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Author Topic: Airplanes  (Read 4200 times)
G7MRV
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2014, 12:25:50 PM »

.....
I'm not sure of any details but I believe that the aircraft's engines were each also supplied with telemetry radios that were independent of any of the on-board and crew-accessible systems, and these continued to send out position updates even after the other telemetry stopped.

It is difficult to tell anything for sure, as there has been a lot of conflicting information regarding this flight.  Malaysian airlines has an abysmal safety record but if the plane had simply crashed I think we'd know more by now.

Yes - Rolls Royce receive telemetary from all of their engines that are in the air at any time. I guess they would be able to tell if the plane was flying but not necessarily where it was.


Which they receive via ACARS - which was switched off.

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KE7TMA
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2014, 04:30:37 PM »

.....
I'm not sure of any details but I believe that the aircraft's engines were each also supplied with telemetry radios that were independent of any of the on-board and crew-accessible systems, and these continued to send out position updates even after the other telemetry stopped.

It is difficult to tell anything for sure, as there has been a lot of conflicting information regarding this flight.  Malaysian airlines has an abysmal safety record but if the plane had simply crashed I think we'd know more by now.

Yes - Rolls Royce receive telemetary from all of their engines that are in the air at any time. I guess they would be able to tell if the plane was flying but not necessarily where it was.


Which they receive via ACARS - which was switched off.



The engines have their own telemetry transmitters as far as I understand it.  I don't think they use ACARS.
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W4KYR
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2014, 04:33:23 PM »

 Another OFF track response: You would think that any countries military who had a satellite in the area at the time would release the results of the jet's engines vapor trail via the infra red sensors that distinguish temp and moisture content signature differences in the atmosphere. Makes you wonder, why all the slow news seepage and secrecy.

Intelligence agencies never reveal their capabilities.  Wouldn't want the enemy to know what they can do.  Someone probably knows where the plane is but they are not talking.

That seems like the most logical sense. Perhaps our spy satellites might have been able to monitor the flight (as well as most flights).

Kind of reminds me of World War II when we were able to monitor the communications from the Germans because the Enigma code was broken. From what I saw in some documentaries there were cases were we had to give the impression that the Enigma code was still secure, and in some cases let the Germans sink some boats and allow for a few German victories.

That may very well be the case with the missing plane. I agree, it could be probable that someone knows something but they can't tell.
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KD0REQ
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2014, 05:20:24 PM »

the Chinese earthsat pictures from last week were pretty blocky.  they have to have better capability than they were showing.  which is the usual way of things.

don't forget, 2/3 of the pax were Chinese citizens, they have a lot on their mind here...
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KE7TMA
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2014, 05:43:44 PM »

the Chinese earthsat pictures from last week were pretty blocky.  they have to have better capability than they were showing.  which is the usual way of things.

don't forget, 2/3 of the pax were Chinese citizens, they have a lot on their mind here...


Even blocky pictures might give us some hint to their capabilities through deconvolution.
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G7MRV
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 07:08:27 AM »

.....
I'm not sure of any details but I believe that the aircraft's engines were each also supplied with telemetry radios that were independent of any of the on-board and crew-accessible systems, and these continued to send out position updates even after the other telemetry stopped.

It is difficult to tell anything for sure, as there has been a lot of conflicting information regarding this flight.  Malaysian airlines has an abysmal safety record but if the plane had simply crashed I think we'd know more by now.

Yes - Rolls Royce receive telemetary from all of their engines that are in the air at any time. I guess they would be able to tell if the plane was flying but not necessarily where it was.


Which they receive via ACARS - which was switched off.



The engines have their own telemetry transmitters as far as I understand it.  I don't think they use ACARS.

Then your understanding is incorrect.

The engine systems feed, along with other airframe systems, into the ACARS system. ARINC are responsible then for disseminating this to the end users, in this case Boeing and Rolls-Royce.

With the ACARS unit off, but the INMARSAT terminal on, the terminal remained in periodic 'keep alive' contact with the satellite. This is like your switched off mobile periodically contacting the local cell to maintain its cellID.

I can foresee a future change to the INMARSAT protocol that ALL transmissions must, where available, include positional data. This would be a simple firmware change and would be a cheap way for the aviation industry to help negate this sort of incident in the future.
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