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Author Topic: what does hrd do verus dxlab?  (Read 23280 times)
K9IUQ
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« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2014, 02:37:12 PM »

Thanks! And keep it up!

You are welcome Dave. No worry - as long as you "push" DxLabs on every logger thread I will be there with you.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Wink Wink Wink
The smiley icons are specially for you Dave as I know from past experience you like em and appreciate my wry humor..    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Since when is there a "standard" interface for logging software???

There is a window standard for programs. Menus at the top etc.
I use Win 7. I expect any program I run to act and look like a modern Win 7 program. Dxlabs looks ancient with no menus, and way too many popup windows. Did I say it is the most ugly logger out there?  DxLabs looks and works like a very old early Window or Linux or Commodore 64. I am trying to be nice here...  Wink

I have found that really good software needs no documentation. 

As i said really good software has almost no learning curve and  it makes the core items very visible while sliding the other stuff into nice easy to access menus.

Yep nail meets hammer head.... Dxlabs does not meet your criteria with its confusing interface and GUI.

Any program that is not user friendly has no place on my hardrive. If I have take a college course to learn a logger program then I refuse to use it. Even when it is a free program.

Stan K9IUQ



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AA6YQ
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« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2014, 02:58:20 PM »

and way too many popup windows

There are no "popup windows" in DXLab; windows only appear when a user takes an action to make them appear, almost always by clicking a button. For example, if I want to see a propagation chart showing when 1A0KM has been spotted by stations within, say, 500 miles of my QTH, I click SpotCollector's Prop button.

You have in the past criticized DXLab for having "too many windows". DXLab does make a lot of information readily available; depending upon how much aggregate screen space the user has, he or she can choose to simultaneously display whichever windows are useful in current circumstances. Others have characterized your critique as "complaining about there being too many dishes at a smorgasbord" - but you are entitled to your opinion.
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2014, 04:03:27 PM »

If you listen to what the loudest Hams have to say you would still be making your software in DOS.
Many of the older Hams hate change!  They knock down everything new because most of them fear that they will no longer be masters of the universe but instead be relegated to asking for help.  I think you made a big mistake in not sticking with your plan to make it emulate the environment of the most current OS that it is run under.  A person in my age bracket of fifty or younger will look at your software, look at HRD and see that yours looks very dated.  Now I understand your need to please the older customer base but your offering it for Free!  If they don't want it for free with a modern interface then tell them to go fly a kite.  That's pretty much what Simon did with HRD and they loved him even though he was not bending over backwards to please anybody.  You either liked it and used it or found something else.

Looking at this from Stans point of view, I am also perplexed as to why your trying to push a free piece of software?  I wrote a few pieces of freeware years ago and I did not care what happened to them or who used them.  I did it for my own purposes and just decided to give it to a few people who gave me advice and they in turn posted it on websites etc.  Years later I don't even have a clue as to what happened to it or who uses it and I don't lose any sleep or even think about it.

My problem with your approach is coming in when someone is talking about a problem that we all know is not the software's fault and posting to help them install your software. Regardless of whether he mentioned it or not the proper thing to do would have been to say "I doubt it's HRD, it's most likely your serial adapter, I suggest you contact HRD for help". After all we all knew after reading his post that it was going to be the serial adapter and it would not have mattered what software he ran he would still have had the issue.  So your change programs was not going to fix his problem, only steer him away from HRD.


« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 04:22:40 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
AA6YQ
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2014, 05:00:22 PM »

If you listen to what the loudest Hams have to say you would still be making your software in DOS.

The age distribution of DXLab users is pretty wide. I ran into one at the local high school last year.

Many of the older Hams hate change!  They knock down everything new because most of them fear that they will no longer be masters of the universe but instead be relegated to asking for help.

That's a terrible generalization! I can introduce you to many older users who a few years years ago would respond to a proposed new capability with "I could never learn to use that" but who today jump right in to help new users identify logged QSOs confirmed by LoTW for DXCC but not for WAS, or to sort out a complex SDR connection topology. Seeing the DXLab user community grow in numbers has been great, but seeing members of this community grow in capability and confidence has been priceless.

