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Author Topic: FT5ZM Funding and the Future of "South Oceans" DX-peditions  (Read 6970 times)
KY6R
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« on: November 22, 2013, 04:31:40 PM »

First of all - the team on FT5ZM have all upped their ante - and have increased their personal cost from 10K to 12K ++, so - I can only hope you have donated generously so these guys don't get "dinged" again. I have - directly and via clubs and foundations that total over $200.00. I wish I could do more - but I can't.

FT5ZM is a harbinger of what is to come for such remote DX-peditions, and FT5ZM is not even south of the "Roaring 40's"!

We have entered a new era, where such entities may never be activated again - at least on a large scale. Forget about access - and complaining about the US F&W - that's child's play. COST will be the limiting factor.

The biggest hope I have is that "two people in a sailboat" actually activated Heard island in days or yore. I expect DX-peditions are soon going to look a lot like Tomi and George and a lot less like VP6DX . . . .

I'm thinking Heard, South Sandwich, Bouvet, Kerguelin, Crozet, etc, etc, etc
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W2IRT
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2013, 04:43:20 PM »

Amsterdam is proving that it certainly is possible to do a good DXpedition from the southern oceans, despite the high costs. Most of the 13 I still need are down there and I think sooner or later that teams will indeed activate these, but not with the frequency we've seen in the last 10 years. I'm really kicking myself now for missing the two VP8 activations by the Microlite Penguins, plus I also need Crozet, so I really hope these do see activity, as well as the planned 2015 operation from Heard, which is the one that will probably put me on the Honor Roll.

Given the state of the U.S. economy, however, I do believe we'll see more multinational operations run by groups out of Europe or Asia, where large sums of money are easier to come by. Now, if I should ever happen to win MegaMillions or PowerBall, I do indeed plan to fund a couple of major operations <grin>.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
KY6R
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 05:36:45 PM »

There are two routes:

PILES of MONEY (er, wishful thinking)

Two people in a sailboat - with the "gusto" it takes to cross the "roaring 40's" and then access islands with gale force wind blowing snow and slippery seal dung . . .

Its been dung before . . .

Makes KH5K (Kingman look like childs play - heh heh) . . .
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N6PSE
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 08:16:22 PM »

There will always be rare DX, but with rising transportation and regulatory costs, there will be even less frequent activations of the rare & costly destinations.

Peter, please double check your perception of Dxpedition funding sources. The vast majority comes from North America, who gives more than their share. You might want to review the study by N1DG on the NCDXF website.

At every DXpedition I'm involved with, in our spare time we discuss how to approach and activate the truly rare ones.  Like you, we have dreams and goals and want to realize them from both sides of the dream.
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W2IRT
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 09:23:29 PM »


Peter, please double check your perception of Dxpedition funding sources. The vast majority comes from North America, who gives more than their share. You might want to review the study by N1DG on the NCDXF website.

I'm not talking about the guys in the pileup giving $10 or $20 with their QSL, I'm thinking of organizers who can afford to drop $15k a person and take 6-8 weeks off work. And I'm also thinking of the DLs and Is and Fs who can pull this kind of thing off more easily. And the Russians, of course, who can probably get into a lot of interesting places we Yanks can't (I'm remembering that nice chat outside the contest super suite in Dayton with you, me and the other unnamed gents). I'm looking at the driving forces behind many of today's major DXpeditions, including where you are at the moment, the S2 team, the XR0ZR team and so on. Sure there are American-led operations but I believe those will drop off and hopefully new money and fresh blood from EU/Asia/UA will come in and take its place.
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KY6R
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2013, 06:29:42 AM »

One thing I can say with experience - especially being very involved with TX5K, T33A and to a much lesser extent ZL9HR and VU7AG, is that the wants of "The Deserving" far outstrips the cost of these DX-peditions.

There are other discussions about "Remote", "Kosovo", etc, but they pale in comparison to whay we will soon start experiencing - that some places are just simply too expensive to get too.

The only idea I have come up with is to send smaller teams for longer periods of time - or look for very good sailors who can cross the "Roaring 40's" and do it the way it was done in years gone by.

The problem with this of course - is that the DX community is aging - who would be able to say sail to South Sandwich and scamper onto that snowy volcanic plug and do what these guys did (VP8SSI - 1992) . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5B2oo9-Sjw

Here is how they activated Heard Island in 1982:

http://www.hidxa.nlk.nf/

I think we will see a return to such DX-peditions - but who will be "the younger set" who can pull this off? It ain't easy . . . and still wont be cheap - since a chartered boat is most likely to be required.

I also think every band and mode will become a thing of the past. As I understand it - many DX-peditions of this "vintage" only operated a couple of bands and modes. Some just 20M SSB and or CW....... and ATNO's only will become a new discussion that we will be having.

I think DXCC HR #1 is now a thing that will become much, much harder to achieve.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 06:55:13 AM by KY6R » Logged
N5PG
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2013, 08:31:28 AM »


The biggest hope I have is that "two people in a sailboat" actually activated Heard island in days or yore.


