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Author Topic: HAS CB LIDS DESTROYED THE HAM BANDS?  (Read 20962 times)
N4DSP
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Posts: 165




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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 03:58:34 PM »

N0IU are you having a bad day?

One of the "special" events stations was some guy who monopolized a frequency so that they could commemorate the 50th anniversary of the publication of some book by Ayn Rand! Are you kidding me?

And so what do you talk about on the air? How to cure the world of disease and starvation? How to prevent homelessness? How to solve global warming? How to bring peace to the Middle East?

I am glad you have such important things to talk about on the air!

So the guy parked himself on a single frequency to commemorate a book... so what? How EXACTLY did one guy on one frequency prevent YOU from getting on the air?

Beyond the general decline in manners (and less fear of the FCC), the main reason there are so many idiots is that there are three (3) times as many licensed hams as thirty years ago.

Where are you getting your statistics? Can you quote your source or are you just pulling numbers out of thin air? According to the 1981 Amateur Radio Callbook, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 433,000 licensed amateurs in the United States. Multiply that by 3 and you get 1,299,000. According to the ah0a.org website, there were 717,201 licensed amateurs as of 12/13/2013. You are off by almost 580,000! I am glad you're not my accountant!
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N0IU
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014, 04:10:08 PM »

N0IU are you having a bad day?

Oh no... I am having a fabulous day!

Obviously K6RQR is the one having a bad day when one station on one frequency who isn't using amateur radio in a manner in which he feels is appropriate that it causes him so much consternation. I can understand when a major contest takes up a whole section of multiple bands, but to complain about one guy on one band... Are you kidding me?

And KB4QAA fabricating statistics out of thin air. Anyone can win an argument with statistics... IF YOU MAKE THEM UP!

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KG4YBH
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Posts: 37




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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 04:16:20 PM »

CB has really nothing to do with the ham bands, for one, it is a completely different service and there is actually a good bit of courtesy and organization going on down there in and around all the foolishness..... Much like the Ham bands.....

Fortunately, the Radio Misfits tend to congregate around a few known frequencies and really don't get too far away to bother people for the most part.

What has hurt the Ham bands is the Dumming Down of the testing requirements which has led to a lack of pride in accomplishment to obtain the license in the first place and the constant barrage of contesting EVERY WEEKEND that virtually makes the ham bands useless for anything but Contesting.

It's a different world from the 60's and before when there was a little pride in the Hobby !!!!


Oh my god your right, I just realized it, I am an idiot so they had to make the test easier for me. Never mind I graduated from the Navies nuclear power program, am a licensed pilot and have worked my way up from oiler to engineering officer in the merchant marine, I am an idiot. I was feeling pretty proud that I passed my general exam this morning. Now I have no pride in any of my accomplishments, I guess I will just go sit in a dark room and cry now.

 
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KG4YBH
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Posts: 37




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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 04:22:30 PM »

CB has really nothing to do with the ham bands, for one, it is a completely different service and there is actually a good bit of courtesy and organization going on down there in and around all the foolishness..... Much like the Ham bands.....

Fortunately, the Radio Misfits tend to congregate around a few known frequencies and really don't get too far away to bother people for the most part.

What has hurt the Ham bands is the Dumming Down of the testing requirements which has led to a lack of pride in accomplishment to obtain the license in the first place and the constant barrage of contesting EVERY WEEKEND that virtually makes the ham bands useless for anything but Contesting.

It's a different world from the 60's and before when there was a little pride in the Hobby !!!!


Oh my god your right, I just realized it, I am an idiot so they had to make the test easier for me. Never mind I graduated from the Navies nuclear power program, am a licensed pilot and have worked my way up from oiler to engineering officer in the merchant marine, I am an idiot. I was feeling pretty proud that I passed my general exam this morning. Now I have no pride in any of my accomplishments, I guess I will just go sit in a dark room and cry now.

