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Author Topic: Windows 8.1  (Read 39065 times)
K2GWK
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« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2013, 05:47:15 PM »

The business world will keep the PC viable for many years to come. My company is now looking at Mac because of Windows 8.

Your company is about to shoot itself in the foot big time and pay a lot more to get less in the end.  Like it or not this is a Windows world not a Mac one.

It's extremely narrow minded to think that Windows is the only operating system out there. If they run into problems they could run Windows the MAC also. All of the applications we use have been available on the Mac for quite some time. I am sure the powers that be are looking at it as it is easier and less expensive for us not to change our way of doing business than to change because of a new Windows operating system.

Not narrow minded at all, I speak from experience. It is a matter of real world comparability. Pick up any PC and you can printer ANY non apple printer USB or wireless. Same with Tablet be it 8.1 full or RT out of the box.  Just try and print to any wireless printer with a Ipad. Not going to happen. Mac is a little better but not much. Is windows perfect, no but you can by any add on device and it will work and hardware is cheaper and cheap to upgrade. I think Apple makes hardware not friendly to non Apple hardware by design so you have to by more Apple hardware and then you hate to switch back to PC world because you have all that $$$ invested in extra hardware that is worthless in PC world. Great for marketing and profit but bad for consumer in end.   

Half the company has gone to Mac already without incident already. I used to be a real PC fan but Windows has not really improved. I find OSX much simpler to use and the suite of software my company uses has integrated seamlessly. We do not use tablets so your tablet point is moot and the printers that we used with windows work fine with the Macs. My company seems to be very happy with the Mac and the integration so far and that is that.
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Guy
Lawn Guyland, New York

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W8JX
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« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2013, 05:02:18 AM »

Half the company has gone to Mac already without incident already. I used to be a real PC fan but Windows has not really improved. I find OSX much simpler to use and the suite of software my company uses has integrated seamlessly. We do not use tablets so your tablet point is moot and the printers that we used with windows work fine with the Macs. My company seems to be very happy with the Mac and the integration so far and that is that.

Sadly what it cost half company to go Mac they could have upgrade whole company with a PC. As far as it Windoze not being any better it is because many are still stuck in the XP mentality of doing things. Win 8x has gone beyond that but many cling to past and try to down grade it to use it the same way. OSx is simpler in many ways but it is also because it is far more limited too just like they are still stuck on a 30 year old one mouse button mentality. As far as tablet, like it or not they are coming. You can get a Win 8x tablet with a clip on key board and basically have a laptop that can easily print to any printer and share via cloud with any Win 8 machine. Not gonna happen with a Ipad. Hey its your companies money and if they want to spend it foolishly they can.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
K2GWK
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« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2013, 06:34:14 AM »

Half the company has gone to Mac already without incident already. I used to be a real PC fan but Windows has not really improved. I find OSX much simpler to use and the suite of software my company uses has integrated seamlessly. We do not use tablets so your tablet point is moot and the printers that we used with windows work fine with the Macs. My company seems to be very happy with the Mac and the integration so far and that is that.

Sadly what it cost half company to go Mac they could have upgrade whole company with a PC. As far as it Windoze not being any better it is because many are still stuck in the XP mentality of doing things. Win 8x has gone beyond that but many cling to past and try to down grade it to use it the same way. OSx is simpler in many ways but it is also because it is far more limited too just like they are still stuck on a 30 year old one mouse button mentality. As far as tablet, like it or not they are coming. You can get a Win 8x tablet with a clip on key board and basically have a laptop that can easily print to any printer and share via cloud with any Win 8 machine. Not gonna happen with a Ipad. Hey its your companies money and if they want to spend it foolishly they can.

Duh.......The integration is ongoing by department. So far the integration has been seemless and the users and IT folks really like it. We are not going to tablet computing. Our applications are graphics intensive. I don't think the company wants it's engineers using AutoCad on a tablet.
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Guy
Lawn Guyland, New York

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« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2013, 07:10:12 AM »

We are not going to tablet computing. Our applications are graphics intensive. I don't think the company wants it's engineers using AutoCad on a tablet.

