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Author Topic: New to HF - First Radio: TS-590 vs FTDX-1200?  (Read 34370 times)
K9MHZ
Member

Posts: 397




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« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2014, 12:13:33 PM »

Someone mentioned looking at the FTdx-3000 instead of the 1200.  I own neither radio, but just looking at several periodicals of late has been interesting.  QST discretely compared the 1200 and 3000 in a discussion about receiver upconverting vs. downconverting, and it did subtly steer the reader toward the 3000 for good reason....but, in their very typical non-direct way.  (Life member here, and supporter, FWIW).

Also, the latest RSGB issue reviewed the 3000, and was not shy about reporting on some poor numbers when a close signal (within 5 KC?, can't recall) is present.  They were also not thrilled with some of the menu layouts....where to select power levels, etc.  They did conclude by stating that it's a very good radio on balance.  One thing I give the Brits a lot of credit for is to not fall for the overdone praise and flowery language that's very common in American culture (and ARRL reviews) for some reason.  You can really notice it on here when the strangely brand-loyal zealots of any stripe post their own very non-specific praises of "their brand" while trashing the other brands with similar ignorance.  They have no idea how silly they're coming across.

So, if the OP hasn't decided yet, maybe compare the 590 with the 3000 instead, after researching receiver performance specs, etc?  Personally, I think both rigs look really nice.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:26:06 PM by K9MHZ » Logged
NZ4ZN
Member

Posts: 30




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« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2014, 03:50:31 AM »

So, if the OP hasn't decided yet.....
Good advice, but the OP made his decision in mid-December. The rest of the thread has largely been unrelated to the thread title.
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ZENKI
Member

Posts: 916




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« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2014, 09:12:13 PM »

The point is good and bad radios can be determined by making objective measurements..  Hams unfortunately want to continue to believe in subjective techno babble that has little to do with science. We notice  that some of the worst performing radios on the planet are recommenned when the hard measurements say different.

If you quickly wanted to sort the good from the bad look at the phase noise performance on RX and TX at 1khz signal  spacing offset. Since you cant hear through transmitters and internal receiver phase noise how  can one radio be better than the other when its phase noise performance on both RX and TX is worst. This is before we start looking at the other receiver dynamic range numbers. See you can quickly catch an emotional brand emotional junky making rubbish recommendations when you quickly look at the phase noise performance.  Thats the laws of physics and some hams seems to think that their ears can hear through the flaws of the radios hard wire performance.
The truth is out there if you take the time to try and understand what the RSGB, ARRL and Sherwood figures are telling you. Despite this hard truth we still have hams speaking utter BS by recommending the worst radios on the planet and telling others that they better than brand X version 2 when this is not supported by the data.

Look at the phase noise performance of the TS590S now anyone who suggests that the  FTDX1200 or FTDX3000 is a better radio needs a reality check. The phase noise performance and the reciprocal mixing performance puts the TS590S way ahead of these 2 radios. In fact the phase noise performance of the TS590S is actually better than the K3 at close signal spacing. I can go and on, but if you want to study the facts and figure you can work out what is a really better radio by taking the time to understand what the measurements are saying. You then would not have to listen to the clueless CB brand box junkies preaching utter nonsense.
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KE7TMA
Member

Posts: 471




Ignore
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2014, 10:11:01 AM »

The point is good and bad radios can be determined by making objective measurements..  Hams unfortunately want to continue to believe in subjective techno babble that has little to do with science. We notice  that some of the worst performing radios on the planet are recommenned when the hard measurements say different.

If you quickly wanted to sort the good from the bad look at the phase noise performance on RX and TX at 1khz signal  spacing offset. Since you cant hear through transmitters and internal receiver phase noise how  can one radio be better than the other when its phase noise performance on both RX and TX is worst. This is before we start looking at the other receiver dynamic range numbers. See you can quickly catch an emotional brand emotional junky making rubbish recommendations when you quickly look at the phase noise performance.  Thats the laws of physics and some hams seems to think that their ears can hear through the flaws of the radios hard wire performance.
The truth is out there if you take the time to try and understand what the RSGB, ARRL and Sherwood figures are telling you. Despite this hard truth we still have hams speaking utter BS by recommending the worst radios on the planet and telling others that they better than brand X version 2 when this is not supported by the data.

Look at the phase noise performance of the TS590S now anyone who suggests that the  FTDX1200 or FTDX3000 is a better radio needs a reality check. The phase noise performance and the reciprocal mixing performance puts the TS590S way ahead of these 2 radios. In fact the phase noise performance of the TS590S is actually better than the K3 at close signal spacing. I can go and on, but if you want to study the facts and figure you can work out what is a really better radio by taking the time to understand what the measurements are saying. You then would not have to listen to the clueless CB brand box junkies preaching utter nonsense.


Phase noise is a minor component in the overall performance of a modern receiver.
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KE2TR
Member

Posts: 134




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« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2014, 09:25:23 PM »

If you buy a radio because how one sample does at someone's lab instead of how it work's in REAL LIVE Operating it is a sade day. I did that two times and was not happy for what were rigs on the top of someones reciever list. First was the K3 and the 590, nice rigs but in real world conditions on the low bands which I operate allot DXing I found these radio's not up to par though the 590 I felt was the better of the two were the RX/TX audio on the K3 was terible IMO. I ended up with the FTDX3000 and owned the 590 for a few weeks with both radio's side by side, I found the Yeasu better. As far as the 3000 vs the 1200, well once you place the options onto the 1200 that brings up the price plus its not a real time fish finder on the 1200. The 3000 seem's to have better numbers in blocking from what I have seen in the lab reveiws in qst and it does have sharper roofing filters in the 3000 for CW. To me I feel its worth the extra bucks but if the fish finder is not a big deal and you are not a big time cw op the 1200 would end up saving you money. Both Yaesu's have no none issues with ALC overshoot but the 590 still has reports still coming in so Kenwood hasn't fixed that yet. I will give Icom credit they seem to have nailed there alc overshoot issue on the 7410 but you gotta buy there roofing filters for sharper SSB selectivity, if they were thrown in that would be in the mix as well.
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KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 2160




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« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2014, 01:50:57 AM »

IMHO it comes down to four things when choosing a rig.

1) how much money can you spend, I mean absolute limit !

2) What group of rigs fall into that range and which of them have ergonomics that you like.
After all if it frustrated you to use the radio what's the point?

3) once I  have that list in place I start to look at the specs for each candidate and start to rank them.

4) Lastly I see if I can try them out, if this is not possible I try to read as many user reviews as possible, especially the 3 star kind.

After that I weight the factors and choose.
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