 


Well that did not post well as it put my reply in with the quote.
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KD8IIC
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Posts: 171




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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2014, 05:28:13 PM »

  No, They Have Not...This posting is totally stupid and very shameful. Yes, many of us "Newbie" hams came out of the 11m ranks...SO WHAT? Does not mean we are all bad, Lids or Evil as you would portray us all to be...And some of us have even learned Morse and we work CW daily, so please put that in your pipe and smoke it!...There are better things for you all to do than to endlessly bitch-n-moan about all the new hams out of 11m ranks and what they were doing BEFORE they ventured into your sacred realm OM...Believe it or not, we know how to behave ourselves. Why not look up the Mal-Contents in your extra class?...Remember k1man? No beginner but an Extra...
Code Free Licensing Is A Fact... It is Working...Get Over it Please!!!!!  73 to you who will listen. Smiley
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W0BTU
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2014, 05:28:47 PM »

And so what do you talk about on the air?

The 160m EUCW contest is on in 30 minutes.  Grin
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1821




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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2014, 05:28:59 PM »

Re: KG4YBH

Keep your well deserved pride, stay out of that dark room and just laugh at the 99% of hams that think the Main Steam and Water Cycle is a 10 speed bike in a hot tub and a Reefer Flat is a crack house. Congrats on your General. JKA USNR/USMS Ret.
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W4KYR
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Posts: 622




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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 05:46:38 PM »

51% of ham radio ops started with CB radio on a survey done here on eham last year.

http://www.eham.net/survey/1232

'Did you start on your journey to ham radio by participating in Citizens Band Radio?'
Posted: Feb 28, 2013   (2256 votes, 101 comments) by AI2IA

Survey Results
Yes. I began with CB.    51% (1146)
No. I began with ham radio.    49% (1110)




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Still using Windows XP Pro.
KD8IIC
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Posts: 171




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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2014, 06:00:13 PM »

  YES, I did. de KDV4846 if memory serves correctly. Had a lot of fun doing 11m. I was not fortunate enough to have a local ham to Elmer me.We lived in the country. I tried to learn Morse as best as I could alone but with very limited rescources.
 I had a respectible HF listening post tough later on in adult life with an HQ100, an HQ170 and a 51J3, RTTY reader and all!...What a blast! Got Tech and a month after Gen in '08' ...Doing CW Daily since 10/12....  73
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W0BTU
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2014, 06:43:22 PM »

I was a ham first (WN8BTU and WD8BTU). For a short time while I was WD8BTU, I was on CB using SSB. But it's been years.

All I use CB for is to listen, to see if 10 meters might be open.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 06:45:31 PM by W0BTU » Logged

VK6IS
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Posts: 113




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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2014, 05:53:33 AM »

there was a HUGE number of CBers who "upgraded to a HAM ticket" in the '80s & '90s
- but with the explosion of mobiles, the need for a CB has diminished somewhat.

some say, that any future growth < youngsters > will be from the PC crowd, but that's rather doubtful, at best.

over here, the use of UHF type CB is more widespread than the regular HF type is.
- the UHF crowd are unlikely to be  "upgraded to a HAM ticket" - any time soon.

it was "skip" that attracted lots of HF CBers to be "upgraded to a HAM ticket".
- that attraction doesn't exist, any more .. ..
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HURRICAINE
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« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2014, 07:47:11 AM »

If you look at the history of the citizens band and you look at the history of amateur radio, they both have similarities.

In the early days of the citizens band, you had to have a license and your license permitted you to only talk back to a 2nd radio that you owned and were licensed to operate.  You would have a Base radio and a unit radio or a mobile radio depending upon how you described your alternate unit.

Then they changed the rules so you could talk locally to anyone within your local district.  This is when it became a hobby.

Then they changed the rules so you were allowed to talk to anyone within 155 miles of your base.

The manufacturers got the bright idea that selling a couple of radios was great, but if you could sell hundreds of thousands of radios - this would be even better.  So they enticed the truck drivers to buy radios by making them solid state - no tubes.
Tubes did not like rough roads or vibration.