Trust me its coming like it or not. In a year you will be able to buy a powerful enough Win 8/9x tablet to do it. There was a reason that MS was slow to embrace tablet. Intel lacked proper low power hardware for it and ARM based tablets ruled. Now Intel too is increasing focus on low power high performance chips for tablets and they are even powering new Andriod tablet too because of their Linux roots. With new CPU's you will be able to do things on a tablet that are not possible on a Ipad and never really will be without major hardware and OS changed on it. There will come a time when your engineers will want to be able to pull up Auto Cad on a site visit and tablets will be the venue and not possible in Apple world. Apple is little more of a niche computer and is alive today so MS is not a monopoly. They no longer dominate tablet market and are loosing ground in Phone market too. Apple has had its hey days and past and then crashed and it is coming again. This cycle will repeat because the corp mentality has not changed and cannot adapt to think outside the box as market changes. 
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AG6WT
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« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2013, 07:49:16 AM »


Trust me its coming like it or not. In a year you will be able to buy a powerful enough Win 8/9x tablet to do it. There was a reason that MS was slow to embrace tablet. Intel lacked proper low power hardware for it and ARM based tablets ruled. Now Intel too is increasing focus on low power high performance chips for tablets and they are even powering new Andriod tablet too because of their Linux roots. With new CPU's you will be able to do things on a tablet that are not possible on a Ipad and never really will be without major hardware and OS changed on it. There will come a time when your engineers will want to be able to pull up Auto Cad on a site visit and tablets will be the venue and not possible in Apple world. Apple is little more of a niche computer and is alive today so MS is not a monopoly. They no longer dominate tablet market and are loosing ground in Phone market too. Apple has had its hey days and past and then crashed and it is coming again. This cycle will repeat because the corp mentality has not changed and cannot adapt to think outside the box as market changes. 

FYI, Autocad is already available for iPad and Android tablets (http://www.autodesk.com/mobile-apps). I don't think there is one in the works for Windows Surface. (https://getsatisfaction.com/autocad360/topics/autocad_360_application_for_windows_rt)

I find it odd that you would say Apple can't think "outside the box as [the] market changes". If I recall, Apple was the first to successfully market a computer with a windowing OS and integrated mouse: the MacIntosh in 1984. It was plug-n-play right out of the box too; no fighting with IRQ, DMA, and .bat files. The WYSIWYG software that came with it was ground breaking too. Apple was a leader, and still is, in the touch screen smart phone market. It is a leader in the tablet arena also. Tablet apps are usually marketed for iOS first, Android at the same time or shortly there after, and everything else later.  As far as I can tell, most of Microsoft's current and past offering have been variations or extensions of Apple products.

FWIW, I'm not an Apple fan. If I were head of IT of a corporation, everyone would be running Xubuntu with Open Office as a standard platform. But that's why I'd never get promoted to such a position.

Ray AG6WT
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 07:57:10 AM by AG6WT » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2013, 11:15:08 AM »

FYI, Autocad is already available for iPad and Android tablets (http://www.autodesk.com/mobile-apps). I don't think there is one in the works for Windows Surface. (https://getsatisfaction.com/autocad360/topics/autocad_360_application_for_windows_rt)

While I have a Dell RT tablet and love it, RT is a very small part of Win 8 tablet sales. The surface pro can have up to a low voltage core i5.  Dell, HP, Asus and others offer a I core powered tablet running full win 8. The 4th generation low voltage i3/5/7 CPU's have opened the door as have new quad core Atoms with new core logic that is faster and a average power drain of 1 watt. Just tip of the iceberg of what is to come.

I find it odd that you would say Apple can't think "outside the box as [the] market changes". If I recall, Apple was the first to successfully market a computer with a windowing OS and integrated mouse: the MacIntosh in 1984. It was plug-n-play right out of the box too; no fighting with IRQ, DMA, and .bat files. The WYSIWYG software that came with it was ground breaking too. Apple was a leader, and still is, in the touch screen smart phone market. It is a leader in the tablet arena also. Tablet apps are usually marketed for iOS first, Android at the same time or shortly there after, and everything else later.  As far as I can tell, most of Microsoft's current and past offering have been variations or extensions of Apple products.

