting using the Ohio equipment via the Internet.

Do y'all think I am operating "illegally?"  I feel that since it is ALL MY equipment & I am in the same DXCC, it is 100 percent allowed.

Your opinions are welcome.
73 de Jim - KE8G
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KY6R
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2013, 06:33:21 AM »

I am curious what your opinion is regarding remote operations is in my circumstances.

I own two home; one in Ohio, the other in Texas.  The Ohio QTH has all the antennas, amplifier, auto-tuner, etc & due to the HOA at my Texas home, there cannot be any antennas.

I operate quite a bit when in Texas; chasing DX & contesting using the Ohio equipment via the Internet.

Do y'all think I am operating "illegally?"  I feel that since it is ALL MY equipment & I am in the same DXCC, it is 100 percent allowed.

Your opinions are welcome.
73 de Jim - KE8G

I think its perfectly legal with DXCC, so its fine. I also think you have the perfect "use case" example of remote operations. In fact, besides it being "legal" DXCC wise, you get the experience of playing with some fun new technology - which is "advancing the radio art".

Now for those who don't chase DXCC, then there is no question that it sounds like pure fun.

I've always been more of an SWL than a transmitter, so with that setup I would love to see what diversity receive sounds like in stereo - with your Ohio site and some kind of directional antenna system there in Texas (something like that new Array Solutions Apex system - or one of the DX Engineering active receive arrays. Those systems could probably be set up in the back yard and not violate the HOA (?). That's what I would do.
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W6DXO
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2013, 10:15:09 AM »

I'm pretty much an old school guy having been licensed for more than 45 years.

I don't care if I'm working a rare DX station controlled in California or an op swatting flies in a grass shack.

Sure, there's a legitimate romantic ideal associated with an op in a remote location pounding out QSO's on CW
...oh, wait...you don't need to know CW any more do you...

My point is that our hobby has changed and I believe needs to continue to evolve.

I'd rather work a remote station for DXCC credit than wait for that DXpedition that never gets
going because of funding and logistic challenges that can not be overcome. 

I also like the idea of a rare station that really might actually be on the air 24/7 for more than 10 days so I'm not jerking
around my professional schedule for that ATNO.   That's romantic too...up to a point...

If you want to place an asterisk next to my name on the DXCC HR because I worked a station controlled via the internet from
a different entity that's OK with me. 

73 de harry, W6DXO





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W6GX
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2013, 10:23:34 AM »

I think the sentiment from those who posted agree that it's acceptable for a DX to operate remotely.  I tend to agree with that as well.  As for remote operations in the U.S. there basically two camps, one being those having HOA restrictions and the second being those who are paying huge amount of money to bust pileups using remotely controlled contest stations.  I'm ok with someone using their own remote station but I'm not ok with someone using commercial remote stations to bust pileups.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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NU1O
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2013, 01:12:20 PM »

As an oldtimer I was wondering where this "remote" world is going to take us and the implications on DXCC.

de WA2VUY



As an OTer and a #1 DXCC Honor Roll holder I would be interested in reading YOUR opinion on this.  Do you care to share it?
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WH7DX
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2013, 01:54:22 PM »

Limit it to fun and nothing else.  No awards - no credits.  Otherwise you tarnish everything..    Clusters do enough damage with the mob attacks..

$.02
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NU4B
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2013, 02:02:20 PM »

Clusters do enough damage with the mob attacks..



Agreed! I wish I had the money to buy W3LPL and shut it down.

But my favorite is when you are trying to work somebody and some A** spots:   blah. blah, blah...... "not busy". 

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WH7DX
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2013, 02:18:16 PM »

Clusters do enough damage with the mob attacks..



Agreed! I wish I had the money to buy W3LPL and shut it down.

But my favorite is when you are trying to work somebody and some A** spots:   blah. blah, blah...... "not busy".  



I'm not familiar with the story on W3LPL but the part about the spot was FUNNY!!!    Oh boy!   Here they come....