There's been plenty of "hate change" demonstrated thoughout this thread; it's likely not age related.

Looking at this from Stans point of view, I am also perplexed as to why your trying to push a free piece of software?

DXLab is driven by its user community. In a typical month, I make 4 public releases of DXLab applications that bear new capabilities. Most of those new capabilities are the result of discussions in the DXLab Yahoo Group catalyzed by suggestions posted there, and refined through rapid iteration. As the community has grown in size and diversity, the quality of these discussions and the value of the capabilities they've produced have both increased substantially. The best way to keep DXLab improving is to keep its user community growing.

The primary obstacle to that growth has been lack of awareness. Read the reviews, and you'll see this meme repeated throughout: I wish I'd learned about DXLab sooner.

My problem with your approach is coming in when someone is talking about a problem that we all know is not the software's fault and posting to help them install your software.

The op posted that he was evaluating HRD, needed help, and might install DXLab while he was waiting. My response was a simple offer to help with the latter. I did not denigrate HRD, or describe any of DXLab's capabilities. There have been lots of posts from ops needing help with HRD; unless the poster expressed an interest in DXLab, I have not engaged.

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K9IUQ
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2014, 05:20:45 PM »

My problem with your approach is coming in when someone is talking about a problem that we all know is not the software's fault and posting to help them install your software.

Dave just not get that his constant advertising of DXLabs in the eham forums turns off many hams.

Personally I do not care if every ham in the world used DxLabs except me. I do not hate DXLabs nor do I have any animosity towards any user of DXLabs. What is irritating is Dave incessantly tries to advertise DxLabs in every thread about loggers. If Dave would actually stop this behavior I would just go away.

Actually, Stan, there is a measurable increase in DXLab "first downloads"

First downloads mean nothing especially on free or trial programs. The important criteria is hams that actually use DxLabs. I have downloaded DXLabs. I have tried it many times in the last 7 or 8 years. I update it regularly. I never have used it for a logger simply because it has a horrid GUI confuser interface.

I suggest that all those DXLab downloads are from hams that want see if I am lying ( I am not) and want to see for themselves if DXLabs is a good logger. Most will find that it is not what you say it is and will let DXLabs languish on the hard drive or delete it. Number of downloads is not something to be proud of when the logger is free.

You brag about DXLabs getting updates 4 times a month. IMO any program that gets that many updates in a month has something wrong with it. If it ain't broke why does DXLabs need so much fixing. You want to do an update that every ham would appreciate? Spend your programming time on that ugly GUI and Confuser interface. Make it look like a Modern Windows program. Now that would be a worthwhile update.

Stan K9IUQ

« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:23:12 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2014, 05:43:08 PM »


There is a window standard for programs. Menus at the top etc.
I use Win 7. I expect any program I run to act and look like a modern Win 7 program.



Sounds like you like it simple and do not like to or have trouble adapting. I go by features not a "standard" interface.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2014, 06:28:25 PM »


Actually, Stan, there is a measurable increase in DXLab "first downloads"

First downloads mean nothing especially on free or trial programs. The important criteria is hams that actually use DxLabs.

There is a positive correlation between "first downloads" and "new users".

Most will find that it is not what you say it is and will let DXLabs languish on the hard drive or delete it.

If that were true, growth of the installed base would have stopped a decade ago. The installed base continues to grow; in the past couple of years, that growth has accelerated.

You brag about DXLabs getting updates 4 times a month. IMO any program that gets that many updates in a month has something wrong with it. If it ain't broke why does DXLabs need so much fixing.