The Apple Mac flopped a few years later and only survived due to successful marketing to schools and a 200,000,000 cash infusion from MS in early 2000's when MS was fighting monopoly charges and wanted Apple alive. As far as phones, they were a fad that is loosing steam because competition has caught and passed them technology wise. The most powerful cpu's, highest res screen and big batteries are not on Iphones nor is gorilla glass. Also lack of a modern OS is hurting it too today as it is basically the same. Others are catching and passing apple because they change.

FWIW, I'm not an Apple fan. If I were head of IT of a corporation, everyone would be running Xubuntu with Open Office as a standard platform. But that's why I'd never get promoted to such a position.

Not really a big windoze fan but it is a windoze world on PC like it or not and one day the phone battle in future will be between Andriod and MS with apple a distant 3rd.
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ILDARIN
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« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2013, 12:19:35 PM »

We are not going to tablet computing. Our applications are graphics intensive. I don't think the company wants it's engineers using AutoCad on a tablet.

Trust me its coming like it or not. In a year you will be able to buy a powerful enough Win 8/9x tablet to do it.

I cannot imagine anyone trying to use Autocad or Photoshop on a tablet.

In fact, I cannot imagine anyone doing word processing, database management, or spreadsheet processing on a tablet.

And I don't think any large company is going to put its proprietary data in "the cloud".
Many of them no longer allow their employees to bring flash drives to work.

Tablets and smartphones have their niche; they're ok for web browsing and quick reference.

But they're useless for computing.
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W8JX
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« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2013, 02:06:01 PM »

I cannot imagine anyone trying to use Autocad or Photoshop on a tablet.

Not on a Ipad or a driod to any serious effect but a Win8 tablet with a core i3/5 is more than up to it. They will get even more powerful in a year or two. Today a WINDOZE tablet can match the computing power of a upper end laptop two years ago. Soon they will nearly equal them and add a wireless key board and mouse and you have a "laptop" that can also drive a external display to HD resolution.

In fact, I cannot imagine anyone doing word processing, database management, or spreadsheet processing on a tablet.

Again with a fold up or wireless keyboard and mouse they are laptop

And I don't think any large company is going to put its proprietary data in "the cloud".
Many of them no longer allow their employees to bring flash drives to work.

You do not do it in cloud but you can control what you share in cloud

Tablets and smartphones have their niche; they're ok for web browsing and quick reference.

But they're useless for computing.

Iphone and Ipad are toys at best and Driod is better here but WinDoze is just getting out of the gate and is way ahead of both in potential. Many assume they are same because of apple and droid experiences. In a year or two tablets with folding keyboards will be the in thing to have.
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NN4RH
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« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2013, 04:50:46 AM »

The business world will keep the PC viable for many years to come. My company is now looking at Mac because of Windows 8.

Our IT people took a serious, studious look at Windows 8 and 8.1 . . . Then they started stocking up on spare Windows 7 install disks and replacing our XP systems and the few Vista systems left with Windows 7 systems(they asked us to stop using Vista a couple years ago - stability and security issues) , and upgrading our Macs to OSX 10.8. Apparently what they saw when they looked at Windows 8, they didn't like.  I think they're hoping that the Windows 8.x fad will run its course within a few years, and we just need to hold out with more productive systems until MS comes to their senses.

In our environment each individual can choose to work with whatever system he/she wants. As far as I know, there are still no Windows 8 systems in the division. The overwhelming majority of new computers that I've seen come into my branch and section over the past year have been Mac Pros.  I'm the exception, I've bought several Windows 7 systems for my lab.  I'd say that the engineers and experimentalists tend to go with Windows systems (particular software needs and hardware compatibility for data acquisition and control), the scientists tend to go with Macs, and the computational people with Linux. Clerical & admin staff tend to go with iMacs - a few tried some of the all-in-one Windows computers a year or so ago but they don't hold up very well.


