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Author Topic: FT5ZM Funding and the Future of "South Oceans" DX-peditions  (Read 8111 times)
KY6R
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Posts: 3291


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« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2013, 06:28:36 AM »

eHam needs "Thread Hijacker Repellent".
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K7KB
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Posts: 618




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« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2013, 06:35:18 AM »

Back on topic, I guess what I find depressing right now is that the funding level for FT5ZM is only at $283,000 of their goal of $450,000. Now I'm not sure if this is the goal they wanted to have before departure, or overall. If it's overall they have a chance to make it after the DX'pedition as many DX'ers don't bother donating until after a QSO is secured. But if it was a departure goal, then they really need the help. I wish I could donate more but with getting ready for retirement and my new toy purchase, I just can't. Besides, there were a bunch of other DX'peditions this month where I sent a donation.

John K7KB
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W6GX
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« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2013, 07:42:20 AM »

eHam needs "Thread Hijacker Repellent".

Reading this thread is akin to clicking a cluster spot on a rare station only to find a bunch of old farts ragchewing on frequency Cheesy

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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K0YQ
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Posts: 532




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« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2013, 08:22:53 AM »

I've been able to mine a few measly bitcoins, but if they continue their meteoric rise at the same rate for another year (read bubble) I'll be able to fund a DXpedition myself with my 2 bitcoins.  You know, like with tulip bulbs...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 08:38:41 AM by K0YQ » Logged
W6GX
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« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2013, 08:56:02 AM »

Let's assume they make 60,000 QSOs.  That would be $7.50 per QSO, surpassing the $5.00 per QSO from VP8ORK Shocked

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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N2MG
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« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2013, 08:57:26 AM »

I've been able to mine a few measly bitcoins, but if they continue their meteoric rise at the same rate for another year (read bubble) I'll be able to fund a DXpedition myself with my 2 bitcoins.  You know, like with tulip bulbs...

You, too? I lost my shirt on those dang bulbs.
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WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2013, 09:33:57 AM »

Looking at W9K it appears that about 60% of donations came from the U.S.   Looking at ZL9HR about 50% from the U.S.  These are the individuals only.

I know lately we've all been spending more than usual.

If you spend $400k on a DX and get 25,000 uniques = $16 per ham required.  You can also factor in the approx. donation % per region and % of uniques combined with average donations to get an idea of how much is coming from where.  Then you have the extra $ in the QSL cards or online later.

Once you get above a certain cost level - even with rarity, you would need to rely on organizations to fill in and that's not enough - like $400k+ DX.   That takes an extra effort from all the hams to pitch.   I paid my $16+ for this one, and usually donate something to all of them.   Some might just be a few bucks but for the small ones.. that's all they need if most do it.

So it does look like you get to a point where you need to go backwards - to the basics, and a small operation like many described before.

Regarding my comments (truths) yesterday.. I'll take full responsibility and say "I was not aware of the situation or the details"...  wink wink....




« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 09:36:18 AM by WH7DX » Logged
WH7DX
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« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2013, 11:31:41 AM »

I've been able to mine a few measly bitcoins, but if they continue their meteoric rise at the same rate for another year (read bubble) I'll be able to fund a DXpedition myself with my 2 bitcoins.  You know, like with tulip bulbs...

You, too? I lost my shirt on those dang bulbs.

Looking at history.. I don't think the government will allow this to go on.  They will say or do something one day and it's game over for most.

Non-Political....

They killed the Junk Bond market because it was competing with Treasury bonds.   Government couldn't have that.  I'd guess that they feel the same with bitcoin - as do other countries.  They will teach everyone another lesson IMO.   Today, we're just so far out that we openly print $85B a month to cover the revenue to spending deficit.....   We can't stop creating money until revenue increases or spending decreases because bond sales won't cover it.   The funny part is.. after the Fed Reserve takes its cut (and all the other other private members) the returned interest received on new money (in bonds) is getting very large...  they returned $89 Billion to the treasury last year.  That's approx. 10% of all 1040 taxes collected.  

That's more than the Feds pay for Education.   So perhaps we can keep printing (Yellen who has no real world business experience is all for it), raise interest rates and have the fake money (interest) cover our bills - while our personal expenses grow and consumer packaging shrinks...

