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Author Topic: What is REAL CW?  (Read 19139 times)
K8AXW
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Posts: 4002




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« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2014, 07:57:41 AM »

Apologize?  Why does anyone feel the need to apologize for anything except bad operating practices or a crummy signal??

It seems that so many are trying to lay a guilt trip on the others.  The CW purists vs. the keyboarders, the homebrewers vs. the appliance operators, QRP people vs. QRO and the list goes on.

My philosophy is do what makes you happy if it's legal and considered good operating practice.  If you don't want your nose tweeked, then don't put your nose in harms way for someone to tweek it.

I've done it and I've had it done to me.  The main thing is not to take comments to heart.

 
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KB1WSY
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Posts: 813




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« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2014, 08:04:56 AM »

Funny, despite some apparently ruffled feathers (squawk! squawk!) I haven't seen anything in this thread that would seem offensive. There are differences of opinion about "real CW"; and also people like me who tend to think it's not a terribly important question. Heck, the more interest we can get in CW, the better, regardless of transmit/receive philosophy/equipment.

My grandfather was a Wireless Telegraphy Officer in World War One. I was reading his autobiography a few months ago. At one point in the war, they changed their transmitters from the old spark equipment to the new CW tube sets, leading to a major improvement in communication. For those guys, "CW" was a new mode rather than anything to do with Morse per se.

Arguably, if you want to be really pedantic, anything transmitted in that (non-spark) mode is CW regardless of its Morse qualities, and even if it's not Morse at all. Someone tuning up on-air is using CW! (I'm just being silly; but also trying to show how relatively unimportant the OP's original question was, although he should be thanked for sparking a lively and interesting debate!)
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GW3OQK
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Posts: 156




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« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2014, 08:19:56 AM »

Quote
Apologize?  Why does anyone feel the need to apologize for anything except bad operating practices or a crummy signal??

AXW, those b*s with full power keyclicking sidebands who splatter all over the band would know what the word apologise means.

WSY, I think we use ICW and I'd like to see your grandfather's story, as WW1 centenary is approaching. I read this recently http://earlyradiohistory.us/1917trn.htm

73
Andrew
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N5EG
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Posts: 258


WWW

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« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2014, 10:11:08 AM »


Then you'll be a real ham...

My friend said, you know software defined radios, computers, and real time code is not ham radio. You need to get a rig, some antennas, and coaxial cables and build a real ham station. When you can operate that, then you'll be a real ham.

His father said SSB rigs are far too complex, and it doesn't take any real operator skill to use a transceiver. In his day he used AM transmitters and receivers. He needed T/R relays, had to adjust modulation to sound good, and due to the crowded bands (the valley of ten thousand heterodynes) had to have real operator skill. When you can operate AM, then you'll be a real ham.

His grandfather said, AM doesn't require any real skill, anyone can talk. CW is much better at getting through with weak signals, and it takes a lot of skill to copy and send code. When you can operate CW, then you'll be a real ham.

His grandfather said back in the day, that his own father said that CW doesn't really demonstrate any skill. He needed to build his own radio from components that he could buy. He'd solder and experiment, understand what went wrong, and change the circuit to work. When you can design and build your radio from basic components, then you'll be a real ham.

But his grandfather's grandfather said, CW is too easy. Real radio is using spark to communicate. We used to scrounge parts from a model-T, build our own components, make a rotary spark gap, and then struggle to pull out the hiss from all those other sparks. When you can operate spark, then you'll be a real ham.

But his great-great-great grandfather said, building radio sets from components doesn't show any real skill. You are just using the knowledge of the companies that build and refined those components. You need to learn how to fabricate those components from raw materials, like nichrome, carbon, glass jars, electrolyte, and metal filings. When you can fabricate your own components and use those to make a radio, then you'll be a real ham.

But his long dead relative had said, using store-bought materials to make components doesn't demonstrate any real skill. You need to be able to refine raw dirt to into those materials to make the components. Go get a shovel. When you understand the fundamental properties of dirt and minerals, and can use them to make the materials that make the components, then you'll be a real ham.

Of course the long-dead-whatever's father had said "A shovel? We didn't start with a shovel." You need to use your own bare hands and the dirt you walk on to get the ore that you need to smelt and forge a shovel. When you can start with just your bare hands and a pile of dirt, then you'll be a real ham.

-- Tom, N5EG



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N8FNR
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Posts: 150




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« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2014, 10:27:55 AM »


Then you'll be a real ham...