 I can't think of even one engineer or scientist in our entire Division that does any serious work on a tablet or a touch-screen computer.  They'll use tablets for simple things, notes, as organizers, mind-maps, piddling around with various apps, as ELNs, etc. but certainly no serious work.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 05:23:46 AM by WN9HJW » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2013, 09:59:38 AM »

Our IT people took a serious, studious look at Windows 8 and 8.1 . . . Then they started stocking up on spare Windows 7 install disks and replacing our XP systems and the few Vista systems left with Windows 7 systems(they asked us to stop using Vista a couple years ago - stability and security issues) , and upgrading our Macs to OSX 10.8. Apparently what they saw when they looked at Windows 8, they didn't like.  I think they're hoping that the Windows 8.x fad will run its course within a few years, and we just need to hold out with more productive systems until MS comes to their senses.

Resisting change does not make it happen but rather puts you further behind the curve when you finally do change. MS is not going to back peddle so do not hold your breather for that. How we interact with computers is changing and as is the hardware it runs on. Touch screen laptops are gaining traction and I read that all Win laptops will have touch screens sometime next year. Win7x and below is not touch screen friendly at all. At first I too was put off by Win 8 but after living with it for nearly a year on Laptops and a Tablet I like it MUCH better than older OS. Once you learn it, it is not that bad and is really easier about many things too. I suspect that the IT department is afraid of change or having to learn something new. Said part is that as hardware gets more advanced too it is not really supported by Win 7 fully.
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NN4RH
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« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2013, 03:30:55 AM »

It's not "resistance to change". It's being rational about whether the change is necessary or provides any new capability, increases productivity, or is better cost effectiveness.

It's pretty obvious that you've never worked in a large R&D organization.  It's not like a residential situation where you can buy new systems and software just for the sake of being trendy. There's a lot more involved in costs than the price tag on the box, and you have to take into account the impact on productivity.  

Computers are tools, not a way of life.  
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 03:33:09 AM by WN9HJW » Logged
NA4IT
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« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2013, 04:36:36 AM »

Have you heard about the new Windows version coming out? It's called LINUX!
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K1CJS
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« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2013, 04:43:52 AM »

The one thing that the tablets and the other small platforms are being aimed at is the individual--not the corporate entity.  The first thing you notice about all the new tablets is their ability to easily connect to a REAL computer.  This 'change' is simply a way for Microsoft, other software makers, and the hardware makers to wring money out of people.  That's all.  Businesses will continue to use desktop computers, and so will some individuals.

The proof of that?  Simple.  Windows 8 and 8.1 is an OS that was purposely made to accomodate both the new tablet and laptop devices--AND the older desktop computer systems.  If Microsoft was confident enough to force the changeover, they wouldn't have done that--but they did.
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W8JX
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« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2013, 05:33:18 AM »

It's not "resistance to change". It's being rational about whether the change is necessary or provides any new capability, increases productivity, or is better cost effectiveness.

It's pretty obvious that you've never worked in a large R&D organization.  It's not like a residential situation where you can buy new systems and software just for the sake of being trendy. There's a lot more involved in costs than the price tag on the box, and you have to take into account the impact on productivity.  

Computers are tools, not a way of life.  

Do not be so presumptuous on my experience or back ground. I have seen it on all levels and the bigger the group the more its users resist change. I have seen IT groups that desire to do as little work as possible and some that push envelope. Change is coming and you will be left behind if you resist. Surprisingly it was the tablet and smart phone that was the catalyst for this latest change. Prior windows version are not cross platform friendly. This must change or MS will become a has been. Another nice thing about 8 is it actually makes IT job easier in that if you add or replace a computer to a account it automatically pulls data from cloud or corporate server to set it up and even WiFi settings too.

You snooze you loose. BTW this was posted with a RT tablet.
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WB0KSL
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« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2013, 08:26:53 AM »

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated....  W8JX of Borg, er... Microsoft  Cheesy

73 de wb0ksl, John
a microcomputer user since 1975, and HAPPY Apple user since 2007!
Also have a Windows machine with the Diablo OS (aka Win 8 ) - not so happy there  Sad

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