Read the post again, carefully. The updates bear new capabilities. Recent examples include
  • - doubling the number of user-defined filters available in SpotCollector (from 16 to 32)
  • - supporting new macro commands in WinWarbler
  • - directly generating a populated Excel Score Sheet for the CQ DX Marathon contest in DXKeeper
  • - enabling selection of a memory to trigger execution of a user-defined command sequence in Commander

Defects in DXLab applications are generally corrected within 24 hours of being reported. This is practical because
  • - DXlab's architecture is modular and well-encapsulated; defects rarely involve more than component, and defect repairs rarely introduce regressions
  • - every DXLab component includes built-in diagnostics and logging, which captures the defective behavior in the user's environment
  • - distribution of updates is automated and non-invasive, initiated by a mouse click and taking but a minute or two over high-speed internet

As a result, the backlog of reported but uncorrected defects across the entire DXLab Suite stands at 0. Nothing "needs fixing", but there is still plenty of new capability to be developed.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 06:31:42 PM by AA6YQ » Logged
KB1NXE
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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2014, 06:47:44 PM »

When I tried DXLabs, I found the learning curve really steep.  And I have worked with computers for more years than most (36).  I've supported desktops for over 25 of those years.  The Graphic User Interface (GUI) is disjointed, confusing and difficult to work with.

Other than a few "GeeWiz" DXLab features like the translator, I have found over the years that HRD fulfills all my needs very well.  I really don't need all the data presented in VOACAP data as DXLabs PropView presents.  The sunspot number, K and A index and MUF is all I need to know where and when to operate.

DXLabs says they can operate up to 4 rigs at a time.  Well, if you have the system to support it with monitors (desktop real estate) and processors, HRD will support 32.  This is well above known capabilities of other software systems available to the ham community.  I don't know who has 32 rigs to control at once.  But HRD will do it for you.

HRD will also provide over 5 times the listed digital modes as WinWarbler.  HRD is currently working with the Author of the JT modes to integrate them into DM-780.  This again, is above the known capabilities of other software options.

HRD also does Satellite tracking and rig control with Doppler frequency control and adjustment.  DXLab can't spell Satellite.  Again, above other known capabilities of other software options.

So, as you can see from my discussion, HRD seems to be a vastly superior offering.  Yup, it's not free.  But, as in everything in life, you get what you pay for.

Now, I will state, for the record, I am a HRD Alpha and Beta tester and support person.  I also know the capabilities coming in HRD and can state, unequivocally, HRD is unprecedented in it's capabilities supporting the automated Ham in his shack and the administrative part of operating a Ham station.  Future version will cement this position of leadership even more solidly.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 06:55:42 PM by KB1NXE » Logged
W4PC
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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2014, 06:55:46 PM »

Just to clarify, Jim was hired back in July to help us. His helpful support on QRZ and the forums really made him stand out in the crowd. 

We have Tim, Jim, Jose, Jon and Chris doing support and QA.  All are valued for the excellent work they do. There is no way HRD would be at the 14,000 paid user mark now if it wasn't for them and the rest of the team.

Features are good, but it's always support after the sale that brings back return business..

That's why I think we are seeing 4 out of 5 6.0 renew their support. 
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WA9PIE
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« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2014, 06:58:12 PM »

Quote
Functionality that DXLab provides above and beyond the usual "logging and transceiver control" <snip the advert>.


Wow... if this were true... and it's not... then it would validate that there's a VERY low bar for how "the usual" is defined.  Forget the product I represent... I could come up with a half-dozen examples of "logging and transceiver control" programs that are above and beyond.

I suppose if all folks need is "logging and transceiver control"... or they're willing to cobble a half-dozen other things together... then almost anything will work.

But so long as there's an endless self-promoting developer on here writing endless advertisements for a program that is only marginally more advanced than a DOS app... then I must say... HRD is a FULL suite of programs that does FAR more than "logging and transceiver control".

Hey guys... forget about spending money for the moment.  Consider how much TIME you'll avoid wasting by using a fully-integrated suite.

Join us at http://www.youtube.com/hrdsoftware for video demonstrations of the software.  In the end, you may decide you're good with just a free "logging and rig control" software that requires you to have a dozen windows floating around.  But if you want something that takes all the work out of configuring it all so that you can spend more time working DX... I'd recommend HRD.