Got the book, it was only a sailboat 'coz they ran out of fuel  Grin
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N5PG
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 08:38:35 AM »


I also think every band and mode will become a thing of the past. As I understand it - many DX-peditions of this "vintage" only operated a couple of bands and modes.


Fine by me, who needs every band & mode anyway. A large proportion of my "rare" ones are from a single Q followed by that long wait for the card Smiley
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WH7DX
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 12:27:47 PM »

I don't "expect" any problems picking up FT5ZM.   When they beam north (not sure what antennas they're bringing) they'll be right in my LP zone coming through Australia / Africa.   Picked up a solid Maritime 120 south of ZD8 this morning. 

If they beam to the North West to NA it will be harder.

It's interesting that I can come through LP into NA so well but the guys working in AF are difficult to hear.  Perhaps it's their antenna direction into NA or EU for some?   I think it's also a SSB thing because I was able to work 3DA0ET on 17 and 20m RTTY without much effort but no luck with most Africa on SSB.    Really need to set some time to get into CW - I think that would really increase my QSOs because of the signal strength.

Should be fun.
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EI2GLB
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 01:27:00 PM »

Maybe if a lot of these bigger groups didn't treat EU like a disease we might give more donations,

Sure there are more A holes in EU than everywhere else but there is lots of DXers here too that don't cause QRM and want to have as good of a chance to make a Q as a guy in NA or JA

Trevor
EI2GLB
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WH7DX
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 01:43:32 PM »

Maybe if a lot of these bigger groups didn't treat EU like a disease we might give more donations,

Sure there are more A holes in EU than everywhere else but there is lots of DXers here too that don't cause QRM and want to have as good of a chance to make a Q as a guy in NA or JA

Trevor
EI2GLB

Trevor you're not a disease!!    Grin    Wish you well!!

I think it's all related.. if you look at who donates crap when the world needs it..  it's the U.S. by huge numbers...  it's not the muslim world..  and it's not Democrats..  just look at how much our current leaders donated prior to take top positions.  Biden is a cheap SOB.  It's Christians and that means usually tilted to conservative / Republicans.   That's just a fact.......

I think Charity and DX Donations are related...

http://www.american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/a-nation-of-givers
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 01:47:52 PM by WH7DX » Logged
NU4B
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 01:55:25 PM »

Maybe if a lot of these bigger groups didn't treat EU like a disease we might give more donations,

Sure there are more A holes in EU than everywhere else but there is lots of DXers here too that don't cause QRM and want to have as good of a chance to make a Q as a guy in NA or JA

Trevor
EI2GLB

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,93056.0.html
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N2NL
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 02:13:21 PM »

Maybe if a lot of these bigger groups didn't treat EU like a disease we might give more donations,

Sure there are more A holes in EU than everywhere else but there is lots of DXers here too that don't cause QRM and want to have as good of a chance to make a Q as a guy in NA or JA

Trevor
EI2GLB

Trevor,

I agree with your assessment.  I think it is safe to say that there are at least twice as many hams active on HF in EU than NA.  Example in point:  KH2L and I can get on 12 or 15m any given local morning and maybe will work a handful or a few dozen NA during a weekday.  We can get on that same local evening when the same bands are open to EU and have a massive 2Khz wide pileup in a matter of minutes that only goes away when propagation does.

Lots of those guys who call non stop simply don't know any better.  There is a YouTube video posted by someone in EU who was proud to have worked me - enough that he posted a video of it online.  The video shows him calling non stop, even while I am transmitting!  I chalk it up to inexperience and a lack of mentorship (elmers).

There is more jamming, ETC coming out of Europe.  Again, when you have more than twice the activity, you have twice the problem children.  Also, I believe alcohol abuse is more prevalent in E EU - which results in more problems.  The US has plenty of problem children as well but the majority hang out on 14.313 and the 75m pig farmer nets.
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N2NL
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 02:19:46 PM »

I also believe that Europeans are very nationalistic, which is why it appears that donations are down.  The Italians may not support an American DXpedition but they are the main supporters of I2YSB and their many DXpeditions to Africa.  Just one example I can come up with.  I am curious who fronted most of the costs for the 7O6T DXpedition because it had a Russian majority contingent.  Sure most donations may have come out of the USA but did the UAs cover the majority of costs out of pocket?
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N5PG
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 02:47:49 PM »

This is N1DG's presentation on the subject of DXpedition financing, particularly the Southern Ocean places.

All DXers should read it. If possible go see him present it in person and you'll get some eye popping background tales too  Grin Grin

 http://ncdxf.org/misc/N1DG-DXpeditioncosts-Dayton2012.ppt

Slide 20 is a good summary, for VP8ORK in this case but pretty typical overall.

73

Did a rummage, here's a pdf of his article on the same subject:
http://www.mvdxcc.org/pdf/NCDXFFinanceDXpedition.pdf
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 02:55:41 PM by N5PG » Logged
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