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Author Topic: Consider Linux  (Read 30157 times)
W0BTU
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« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2014, 05:44:14 AM »


So if XP works, us it. I still run W2K on a machine. Just because Linux is there doesn't mean I have to or should use it.

I agree, unless there are concerns that using an XP computer on the internet months after the support is gone could lead to security issues. ... By changing the OS to another operating system such as Linux (or ANY other modern operating system). It is possible to use computer on the internet for a few years more.

Bingo!

I have a big Dell Poweredge with Windows 2000 Advanced Server. But I never connect it to the Internet for very long. Too much risk, even though it's behind a secure firewall. And there's no support or security software available for Win2K AS anymore, as expensive as that multi-processor server OS was to purchase.

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The answer to all this would be if some outside company offered support and security updates for XP (after Microsoft stops supporting it).

FWIW, Malwarebytes has said they are going to support their product on XP indefinitely.

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If the computer is going to be offline and used for other tasks then keep whatever OS that is on it whether it is XP or Windows 2000 (which is one of Microsoft's better Operating Systems). ... There is no reason to toss out a perfectly good running computer just because some software company decides to no longer support it.

I'm using an old Pentium III 450 MHz box with 512K RAM for our main firewall and router. It runs a Linux-based firewall and is faster than any router I've ever used.
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W8JX
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« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2014, 06:01:16 AM »

I agree, unless there are concerns that using an XP computer on the internet months after the support is gone could lead to security issues. Eventually it comes down to a choice between tossing a perfectly functioning computer out to the curb or finding another OS to run on it in order to continue to use it on the internet. By changing the OS to another operating system such as Linux (or ANY other modern operating system). It is possible to use computer on the internet for a few years more.

Something being left out of the equation here is that most these old computers are getting pretty old hard drive included and it is getting harder to find drives for them. It is best to cut losses and get new hardware and OS.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
W1JKA
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« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2014, 06:31:22 AM »

Re: W8JX

  Re check your math, nothing is being left out of the equation: to find X (old hard drives) just go to your local independent computer repair shop where you will find old working drives a dime a dozen from stripped out PCs, not to mention finding them on line. Let's see does 2+2 = 22 or 4.
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W8JX
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« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2014, 06:36:45 AM »

Re: W8JX

  Re check your math, nothing is being left out of the equation: to find X (old hard drives) just go to your local independent computer repair shop where you will find old working drives a dime a dozen from stripped out PCs, not to mention finding them on line. Let's see does 2+2 = 22 or 4.

A old stripped out HD is no more reliable than one in unit. I swap out/replace a hard drive when it is 3 years or so old and replace it with new and do not wait for failure.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
VA2PBJ
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« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2014, 07:32:35 AM »

The XP machine is still quite useful, even on the internet. Microsoft is not fixing the os, but NAV (or whatever) is being updated, Chrome is being updated, .... And as far as the internet is concerned, hardware firewalls should be the norm by now. There are still lots of options to keep it running. Java has only stopped being supported on W2K since version 7. The reality is Microsoft hasn't released much at all in the last 12 months, same with vista.

Vista was not a debacle. It was a PR nightmare. Fact just never went with the pace of perception. The press loves to make a ship with a leak sink; it doesn't take much effort and keeps readers reading. If you had the resources (cpu & ram), it ran just fine. The only reason I took vista off my machine (12 cores, 64g ram) was because of the juicy $50 upgrade price for Win8.
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7 3 Peter VA2PBJ
K9IUQ
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« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2014, 07:39:19 AM »

I swap out/replace a hard drive when it is 3 years or so old and replace it with new and do not wait for failure.

If you backup regularly I guarantee that your hardrive will NOT fail. Having used hardrives for umpteen years I have only had one HD failure. This was 25 years ago, and I had no backup. Since that episode I backup  regularly and have never had a hardrive fail.

Changing out a hardrive every 3 years is not too smart. Instead just buy some good Backup Software ( I use Acronis) and dare the hardrive to fail... You will save money, headaches and your HD will outlast you.