Mike, WA9PIE
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:00:18 PM by WA9PIE » Logged
AA6YQ
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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2014, 07:29:29 PM »

But so long as there's an endless self-promoting developer on here writing endless advertisements for a program that is only marginally more advanced than a DOS app.

If that's true, perhaps you can explain why users - including some who have already paid you $100 -- have been switching from your product to DXLab, publicly citing superior functionality.


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KB1NXE
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« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2014, 07:30:32 PM »


There is a window standard for programs. Menus at the top etc.
I use Win 7. I expect any program I run to act and look like a modern Win 7 program.



Sounds like you like it simple and do not like to or have trouble adapting. I go by features not a "standard" interface.

Nothing wrong with standards.

When DXLabs did not have the top menu bar, monitors were relatively expensive.  In 2002, a good quality 17" monitor was several hundred dollars.  A 19" or 21" monitor even more.  Resolution was also lower.  Monitor real estate was in high demand and in order to squeeze the maximum amount of information on the display all avenues were used.  DXLabs chose that route.

Today, many have 21" or even larger monitors, multiple monitors and resolutions of 1900 X 1080 (High Def) is included in all current PCs (either standard or as an option).  Heck, in my shack I have 8 monitors on 3 systems (4X19" on one system and the other two both have 2X22"), and another system with 2X28" monitors in another room.

I would guess, that's not "simple"....
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KB1NXE
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« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2014, 07:36:08 PM »

But so long as there's an endless self-promoting developer on here writing endless advertisements for a program that is only marginally more advanced than a DOS app.

If that's true, perhaps you can explain why users - including some who have already paid you $100 -- have been switching from your product to DXLab, publicly citing superior functionality.




I counted 2 since the release of Version 6.

2!

Break out the buckets - the ship is sinking....


NOT!

Strangely, in the same period of time (since the release of V6), HRD has had twice as many positive (3 or better) eHam reviews than DXlabs!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:46:43 PM by KB1NXE » Logged
AA6YQ
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« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2014, 07:45:34 PM »

I really don't need all the data presented in VOACAP data as DXLabs PropView presents.  The sunspot number, K and A index and MUF is all I need to know where and when to operate.

Few DXers remember which openings might be viable on a particular day of the year with the solar flux at a particular level. DXKeeper displays this information graphically, in a readily understandable manner:



One click for a short-path prediction; one click for a long-path prediction.

DXLabs says they can operate up to 4 rigs at a time.  Well, if you have the system to support it with monitors (desktop real estate) and processors, HRD will support 32.  

DXLab needs no additional screen space to automatically switch among 4 primary transceivers and control a 5th transceiver or SDR as a frequency/mode slave to the selected primary transceiver.

HRD will also provide over 5 times the listed digital modes as WinWarbler.

DXLab interoperates with FLDigi, MultiPSK, MMSSTV, MMVARI, MixW, JT-Alert, CWGet, CWSkimmer -- and DM-780.

The 2-Tone and MMTTY RTTY demodulators employed by WinWarbler offer strong weak signal performance valued by DXers, as well as diversity decoding.


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AA6YQ
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« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2014, 07:47:56 PM »


When DXLabs did not have the top menu bar, monitors were relatively expensive.  In 2002, a good quality 17" monitor was several hundred dollars.  A 19" or 21" monitor even more.  Resolution was also lower.  Monitor real estate was in high demand and in order to squeeze the maximum amount of information on the display all avenues were used.  DXLabs chose that route.

Today, many have 21" or even larger monitors, multiple monitors and resolutions of 1900 X 1080 (High Def) is included in all current PCs (either standard or as an option).  Heck, in my shack I have 8 monitors on 3 systems (4X19" on one system and the other two both have 2X22"), and another system with 2X28" monitors in another room.


Monitor resolution had nothing to do with the decision to not use top-of-window menus in DXLab, as is documented in the 2002 CQ Magazine article mentioned earlier in this thread.
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