It's amazing what bitcoin has done.   What the U.S. needs is another technology bubble - NOT a Fed Reserve Bubble - which is ironic.   They helped to created the housing bubble - now they ARE the bubble........

So if we could get our budget in better shape we could DONATE MORE TO FT5ZM!!   Grin   (good tie in right...  Grin)

Update:   IRS took in $1,100 Billion in 1040 Tax in 2010 (noted that it was before refunds).   In 2009 the IRS paid out $336B in Individual 1040 refunds.  Using those two figures we get a net of $764B so the $89 Billion paid back from interest on newly created Fed Money = nearly 12%.   That's amazing and sad.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 12:26:52 PM by WH7DX » Logged
EI2GLB
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Posts: 591




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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2013, 02:48:23 PM »

If your going to spend $500k and only make 60k Q's then you better enjoy this trip as no one is going to help send you on anymore,

They need to aim for 100-150k Q's keep one station on 20m 24/7 to give a high number of uniques this chopping and changing to give there buddies 20 plus greenies on club log has to stop, the guy that gets 20 slots is no more likely to give a big donation than the guy who get one 20m Q for an ATNO, less so as it's more than likely it not new for him he is just trying to impress his buddies,


Trevor
EI2GLB

Let's assume they make 60,000 QSOs.  That would be $7.50 per QSO, surpassing the $5.00 per QSO from VP8ORK Shocked

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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W6GX
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2013, 08:26:58 PM »

If their goal is to maximize the number of unique stations worked then it's unlikely they are going to hit 150k Q's. The 60k figure would be a success if they also hit 50k uniques.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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N5PG
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Posts: 384




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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2013, 10:05:59 PM »


Breakdown for 100K Qs is approx $2/QSO after ops' own contributions have been paid:
http://www.amsterdamdx.org/ft5zm-20-00-per-minute-on-the-air/

The DX club to which I belong ( http://lsdxa.org/ ) has in effect already prepaid 1000+ Qs, plus many members have also contributed individually.

For those who say they'll contribute once they've made a Q or two, consider that it's the huge upfront costs that need to be met before they can even sail, but apparently some clubs, mostly outside the US, only release their contributions after the event Huh

« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:20:04 PM by N5PG » Logged
WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2013, 09:30:14 AM »

I'm going with about 115,000 QSOs and about 26,000 uniques.

There are only 45.7k uniques in this master file.

http://www.supercheckpartial.com/

ZL9HR did 49K and 15.6K uniques.
W9K did 100K and 23K uniques.
PT0S had a hard time and did 44K QSOs - probably 10-12k unique - right in the middle of NA / EU
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 09:51:35 AM by WH7DX » Logged
W6GX
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« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2013, 09:44:27 AM »

I'm going with about 115,000 QSOs and about 26,000 uniques.

There are only 45.7k uniques in this master file.

http://www.supercheckpartial.com/

ZL9HR did 49K and 15.6K uniques.
W9K did 100K and 23K uniques.

Nice info.  Given the location of FT5ZM I doubt they will have more uniques than W9K.  I'm going to go out on a limb and predict 75k Qs and 20k uniques.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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WH7DX
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« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2013, 10:00:44 AM »

I'm going higher.  I think they will be easier to EU than W9K was.   Wake wasn't easy for many because of location.   You can see by looking at their DX count per band / mode.

AS no problem.  NA not to bad.   But I'm fairly new to this so we'll see....   Grin

Here is the Mega DX list.   Pretty impressive.   Look at some of those uniques in there.   I may need to raise my uniques for FT5ZM a little?

http://dx-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Mega-DX-Peditions-Honor-Roll-10.8.2011.pdf

TX5K - Clipperton had 113K and 24K uniques..  (right before I started to care about DXCC - I never had a QSO with them... Grin)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 10:38:24 AM by WH7DX » Logged
N5UD
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Posts: 827




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« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2013, 12:29:33 PM »

Wow interesting financial discussions. Fed, bit coin, unlimited bond and mortgage backed security buying, DXpedition financing.
What a topic !

To whoever stated the greenie problem ? You are right sir.

EU ? Donors or complainers ?

73 Tony N5UD
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