I use it - it's a great tool - but I see what it does... just saying etc.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:20:38 PM by WH7DX » Logged
NU4B
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2013, 02:38:40 PM »

Clusters do enough damage with the mob attacks..



Agreed! I wish I had the money to buy W3LPL and shut it down.

But my favorite is when you are trying to work somebody and some A** spots:   blah. blah, blah...... "not busy".  



I'm not familiar with the story on W3LPL but the part about the spot was FUNNY!!!    Oh boy!   Here they come....

I use it - it's a great tool - but I see what it does... just saying etc.

Well, W3LPL, and its brothers are robotic spot machines. You could be actually DX'ing (as opposed to staring at a computer screen) and find a station you want to work calling CQ. Unfortunately these robot spot machines will most likely detect the station and spot it immediately and its like getting attacked by a horde of locusts. (This would be different from an individual spotting a station - who probably wouldn't until he worked the station first). And the horde of locusts doesn't care what they do or destroy (usually your QSO) in the process.

I was listening to a pileup on TN2MS (which thank God I don't need) yesterday. I guess good operating procedures now include calling on top of the station the DX station is trying to work - continuously. I heard a WA2 station doing this. The TN station tried over and over to make the QSO. Are these people so ignorantly stupid that they can't figure out they are delaying their own QSO? ...... I guess the answer is  - Yes!
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 02:53:49 PM »

For my examples, you would have to use a satellite uplink and downlink and send encrypted and compressed data (like what we did with DXA!).

Well that's not going to happen.  Sending bursts of compressed text data via satellite is expensive, sending 2-way voice data via satellite is beyond any form of reasonable expense.  That would work out to like $2 a contact in sat fee's assuming you could make one every 10 seconds.  So a day with 2000 contacts would be over $4000 worth of satellite fee's.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:02:15 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
KY6R
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2013, 03:05:52 PM »

For my examples, you would have to use a satellite uplink and downlink and send encrypted and compressed data (like what we did with DXA!).

Well that's not going to happen.  Sending bursts of compressed text data via satellite is expensive, sending 2-way voice data via satellite is beyond any form of reasonable expense.  That would work out to like $2 a contact in sat fee's assuming you could make one every 10 seconds.  So a day with 2000 contacts would be over $4000 worth of satellite fee's.

The price right now is $1 a minute - so I agree with you today.

The price might one day fall to a point where it is feasible. What will make it impossible will be the environmental laws prohibiting towers set up - hell - just about anywhere these days - a remote environmentally sensitive "heritage" site - or - a new neighborhood with HOA's and CC&R's . .
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WA2VUY
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2013, 05:28:06 PM »

Looking ahead when there could possibly be rare DXCC entities that are remotely operated, I would not have a high level of personal satisfaction in making such contacts.

DXCC, HR, and the road to no. 1, has been a long journey. More importantly, it is been the journeys that others have taken to far away and fantastic places that have made for memorable contacts.

It's been the uncertainty, not the certainty, of a contact with a rare entity (or country as we used to say) that has also made the journey special. Clearly, remotely operated stations could take much of the uncertainty out.

 





 

As an oldtimer I was wondering where this "remote" world is going to take us and the implications on DXCC.

de WA2VUY



As an OTer and a #1 DXCC Honor Roll holder I would be interested in reading YOUR opinion on this.  Do you care to share it?
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KD8HMB
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2013, 04:44:09 AM »

Due to my location ( midwest near Chicago, IL) and limited antenna setup, I have trouble with Asian contacts. When I heard a QSO from Thailand last year, I jumped on it. Since it was unusually loud and clear I figured conditions were just right and finally had my chance. However, while I was wainting my turn, I looked him up on QRZ and discovered that he was operating remote. He was in Thailand, but the station was in the US  (Arizona or Texas, don't recall now). I decided not to contact him and wait for the real thing.
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