When the mobile numbers overtook the base numbers, the sentiment was that I don't need a license as long as I can use my handle and no one is going to catch me because I am mobile and they have to find me first!

When the little kids, people playing music, deranged lunatic's came along, along with people with deep pockets that bought amateur grade equipment - Yaesu FT 101's and amplifiers, it was only a matter of time before it was doomed.

Amateur radio had a select few people participating.
Some people had deep pockets and some people actually bought their way into amateur radio, while others had the intelligence to pass the tests - but not the mental capacity to understand what they were doing or who they were doing it to.

With the manufactures crying that they did not have enough sales and the amateurs crying that they didn't have enough qualified people to fill their ranks, they dropped the license requirements and left everyone in.

Some old timers held on to their junk while others sold their junk and upgraded to better equipment.  This created a market for amateur radio equipment and was an enticement to get more people involved.

The people who had already ruined CB turned to Amateur Radio for a quiet place to talk, because they already had the freeband equipment and they had a fear of getting caught freebanding so they figured they might as well just go ahead and get the license and make it legal.

The old hams and new hams that wanted to make a quick buck gave bogus VE test sessions or outright sold licenses to their friends.

For the most part, some of these people only ever got a Novice class license - which was upgraded to Technician when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.  Or they held a tech plus license, which means that they passed the written portion of the exam but could not pass the code.  They were upgraded to General when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.

This is the reason why 65% of all licensed amateurs only has a Technician class license and why a majority of others only has a General Class license.

You hear them on the radio saying - I don't need to upgrade my license to amateur extra just to get that extra little portion of the band.  When what they are really saying is that they are too dumb to pass the test and the only reason why they have the class of license that they do have is because they were grandfathered into it, or that was all the more money they were willing to pay someone to license them.

For the most part, you don't have as many problems with the new hams as you do with the old ones.  The new ones still has the fear of the Lord in them that the FCC will take away their license if they misbehave.
It is the ones that got their license in the 80's and 90's that you have the most problems with.

Those people came from the bad trash CB radio and they brought their ideals with them and their values and they sit there like they are on the telephone and they don't use their call signs and they talk all kinds of garbage - but they really don't have anything to say - they are just hanging out together like they did when they were on the CB radio.

You have the same crowd that bought their way in that bought expensive amplifiers and radios and microphones and they sit there and broadcast to each other.  Other then a few O&O's that are willing to stick their necks out and tell them that what they are doing is wrong, there is no one to enforce the rules.

We have a crowd of misfits here on the two meters simplex that does this daily and they talk about me because I stirred the pot.  Even though I don't normally talk to them anymore, my name comes up about twice a day.  When their pink slips arrived, this only infuriated them further to the point of where death threats were made.  Typical CB radio BS.  Even though the O&O that wrote them up was 90 miles away.  They failed to realize that when you put a signal on the air, nothing is private, and there is nothing to keep someone with a good radio from listening to you, as long as their location is higher then your location.  Even on two meters.

Most of the LIDS I hear on the HF are located on 80 and 160 meters.  I guess it makes them more important the higher they go.
Yes you can hear them down in 10 meters also.
20 isn't too bad, but 40 has so much garbage most times it isn't worth listening to.

I've never heard many LIDS on CW other then the inconsiderate people that operates outside of the band plan.  The Canadians likes to operate phone on 7072 which is the digital portion in the USA, but that is their prerogative.. I guess it all boils down to the CB radio mentality of I am going to do it because it isn't illegal.
Even though it does interfere with a whole group of people that are trying to use the band legally.

If they gave a mental evaluation along with a competency test for amateur radio, half of the people licensed wouldn't be!

The last CW VE tests were so simple it was pathetic.
You basically had 5 different questions that were asked in CW such as what is your call sign, where are you from etc...
You could guess which question it was and have a 50 50 chance of getting it right with out ever hearing one note of CW in your whole life.

