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Author Topic: Yaesu Digital Repeater  (Read 9362 times)
N1VQM
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Posts: 13




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« on: March 13, 2014, 10:54:55 AM »

It seem like lots of money spend on monthly advertisements but has anyone actually seen or heard one? I recall reading they were supposed to be out late last year but searching brings nothing.
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N0FPE
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2014, 06:46:11 AM »

seems there are now a few on the air now. Another mode that will die like D-Snore is doing now. Only one manufacturer and not compatable with any other digital mode.  Repeaterbook has some of the Fusion repeaters listed...

 Undecided
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KE7TMA
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2014, 07:33:45 PM »

seems there are now a few on the air now. Another mode that will die like D-Snore is doing now. Only one manufacturer and not compatable with any other digital mode.  Repeaterbook has some of the Fusion repeaters listed...

 Undecided

Yeah this is a problem.  Soon there is to be a handheld transmitter that has codec2, though (HackRF) and I expect this little gadget will rapidly supplant the proprietary digital radios that are being foisted off on us now.

I'll be sticking to my FM HTs until I get my HackRF anyway.
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N1VQM
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 07:11:55 AM »

I found one repeater listed. Says it is the first one in the US. Technically it may be better than d star, better voice quality for sure.

Would be nice to see a faster adoption of digital modes on VHF UHF. I have two,d star radios but we mostly use them in analog. The voice quality just sucks. Anybody has tried the yaesu digital mode? 
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KE7TMA
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 05:07:26 PM »

I found one repeater listed. Says it is the first one in the US. Technically it may be better than d star, better voice quality for sure.

Would be nice to see a faster adoption of digital modes on VHF UHF. I have two,d star radios but we mostly use them in analog. The voice quality just sucks. Anybody has tried the yaesu digital mode? 

Why would it be nice to see faster digital adoption?  The market is spoken, and people would rather stick to the tried and true FM mode, which is brand agnostic and works fine with radios built since WWII.  Another issue aside from the crappy voice quality, is that with digital voice, the signal either reaches the other guy or not.  With analog FM, even if the signal is marginal you can often turn down the squelch and hear the other guy, even if he's scratchy sounding.
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NV2A
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 05:33:56 PM »

Getting stuff like this to fly is tough in the amateur community when you have so many old geezers (me) with such tight purse strings!  Here in Western New York we don't even use some of the new ctcss calling modes available on most new radios.  It took us forever to finally get tone squelch just to stop inversion from coming across the lake and holding our gear open.  Had to wait until some old guys died off and new blood came in with their newer radios !

(I should add that digital audio sounds great until you hit the fringes and then you are pretty much out of luck)
73's all
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 05:36:08 PM by NV2A » Logged
KG4RUL
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 11:55:49 AM »

What I still don't understand about these units is if the repeater is receiving an FM signal, does it repeat on FM and Digital at the same time?  And vice-versa for a received Digital signal?  If not, you end up with two groups of users, using different modes and no "fusion" at all!
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KU7PDX
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 03:41:04 PM »

What I still don't understand about these units is if the repeater is receiving an FM signal, does it repeat on FM and Digital at the same time?  And vice-versa for a received Digital signal?  If not, you end up with two groups of users, using different modes and no "fusion" at all!

My understanding is that if the repeater owner is operating "auto" on both the input and output, if FM goes in - FM comes out, if digital goes in - digital comes out. My understanding is that most will run in auto input, FM output - this way digital users can be heard by FM users, the idea being that once the number of digital users increases to a significant level, the repeater owner can eventually swap it to digital input, digital output.
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73,
Chris - KU7PDX
KG4RUL
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 05:12:08 PM »

What I still don't understand about these units is if the repeater is receiving an FM signal, does it repeat on FM and Digital at the same time?  And vice-versa for a received Digital signal?  If not, you end up with two groups of users, using different modes and no "fusion" at all!

My understanding is that if the repeater owner is operating "auto" on both the input and output, if FM goes in - FM comes out, if digital goes in - digital comes out. My understanding is that most will run in auto input, FM output - this way digital users can be heard by FM users, the idea being that once the number of digital users increases to a significant level, the repeater owner can eventually swap it to digital input, digital output.

