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Author Topic: BEWARE! KK4PTV Paul B Chebi Orange Park FL  (Read 11712 times)
WA8MEA
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« on: November 02, 2013, 01:35:45 PM »

KK4PTV Paul B Chebi Orange Park FL

He will purchase items from you, claim they are not to his liking, and then go directly to PayPal for a refund WITHOUT RETURNING THE ITEM! PayPal always believes the buyer and immediately removes the money.  So he gets a free radio, antenna or accessory; because he gets his money back without returning the item!

I know, I know.  I'm gonna get a sermon from many of you about my use of PayPal.  But seriously, after more than a decade, this is the first real issue I have had with PayPal.

73, Bill
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K1CJS
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 06:37:55 PM »

No, no sermon--but I bet you look at PayPal in a whole new light, don't you!  73!
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WA8MEA
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 07:01:50 PM »

You've got that right, Chris! 

Are there any real alternatives out there?  I haven't been keeping up to speed with the latest over-the-Internet monetary exchange concepts.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 07:54:00 AM »

Not really.  It seems that the older ways are sometimes the best--even if they are slower.  To me, a Post Office money order is still the best, since you can check on it before you ship, and if you cash it at the Post Office, there isn't much chance of it coming back to haunt you.

Also, take pictures and document any identifying marks and numbers.  That way if the purchaser pulls a switch on you, you can prove what you shipped out.

BTW, I found out the hard way too.  73! 
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W4QG
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 04:40:58 PM »

He should not be able to get his money back without providing tracking information and documentation that the item has been returned.
If that happened somehow,  the system broke down. I would immediately contact PayPal customer service. Log into PayPal and go to customer
support.
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WA8MEA
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 09:03:02 AM »

He should not be able to get his money back without providing tracking information and documentation that the item has been returned.
If that happened somehow,  the system broke down. I would immediately contact PayPal customer service. Log into PayPal and go to customer
support.

-----------------------------------------------------
Not the case anymore.  PayPal seems to be giving all buyers the benefit, and all sellers the shaft.  Here's just one complaint from paypalsucks(dot)com - Bill

They have taken money from my bank account and sent it to a buyer just because the buyer told paypal the item was broken. It wasn’t, the buyer kept my item and had over £50.00 returned to him. No matter what I do or say to a buyer that has opened a dispute, its not enough in paypals eyes. Recently a buyer has opened a dispute against me as the item I sent to him in China was smashed. I have been corresponding with the buyer to the point where he has sent me photo’s of the damage and I have claimed for compensation from the Royal Mail. Paypal said this is not good enough on my part and that all money should be returned to the buyer. They insisted the buyer returns the damaged item, at his expense, with a tracking number and when I get it, they will refund the buyer. They have now frozen my account so I cannot continue paying or being paid thru paypal.The item will take over a month to be returned to me. What the buyer does not know is, he complained the item cost over £10.00 to send to him, that I paid half of the postage to send it it to him. The total amount was over £20.00 to send it to China, so he will get a shock when he sends it back to me. I cannot believe that ebay/paypal are allowed to run a business with such shoddy underhand tactics, there is a definite criminal element in evidence.

Here's another PayPal story I just found in a forum:


A stupid buyer is being dishonest and has done a chargeback on the items she bought from me on eBay.  I delivered it in time with tracking information & insurance.

PayPal has held my funds and is still showing the whole thing in process.  I hate how the buyers can take full advantage of honest sellers out there! Fraud, and PayPal is helping such frauds!!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:18:01 AM by WA8MEA » Logged
WA8MEA
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 07:57:36 AM »

I mentioned in the STOLEN GEAR post that he sent it to a wrong address.  PayPal will accept it as the correct address because PayPal has no further functions for me to fight this. (I have gone to the BBB.)  If I don't check-mark the box that says I've received the item, they will automatically close the dispute in his favor!  As I stated in the other forum, if I wasn't an honest person, I could go after a nice rig with the aid and comfort of PayPal's rules!

Further info: I did some research on Mr. C.  Seems his ticket was "red-lighted" for some reason.  Red-lighting is a computer flag that stops an application process, usually because the applicant has a FINANCIAL OBLIGATION to the FCC!  His callsign isn't a vanity, or at least doesn't appear to be.  So I wonder why he owed the FCC money?

I also found him complaining about receiving "spam" from a "blog" on a ham forum.  The dummy signed up for an e-mail list and then can't understand why he is getting all kinds of e-mails in his in-box!  

Oh, well.  But you know, even the alternatives are not without their problems.  This is the first one with PayPal, and I've been with them a decade or more.  BUT... I am afraid that once a lot more crooks get wind of PayPal's "steal friendly" rules, fraud will become more of a problem with PayPal.
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K5TED
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 09:52:54 AM »

From PayPal:

A chargeback, also known as a reversal, is when a buyer asks their credit card issuer to reverse a transaction after it has been completed. It is available only to users who make a payment funded by their credit or debit card.

There are three main reasons a buyer will do this:
1.The purchased item never arrived.
2.The item was significantly different than advertised.
3.Their credit card was used without their permission to purchase the item fraudulently.

Chargebacks are initiated and handled by the buyer's credit card issuer - not by PayPal - and therefore will follow that company's regulations and timeframes. That said, PayPal often plays a role in resolving chargeback disputes.

