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Author Topic: New to HF - First Radio: TS-590 vs FTDX-1200?  (Read 32646 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 5489




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« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2013, 05:28:02 AM »

There may be a link there but FCC is a bit to blame to because it allows the sale of amp that can greatly exceed legal limits and makes fasle asumption that ham will use them properly.

What a load of crap. You can buy a car that greatly exceeds the speed limits. Who to blame? You can buy a gun that can kill someone. Who to blame?

The owner is responsible to use anything in a responsible and legal manner. Misuse can not be blamed on any regulatory agency. Take a look in the mirror - there is the blame.

Not my mirror. There was a time when FCC enforced rules. By encouraging the sale of amps that can run illegal power the limit is determined by pocket book not rules. 

The down hill slide really started when they removed code requirement and turn ham radio into a bit of a legal high powered CB.

Oh dear. This is even a bigger load of B.S. than your first statement. Blame the Morse code? Where do you get this kind of thinking?Huh

I am not surprised by your comment as you are a bit out of touch at times. The real reason for the code removal was to make it far easier to get a ticket so manufacturers could increase sales and profits. Wake up. I have been a ham for 44 years and I am a 20 wpm Extra and I have seen a change in the nature of bands since no code came in.   
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2013, 05:40:10 AM »

I am not surprised by your comment as you are a bit out of touch at times.

I have been a ham for 44 years and I am a 20 wpm Extra and I have seen a change in the nature of bands since no code came in.   

You are a Newbie ham in my world. I am starting my 54th year of ham radio. The change in hamradio is due to many things and the lack of CW knowledge is not one of them.

Knowing CW does not make a superior person or ham operator as your comments here on eham constantly demonstrate...

Stan K9IUQ
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1619




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« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2013, 01:28:40 PM »

Way off topic (as usual) but keeping with the current trend I have to agree with K9IUQ's statement "Knowing CW does not make a superior person or ham operator" but most non CW hams if honest will admit to a small amount of envy of those that do even though CW is not required, just the same as myself being a little awed and impressed by some of the Technician class boys who homebrew Microwave rigs/antennas and bounce signals off the moon to each other.
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1626




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« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2013, 05:27:14 PM »

I have to agree with K9IUQ's statement "Knowing CW does not make a superior person or ham operator"

 just the same as myself being a little awed and impressed by some of the Technician class boys who homebrew Microwave rigs/antennas and bounce signals off the moon to each other.

I have known many hams in my long Ham career. Some of the smartest and nicest hams I have known were Technicians. OTHO the worst ill mannered Hams always seem to be Extras who think they know it all. Ham class means little. There are very smart and talented Hams at every Class level. Many older experienced hams Ham feel superior over hams that are newbies or a lower class level Ham. Invariably their first argument is if you do not know cw you are not a good ham. These Hams always bring up the Myth of knowing CW makes good ham ops. This kinda thinking merely demonstrates what kinda of Class the Older Ham possesses.   Wink

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 05:31:08 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
WD4ELG
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Posts: 863




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« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2013, 09:41:26 PM »

Although off topic, I agree with Stan's comments.  Anyone who thinks he/she is better than someone else, for ANY reason, in our hobby or out of it, has issues.  May we strive to NOT try to look down on others. 
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W8JX
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« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2013, 06:02:37 AM »

Way off topic (as usual) but keeping with the current trend I have to agree with K9IUQ's statement "Knowing CW does not make a superior person or ham operator" but most non CW hams if honest will admit to a small amount of envy of those that do even though CW is not required, just the same as myself being a little awed and impressed by some of the Technician class boys who homebrew Microwave rigs/antennas and bounce signals off the moon to each other.

I disagree in that having to know CW sets the bar a bit higher and made you work harder to get your ticket and appreciate it more. Myself I started with a crystal controlled rig and a Novice ticket in 1969. Then went to a General in early 70's and Advanced in 80's and Extra in early 90's. The 20wpm barrier took some time for me to get over as I stalled at 16wpm or so for many years until I learned to listen for words and not letters and then jumped to 25wpm. It used to be that you had to work for a ticket but know it is much easier. Is a Tech or General less of a person than a old school Extra? No. But, the old school operators do tend to have a different perspective on things and more experience especially given that the 20wpm was dropped many years ago.
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2013, 07:46:08 AM »

I disagree in that having to know CW sets the bar a bit higher

Why set the bar higher making a ham learn the Morse Code? This is a mode that the majority of hams never use. I have lost track of the number of Advanced hams who have told me they will never upgrade to Extra class because the Advanced class tells other Hams  they know the Morse code. These very same Hams never use CW, and probably could not send CW now if their life depended on it.

Getting rid of CW requirements was a smart thing to do and the USA was one of the last countries to do so. Knowing CW only has meaning to old hams living/clinging to the past. In today's Ham world Morse Code has little value beyond the enjoyment some hams derive from using it.

I can hear the oldtimers screaming "CW can get thru when no other mode can." Baloney. Most digital modes work just as well or better than CW for "Getting Thru".

Disclosure: I had to learn the Morse Code in order to get a license. I still use CW on an almost daily basis.

Stan K9IUQ


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W8JX
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Posts: 5489




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« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2013, 08:54:11 AM »

I disagree in that having to know CW sets the bar a bit higher

Why set the bar higher making a ham learn the Morse Code? This is a mode that the majority of hams never use. I have lost track of the number of Advanced hams who have told me they will never upgrade to Extra class because the Advanced class tells other Hams  they know the Morse code. These very same Hams never use CW, and probably could not send CW now if their life depended on it.

Getting rid of CW requirements was a smart thing to do and the USA was one of the last countries to do so. Knowing CW only has meaning to old hams living/clinging to the past. In today's Ham world Morse Code has little value beyond the enjoyment some hams derive from using it.