-- Tom, N5EG


There is a city park around the corner from my street and there is a model railroad club that has over a mile of track there http://www.greatlakeslivesteamers.org/index.html. They run 1/8 scale trains on 7.5 inch gauge track. The trains are actually pretty cool and I love it when the steam engines are running and I can smell the coal burning at my house. Was over there talking to a guy one day that owned a steam engine that he built. We were just shooting the breeze and I mentioned that I was a ham. He said that he used to be one but that he dropped out of the hobby. I asked why and he said that he poured his own casting from molten iron and said that he could not be in a hobby where you did not make everything from scratch. I asked him where the mine was that he extracted the ore himself. He did not get what I meant so I just walked away.

Zack
N8FNR
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 10:30:11 AM by N8FNR » Logged
KB1WSY
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Posts: 813




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« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2014, 10:35:16 AM »

WSY, I think we use ICW and I'd like to see your grandfather's story, as WW1 centenary is approaching. I read this recently http://earlyradiohistory.us/1917trn.htm

73
Andrew

My grandfather Eric Marris (1890-1976) was a wireless telegraphy officer in the British army in France during World War One.

You can find his recollections here: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?405088-Radio-Officer-in-the-Trenches-of-World-War-One-Memoirs-of-my-Grandfather&highlight=grandfather.

This includes both technical details of the equipment, and an account of his life as a W/T officer.

If you scroll down the linked page, you can also find photos of similar equipment, and family photos of Eric.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 10:44:16 AM by KB1WSY » Logged
WA9CFK
Member

Posts: 116




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« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2014, 04:36:25 PM »

I believe we are victims of our history. To me cw is the straight key I used since high school coupled to a rig I built from from scratch or a kit.

But Heath, Allied, Lafayette and a host of others are long gone. My Yaesu is twice the receiver of anything I ever built at a fraction of the cost. (Thank goodness for Chinese prison labour. Hi Hi)
 Grin

I have tried bugs, keyers etc. and they all do what they are supposed do, but in the end my most satisfying QSOs are clicked out on my straight key with a 5 watt rig I built myself, be it across the country or across the state.

Just a victim of my past.   Grin
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WB3CQM
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Posts: 129




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« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2014, 09:08:47 AM »

real cw is  MUSIC to the ears
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W8MW
Member

Posts: 330




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« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2014, 09:13:14 AM »


Then you'll be a real ham...-- Tom, N5EG

Funny and on-point!  We need you to write more stuff.

73 Mike W8MW
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WX2S
Member

Posts: 759




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« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2014, 07:46:52 PM »

A REAL CW operator can teach code to a dog!

http://www.kn3c.com/Shep/Code%20School.mp3

(Warning: this page starts playing audio immediately.)
Fantastic! Thanks!

Wx2s.
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73, - Steve WX2S.
I subscribe to the DX Code of Conduct. http://dx-code.org/
KH2G
Member

Posts: 341




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« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2014, 01:27:46 PM »

The honest answer is CW means continous carrier so if you locked your key down, you'd be sending "real CW" Grin
 Grin
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KK4MRN
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Posts: 97




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« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2014, 01:47:32 PM »

What is up with this real ham and CW?

A real ham uses spark gap to send morse code!  What the heck is this continuous waves stuff?

(Just being humorous - no offense)

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WB3CQM
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Posts: 129




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« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2014, 05:22:22 AM »

What is up with this real ham and CW?

A real ham uses spark gap to send morse code!  What the heck is this continuous waves stuff?

(Just being humorous - no offense)



Please READ this article by 73 Magazine - How many hams worked this station ? I have a 30 min tape recoding of this simulated sound of Spark Gap transmitter. I will make and effort to see if I can make it so others here can hear it as well.

http://www.qsl.net/w1aa/w1aa_1006.htm

It was 1978 and I had no clue what I was hearing at first . It was funny to copy the ham stations giving KM1CC a 5NN report on the simulated Spark Gap they were transmitting with on 75th Anniversary of Marconi's First Wireless Signal transmitted between Cape Cod and Poldhu, England.

Here is recording of real CW

http://www.radiomarine.org/audio/list?panel=pab1_13

73 Jim

« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 05:32:27 AM by WB3CQM » Logged
W4KYR
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Posts: 622




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« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2014, 05:53:41 AM »

I think real CW operator would use the Eico "Seven Drifty Three" and a  Gotham vertical antenna and a straight key.
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K3DCW
Member

Posts: 217




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« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2014, 01:22:57 PM »

Well, as someone who is learning to copy and send CW, it sure seems like "real CW" for many is morse code sent without spaces.  In an average day I can count dozens of old-school "REAL CW" operators sending CQCQCQCQDEAB1CDAB1CDAB1CDK

I guess the spaces and proper spacing are just extraneous nonsense.

That being said, it does make for some interesting practice.

73

Dave
K3DCW
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www.machamradio.com
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