Here's the problem:

Here's a quick overview of the chargeback process:
1.The buyer requests a chargeback from their credit card company.
2.The credit card company notifies PayPal's merchant bank and debits the funds from PayPal.
3.PayPal places a hold on the seller's funds related to the chargeback.
4.PayPal immediately notifies the seller via email and requests information that could help to dispute the chargeback.
PayPal is here to help sellers resolve - and minimize - chargebacks.


This is good for buyers, possibly bad for sellers. Imagine if you are the buyer and the seller fails to ship your purchase, or it arrives broken or not what you ordered. You'd want the ability to chargeback, no?

What to do if you receive a chargeback:
1.Log in to your PayPal account.
2.Go to the Resolution Center.
3.Respond to the chargeback notice or (check on the status of an existing one).
4.Provide PayPal with the information relating to the chargeback, including all transaction records (such as proof of shipment).
5.The PayPal chargeback specialist will then dispute the chargeback on your behalf and try to recover your funds from the buyer's credit card company.
6.If the credit card company decides in your favor, the buyer will be charged for the transaction and you'll get your money back.
7.If the decision is in favor of the buyer, the transaction will be cancelled and the buyer will receive a full refund.

It's PayPal's mission to help you resolve the dispute as quickly and painlessly as possible, but the process can be lengthy, so you'll need to be patient. It typically takes 30 days for PayPal to dispute the chargeback, and it may take your buyer's credit card company up to 75 days to resolve a chargeback and come to a final decision.


All of this information is published on the PayPal site. It's not a secret. It's the price we pay for using PayPal. The other alternatives are:

Personal Check
Money Order
Western Union
MoneyGram

OR... DO NOT ACCEPT CREDIT OR DEBIT CARD PAYMENTS.

That may limit the number of potential buyers, however, it will ensure you don't get screwed by a chargeback scam.


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N3AEG
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2013, 09:28:20 AM »

I had someone offer to pay for a radio via PayPal and said he could do it as a transfer vs. a payment.  Does that option remove their ability to file a claim with PayPal?

I've gotten to the point where I'll sell on Craigslist or require them to pay by USPS money order.  I've heard a bunch of cases where someone buys something and the buyer claims it's broken or fake.  PayPal gives the buyer his money back and tells them to dispose of the object.

The problem with PayPal is it's only in favor of the buyer and the seller is screwed.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 06:42:18 PM »

I had someone offer to pay for a radio via PayPal and said he could do it as a transfer vs. a payment.  Does that option remove their ability to file a claim with PayPal?

No, it doesn't.  A transfer is simply money taken from the buying users PayPal account (you CAN leave money in it if you want to) and sent to the seller instead of money applied to the account from a credit card to be transferred to the seller.

The buyer loses the credit card chargeback protection when the transfer is used, since PayPal is the only 'money handler' in that instance--there is no credit card banking institution involved.  The claim system is somewhat different, but there still is a claim system supposedly protecting both the seller and the buyer.

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WA8MEA
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 02:24:08 PM »

I feel terrible.  But sometimes you don't really know what is going on behind the scenes.

The family finally got the stuff back to me.  The guy is 82 years "young", but is evidently having some dementia problems.  Even though everything wasn't returned to me in tip-top shape, and a few minor things missing, I gave him a free pass.

My 18 year old son once said that anyone over 80 should be given diplomatic immunity... so they can do and say as they please.  I kinda agree with that... to a point.

73, Bill

P.S. But that still doesn't excuse PAYPAL!
-----------------------------------------------------------
BREAKING NEWS!

You ain't gonna believe this!

No sooner did I end my pursuit of Mr. C. because he was an 82 year old senior with some health issues, and I get a call from PayPal regarding my BBB complaint.  I explained the issue was resolved, and even though I didn't get all my stuff back and some of it wasn't in the best of condition, I was dropping the complaint since the fella was 82 and having some health issues and I was giving it a pass.

They then listened to my rants about how sellers are getting shafted.  He came back with some interesting stuff about how sellers shaft buyers after selling, which I wasn't even aware of!  It was a very interesting, enlightening and cordial conversation.

In the end, the PayPal rep said I've been a great seller for over eight years with ZERO disputes against me, so we (meaning PayPal) are giving you your money back and an extra $25 for your troubles. 

My next question to him was; "WHY does it always take a BBB complaint to get results?" (And I might add, finally an AMERICAN on the other end of the telephone line!)

73, Bill
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 03:23:18 PM by WA8MEA » Logged
K5TED
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2013, 08:06:38 PM »

82 years old with dementia and can operate PayPal. 82 years old with dementia and can operate an internet radio swap forum.

Not buying it.
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WA8MEA
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 01:03:02 PM »

Quote
82 years old with dementia and can operate PayPal.
My Dad is 82 and is at the beginning stages of dementia.  But he can maneuver around on his I-pad like a pro.  Dementia isn't necessarily a 24/7 situation or subject specific.

Quote
82 years old with dementia and can operate an internet radio swap forum.
Actually, he could NOT operate the mail list (I assume that's what you meant by swap forum).  He thought he was getting spammed by a blogger.  This probably was after a forgetful moment, where he signed up for the radio mailing list and then plum forgot.

Quote
Not buying it.
He is 82, I was able to 100% confirm that fact.  So, on that basis alone, I gave him a free pass.  However, the ultimate blame goes to PayPal.  And as long as they gave me my money back and $25 for my troubles, I forgive them and as Sgt. Preston of the RCMP would say; "Well King, this case is closed."
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VE1GAT
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2013, 10:06:41 AM »

One should get free rubber gloves with a PayPal interaction.
Record your calls to them, they lie with impunity, it's what they pride themselves on "trust science" (like creation science)
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