 Had they sent messages in official ARRL format, most no one would have passed the CW portion of the test 15 years ago...

The only thing to do to get rid of the lids is to send emails to the ARRL along with recordings of the audio of the violators and turn them in.   When the ARRL gets enough complaints they will turn in who ever is causing the problems and they will get fines and it will be a federal case instead of a civil.

When enough people are turned in, the offenses will stop.

The problem is, there is no Elmers anymore to teach the new hams how to operate because there is very few people that actually knows how to operate properly themselves.  Even less that knows all of the Part 97...  With the mentality - I can do it myself, it is hard to get new hams paired up with Elmers, because no one wants to listen to someone or have someone tell them what they can and can't do!

Does this sound familiar?
Basically what we are doing is just turning out another set of LIDS for the next generation to put up with and it starts all over again.
Some people are actually attracted to this type of mentality.
That is why the buddy groups lasts as long as they do.
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N4DSP
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Posts: 165




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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2014, 08:01:47 AM »

TenTec came out with their Rebel Transceiver to attract the young PC crowd.
There is a Yahoo Group dedicated to the Rebel. Lot of excitement knowing
one can obtain the code from this site and add accessories to the basic Rebel. Neat
idea.

The local radio clubs, should say Repeater Clubs, which help students obtain their
ham ticket don't go far enough. It usually ends with the person passing the Technician
Class License and then purchasing a 2 mtr HandHeld and take part in Car Shows at local
eateries providing "communication" for traffic, or for 5K races.

There is no elmering to teach proper HF mannerisms. Most of the members at the local radio clubs don't
even operate HF spending their time on D-Star and using the Internet for "dx" ham
contacts. When I asked the President how many cw operators they had in the club his response
was "CW, that's a bad word. What is it." That says it all.
 

there was a HUGE number of CBers who "upgraded to a HAM ticket" in the '80s & '90s
- but with the explosion of mobiles, the need for a CB has diminished somewhat.

some say, that any future growth < youngsters > will be from the PC crowd, but that's rather doubtful, at best.

over here, the use of UHF type CB is more widespread than the regular HF type is.
- the UHF crowd are unlikely to be  "upgraded to a HAM ticket" - any time soon.

it was "skip" that attracted lots of HF CBers to be "upgraded to a HAM ticket".
- that attraction doesn't exist, any more .. ..

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W1JKA
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Posts: 1821




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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2014, 08:16:23 AM »

Re: Hurricaine Harry  reply #26

I'm still a little confused on what frequency you are operating on: Lids more important the HIGHER they go 160/80m as opposed the Lower they go "DOWN in 10 meters"??
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N0IU
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2014, 09:21:33 AM »

For the most part, some of these people only ever got a Novice class license - which was upgraded to Technician when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.  Or they held a tech plus license, which means that they passed the written portion of the exam but could not pass the code.  They were upgraded to General when the 6 tier license program was discontinued.

This is the reason why 65% of all licensed amateurs only has a Technician class license and why a majority of others only has a General Class license.

WTF???

Having a Tech Plus license means that they passed the written tests for Novice and Technician PLUS the 5 wpm code test. Why do you think they called it Tech "PLUS" Huh

Other than Tech Plus and Technician being combined into one class as of April 15, 2000, no classes were automatically upgraded to a higher class with one exception. The only thing that went away was the 13wpm code test, but Technicians still need to take the General written test in order to upgrade unless they took their Technician test before March 21, 1987. And even then, the upgrade was not automatic. They still had to apply for the General license.

If Novices were automatically upgraded to Technician, how come there are still over 13,000 Novice Class license holders? And its the same for the Advanced Class. Even though the 20wpm code test also went away, they still need to take the Extra written to upgrade. Existing Novices and Advanced Class license holders can retain that class as long as they renew on time.

Do you just make this stuff up or what?

« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 09:26:58 AM by N0IU » Logged
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