If your hardrive ain't broke (failed) stop trying to fix it.  Cheesy Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 07:41:20 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2014, 07:50:06 AM »

The XP machine is still quite useful, even on the internet. Microsoft is not fixing the os, but NAV (or whatever) is being updated, Chrome is being updated, .... And as far as the internet is concerned, hardware firewalls should be the norm by now. There are still lots of options to keep it running. Java has only stopped being supported on W2K since version 7. The reality is Microsoft hasn't released much at all in the last 12 months, same with vista.

It is not that simple. Security holes and exploits in OS are independent of browser. You are playing Russian Roulette with XP on Web after April and with more bullets in cylinder as time goes on. Only safe way to us XP is disconnected from Web. As far as updates, MS has issued a lot in last 12 months.  

Vista was not a debacle. It was a PR nightmare. Fact just never went with the pace of perception. The press loves to make a ship with a leak sink; it doesn't take much effort and keeps readers reading. If you had the resources (cpu & ram), it ran just fine. The only reason I took vista off my machine (12 cores, 64g ram) was because of the juicy $50 upgrade price for Win8.

Them problem with Vista was OS was ahead of hardware at launch and some makers like Dell flooded market with hardware that WAS NOT Vista compliant. With proper hardware and with dual cores and at least 2 gig of RAM vista was fine especially at SP1 level and above. I have a 6 plus year old intel quad core Vista machine with 8 gig of ram and i upgraded drive to a TB 7200 RPM drive with 32 meg cache a few years ago and it is still a solid machine. I still like Vista more than 7 but I do like 8 too.

 BTW the only things I back is data and not whole drive and I have never lost data on a HD
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W0BTU
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« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2014, 07:57:33 AM »

Security holes and exploits in OS are independent of browser. You are playing Russian Roulette with XP on Web after April and with more bullets in cylinder as time goes on. Only safe way to us XP is disconnected from Web.

I agree. No matter what security software we use on XP Pro after 4/8/14, we are vulnerable to malware.
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KD8QOI
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2014, 08:21:20 PM »

For the benefit of others.

Could you explain which version of Fedora you are using: Just using latest update 64 bit version

What are the specs on your computer? Pretty good, It's a gaming computer with a 2.5Ghz dual core processor, GTX 560, 3GB ram

Were there were any issues with installing it and did you encounter any driver issues? Not that I can think of

What radios if any are you using with it? Have a ft-857d but not interfaced with the computer what-so-ever. I have not looked into doing so

Are you using a SignaLink USB, Rigblaster, computer sound card for your digital communications? Have not looked into any of this yet. Waiting for upgrade

What advantages do you note using Fedora over other Linux distributions? I like fedora because it seems more "newb" friendly and has less extra un-needed crap Ubuntu has. I also recommend Linux Mint for computers with low-ish specs. Mint also has a Windows like feel to it so it is very easy to transition to. I like Mint and Fedora equally.   

How long have you been using Linux and/or Fedora? Linux : 5 years Fedora: 3 years Mint: 3.5 years

What ham radio related programs does Fedora have and how well do they work? Have not tried any. Have searched though and their are many loggers

What modes do you use with this set up and well do they work? None

I think these questions and your answers could guide those looking for alternatives to XP.
Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 08:25:15 PM by KD8QOI » Logged
N5INP
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« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2014, 04:14:58 AM »

So I re-installed Ubuntu on the laptop - this time it seemed to work. It also went out to the cloud and grabbed a bunch of updates. So it's looking goo right?

I needed to get it off the wired network. I then plugged in the Netgear wireless USB dongle I was using under Vista.

 Huh

Nothing. Nada, Zip. Zilch. Zero.

It acted as if I had plugged in a popsicle stick. It just sat there and gave me no options to make it work.

At least in Windoze it would have given me options to try and make it work, searching for drivers and such. Under Linux - I am left to fend for myself. This is why Linux will never make it mainstream.
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W4KYR
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« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2014, 06:39:57 AM »

So I re-installed Ubuntu on the laptop - this time it seemed to work. It also went out to the cloud and grabbed a bunch of updates. So it's looking goo right?