I can hear the oldtimers screaming "CW can get thru when no other mode can." Baloney. Most digital modes work just as well or better than CW for "Getting Thru".

Disclosure: I had to learn the Morse Code in order to get a license. I still use CW on an almost daily basis.

Stan K9IUQ




Heck Stan why not do away with license all together and power limits too? Many ignore them as pocketbook sets limits for many these days. Removing code was for one true reason only. It was to better commercialize the hobby for more profit which it did. While some were able to get tickets that could not before the real winners were the OEM's making equipment.
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2013, 10:26:56 AM »

Heck Stan why not do away with license all together and power limits too?

Removing code was for one true reason only.

I never suggested that. IMO hams should only be tested on things that directly pertain to the safe and legal operation of a Hamradio Station. We do not need to be tested on the Morse Code or how to fix a radio or what does a capacitor or resistor do. In fact most of the electronic theory test should be eliminated. (Almost) No one fixes their own radio any more.Few hams build equipment.

Why should hams be required to have this knowledge when we will never use it?

Let me put it in simpler language so that even you can understand it.

We have Driver Licenses so we can drive a car safely. Do we need to know how a combustion engine works? How to drive stick shift? Change a tire? Do a brake job? Of course not. Drivers are tested on the Rules of the road so that they and others can drive and operate a vehicle safely.

The majority of Hams just sit around ragchewing, telling the same old stories and complaining about everything, particularly Obama  to their old ham friends. Many just forgo being on the air and come to eham forums to complain and tell stories.

No electronic knowledge is needed, no morse code needed to operate a ham radio. Operating Hamradio today is almost as easy as watching TV. There is little knowledge needed. Hams need to know FCC regulations and safety practices and little else.

I also see no problem with increasing ham op numbers in order to create profits for everyone who is involved in the creation and selling of ham equipment. As you pointed out it creates profit. It also keeps many Americans working. Profits and working Americans are good. Nothing wrong with that at all. Creating a bigger Hamradio market benefits all hams. More, better equipment is developed and we have many more choices for ham equipment.

Stan K9IUQ
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W8JX
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« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2013, 02:01:52 PM »

No electronic knowledge is needed, no morse code needed to operate a ham radio.

Tey used to call that CB radio and you see how that went...

I also see no problem with increasing ham op numbers in order to create profits for everyone who is involved in the creation and selling of ham equipment. As you pointed out it creates profit. It also keeps many Americans working. Profits and working Americans are good. Nothing wrong with that at all. Creating a bigger Hamradio market benefits all hams. More, better equipment is developed and we have many more choices for ham equipment.

Not really. Most rigs are designed and built overseas so few jobs are made but a few investor make more profit off it so it really benefits a few not many as you suggest. As far as better rigs that too is debatable because so rigs are pretty cheaply made to support the CB ham.
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2013, 02:50:50 PM »

few jobs are made

Send that quote to employees at TenTec, Flexradio, Elecraft, DXE,HRO,AES,Gigaparts and on and on. Yeah, don't forget the workers at UPS,FedEX,and the USPS who get out radio stuff to us. Don't forgot all those people with jobs spend $$$$ because they have Jobs, so send the quote to all the people they spend $$$ with.

Stan K9IUQ
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1619




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« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2013, 05:10:46 AM »

Re: K9IUQ  reply #55

Maybe that's where the term "Global Economy" came from. Everyone along the daisy chain benefits economically to a certain extent, with the only exception generally being the RETAIL end purchaser.
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W8JX
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Posts: 5489




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« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2013, 07:34:14 AM »

few jobs are made

Send that quote to employees at TenTec, Flexradio, Elecraft, DXE,HRO,AES,Gigaparts and on and on. Yeah, don't forget the workers at UPS,FedEX,and the USPS who get out radio stuff to us. Don't forgot all those people with jobs spend $$$$ because they have Jobs, so send the quote to all the people they spend $$$ with.

Stan K9IUQ

Lets see, Flex is on life support and has few employees, TenTec too. Elecraft is a small niche seller. DXE, HRO, AES and so on have added very few jobs from it. As far as shippers, ham radio is such a small fraction of shipments it does not really add jobs. Their growth is from online sales from ebay and amazon and so on. 

You should really get your ducks in a row better stan.

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K9IUQ
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« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2013, 08:36:39 AM »

You should really get your ducks in a row better stan.

I give up with you W8JX, your opinions are "odd", you are NEVER wrong, and always have to have the last word. Go for it....

Stan K9IUQ
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 2082




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« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2013, 02:49:30 PM »

You should really get your ducks in a row better stan.

I give up with you W8JX, your opinions are "odd", you are NEVER wrong, and always have to have the last word. Go for it....

Stan K9IUQ

I find W8JX to be a pretty smart guy and a generous guy but I have to agree, that need to get in the Last Word is really frustrating.  

I really have no idea how older Hams expect the hobby to continue if there is a constant beratement of new Hams!  Was this the case in the 1960's?  Did all the new Hams get treated like garbage by the old hams back then?  

I think some of the older Hams just don't get it.  You guys grew up in a time when Ham radio was cutting edge technology but in todays world most people see it as a total waste of time to invest thousands of dollars to do something that Skype can accomplish for free.   Even funnier is the amount of hams that I hear end a QSO by saying "hey you guys want to meet up on Skype"

  I have been involved in many hobbies and all of them treated new members like gold but in ham radio it's the opposite, it's really amazing to see a hobby have such distane for it's new members, especially since it's those new members that are making all the new Atnos possible and it's those new members that have saved all your equipment manufactorers from going under.  They are also the ones that most of you can thank for your new Radio or Amp since they are the people who directly or indirectly purchased your old equipment and made your new toy possible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 02:54:01 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
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