So, if the input is digital the output will be digital and the FM users will not hear the transmission and if the input is FM the output will be FM and the digital users will not hear the transmission.  It seems to me that if you are passing a piece of information to a mixed mode group of users you would need to repeat the same information in both modes.  This is progress?
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AA4PB
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 05:35:24 PM »

If you think about it, it would be pretty difficult to transmit digital and analog FM at the same time, on the same frequency, and especially from the same transmitter. It would make sense that the output would have to be either digital or analog FM.

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KG4RUL
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 09:27:05 PM »

If you think about it, it would be pretty difficult to transmit digital and analog FM at the same time, on the same frequency, and especially from the same transmitter. It would make sense that the output would have to be either digital or analog FM.



What is strange is that it is advertised as a dual-band repeater which implies a receiver and transmitter for each band.  That would seem to make it possible to put, for example, your FM users on 2M and your digital users on 70CM. 

If the software and controller circuitry could support it, an FM transmission received on 2M could be repeated in-band on 2M and converted to digital for transmission on 70CM.  A digital transmission received on 70CM could be repeated in-band on 70CM and converted to FM for transmission on 2M.

Different bands, no interference problems.  Of course that would involve two duplexers and antennas.  OR you might be able to use a diplexer after the duplexers and a dualband antenna?
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KS4VT
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 11:04:40 AM »

If you think about it, it would be pretty difficult to transmit digital and analog FM at the same time, on the same frequency, and especially from the same transmitter. It would make sense that the output would have to be either digital or analog FM.

The Yaesu C4FM repeater design resembles the APCO25 (P25) capability of what is called "mixed-mode".  The repeater is capable of switching between either analog or digital, based on the received signal type.  If the repeater receives analog it will pass analog or if it receives digital it will pass and re-transmit digital.  P25 conventional has had this capability since its inception and Yaesu is doing absolutely nothing new, except as compared to D*.

What I'm interested in finding out is if the repeaters will pass each others signal being they are both C4FM.  It has been proven that the radios will not talk to each other, but will the Yaesu repeater be transparent to the received signal?  The Motorola Quantar does not decode and then re-encode P25 and only passes what it hears, so I'm wondering if it will pass the Yaesu C4FM protocol.
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N1VQM
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 07:14:18 AM »

Related to the Fusion Repeater, does anybody know what the story and functionality of the Wires X (HRI200) is?
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KJ6ACO
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 08:40:05 PM »

Yaesu just gave HRO a repeater for beta testing. they put it up on Mt. Otay 449.200 just north of the Mexican border.  I love the FTM-400DR the display is easy to read even in direct sunlight. I've been having good luck in simplex with another ham in my area as I've been driving around.
Sound so much better than DSTAR in Voice Wide mode of course it's 12.5 wide. the Voice and Data mode sounds about the same but it does not R2D2 is just bark a digital sound on the way out when the signal gets weak. I live in north county of San Diego and I hope to find more repeaters in So. Cal. great great radio life is to short not to try other digital modes.
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KS4VT
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Posts: 143




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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 04:58:35 PM »

Yaesu just gave HRO a repeater for beta testing. they put it up on Mt. Otay 449.200 just north of the Mexican border.  I love the FTM-400DR the display is easy to read even in direct sunlight. I've been having good luck in simplex with another ham in my area as I've been driving around.
Sound so much better than DSTAR in Voice Wide mode of course it's 12.5 wide. the Voice and Data mode sounds about the same but it does not R2D2 is just bark a digital sound on the way out when the signal gets weak. I live in north county of San Diego and I hope to find more repeaters in So. Cal. great great radio life is to short not to try other digital modes.

I would not be surprised if it sounded a lot like P25....the later firmware versions of P25 (version 13 and up in Motorola) sounds really good.

If you haven't tried DMR I would highly recommend it.  The MARC DMR system is a lot of fun with a number of talk-groups set up on the 2 time-slots and the radios have become very inexpensive (under $200).
http://www.dmr-marc.net/index.html
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