I needed to get it off the wired network. I then plugged in the Netgear wireless USB dongle I was using under Vista.

 Huh

Nothing. Nada, Zip. Zilch. Zero.

It acted as if I had plugged in a popsicle stick. It just sat there and gave me no options to make it work.

At least in Windoze it would have given me options to try and make it work, searching for drivers and such. Under Linux - I am left to fend for myself. This is why Linux will never make it mainstream.

When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

Unlike Ubuntu, Linux Mint is better in that regard. It will prompt for or could even have the drivers in the OS. Also the codecs 'work out of the box' as well unlike Ubuntu.


How to install any Netgear wireless adapter driver on Ubuntu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNR0Wvg1k5I

also

[SOLVED] trying to install Netgear usb wireless adapter
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1806839



« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 06:43:41 AM by W4KYR » Logged

Still using Windows XP Pro.
W8JX
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« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2014, 07:37:30 AM »


When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

It was likely because it was a non standard install/restore meaning unit never came with 7. If it had the OEM Win 7 install disk would of had needed drivers


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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
N5INP
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« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2014, 11:04:43 AM »

When I had to reinstall Windows 7 on a laptop there were no wireless drivers, no touchpad, no video drivers, nothing, nada.  Just Windows 7

You are missing the point entirely. Windows will prompt you to search for drivers or for the driver disk or source. Ubuntu was silent. That's the point - Linux will never be mainstream of it's going to sit silent when somebody wants to install a device from a mainstream manufacturer. Oh, and sending them to a highly technical forum to hack and paste weird terminal strings ain't gonna make the cut with the average Joe.

Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...

I'm done with this round of time-wasting. The laptop is going into the closet for a couple of years until Linux get's it's act together - if it ever does.
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KE6TDP
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« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2014, 12:56:47 PM »

Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...
Actually, the question could be reversed based on the conspiracy angle.  Microsoft and Apple may be "paying" the hardware companies not to support Linux. Logically, if you sell hardware you want it work with any operating system.

The conspiracy thought may not be too far fetched. Note how the big box stores sell computers with Window pre-installed. Out of curiosity, I once asked the salesperson at Best Buy if I could buy a computer without Windows and he said "NO". Note how Apple has been able to get the manufactures of many radio/music devices to make them iPad (proprietary) compatible, but not plain USB compatible. (Absolute marketing genius on the part of Apple.)
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W0BTU
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« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2014, 01:34:49 PM »

Oh and by the way - Netgear doesn't even offer Linux drivers. If Linux has such a following why are no drivers provided by the manufacturer on their support site? Hmmm ...

Linux used to have a real issue with wireless networking. I used to own an old IBM Thinkpad with only 128 MB RAM. By today's standards, it was a dinosaur. It came with 3 PCMCIA network cards, and it was dual boot: either Win98 or some older distro of Linux (forget which).

I used it to enjoy trying different Linux distros on it. The newest Netgear wireless card didn't work immediately with Linux, but that was not difficult to fix. But all the other PCMCIA network cards --wired and wireless-- worked in various Linux distros I installed on that machine  without even trying.

There was ONE distro of Linux where the display was messed up (forget which). But I haven't had that happen in years, either with the newer video systems or the old Xorg stuff which admittedly could be tempermental.

Quote
Actually, the question could be reversed based on the conspiracy angle.  Microsoft and Apple may be "paying" the hardware companies not to support Linux. Logically, if you sell hardware you want it work with any operating system.

The conspiracy thought may not be too far fetched. Note how the big box stores sell computers with Window pre-installed. Out of curiosity, I once asked the salesperson at Best Buy if I could buy a computer without Windows and he said "NO". ...

Didn't Best Buy or somebody similar offer a machine with Linux a few years ago? I forget the details, but Microsoft did something to try and stop it. Anyone remember the details?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 01:38:58 PM by W0BTU » Logged

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