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Author Topic: RemoteHamRadio.com - WebDX  (Read 10090 times)
AF3Y
Member

Posts: 3722




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« Reply #120 on: March 21, 2014, 05:35:20 PM »

You guys follow baseball?  Major league baseball?

Remember what happens to guys who "cork" their bats?

Why?  An UNFAIR advantage over all others who use the uncorked bats. Its CHEATING. (That's WHY they made a RULE against corking your bat).

On that note, I also think guys who run 2 and 3 KW QRO are cheating too.

Lotsa ways to cheat..... Cool

I know, there is no rule broken......... YET.

73, Gene AF3Y
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 05:37:33 PM by AF3Y » Logged
WS3N
Member

Posts: 686




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« Reply #121 on: March 21, 2014, 05:46:23 PM »

What advantage? Is anyone who uses this somehow stopping you from making a QSO? Are you arguing that there are so many big stations now on the air that your signal is being swamped?

This seems like an extension of the net/no-net, list/no-list argument. Even more so in these cases, what others choose to do has no impact on your chances of a QSO.
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 2157




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« Reply #122 on: March 21, 2014, 06:02:11 PM »

What advantage? Is anyone who uses this somehow stopping you from making a QSO? Are you arguing that there are so many big stations now on the air that your signal is being swamped?

It's not just about right now, think about the future of DXing once we start travelling down this road.

Think 10 years from now and there are 30 Major Remote sites on the west coast all charging 49 cents per minute.
Then think of say a P5 activation and instead of the big guns of the west coast firing off on the first 2-3 days and making their contacts, we have on top off that a non stop barage of Hams from the East coast and midwest firing every minute from those 30 remote sites.  Every paying Ham using a 3 minute slice of time to make a QSO then handing it over to the next guy in the cue.  And it will be vice verse for the west coast when somebody like Monk Apollo comes on.

That's what Gene is talking about an unfair advantage that will no doubt be disallowed by the ARRL once it gets too big.
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N5PG
Member

Posts: 284




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« Reply #123 on: March 21, 2014, 06:22:03 PM »

And yeah, over 300 it takes even more time and less skill. Probably more money than skill

If you can afford all the hardware your statement might be partially true.

For those making the best out of a poor location and limited funds it's borderline insulting to say there's no skill involved.
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KI6LZ
Member

Posts: 579




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« Reply #124 on: March 21, 2014, 06:33:36 PM »

First off let me make it perfectly clear that I am not trying to insult anyone. I am off the opinion that skill has a very small role in either attaining a large number of countries or pile up busting. The only skills test that I know of may be the WRTC. Riding a bicycle takes some skill while learning, CW and especially higher speeds take skill. But sitting around getting spots, continuous calling, building large beams, having big amps, being on for 50 years plus to me is not skill.

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WO7R
Member

Posts: 694




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« Reply #125 on: March 21, 2014, 08:49:16 PM »

Quote
For those making the best out of a poor location and limited funds it's borderline insulting to say there's no skill involved.

"Making the best of a poor location" and "working over 300 countries needs money" are not, in some places in the US anyway, overlapping statements.

In Minnesota, where I did most of my DXing, you could probably get to a bit over 300 countries with a basic station (e.g. G5RV at 35 feet).  Getting to the Honor Roll was another matter.

A skillful DXer (WB2V, SK alas) moved into town from 2-land.  He had a 20 meter loop in his apartment, yet he amazed me with his skill.  Worked DX that I wasn't and yet even I (Mr Pop Gun) had a better setup.  In fact, he taught me things that still improve my own country count.

But, after he got his house, up went a pretty good tower, a quad, and a full kilowatt.  The reason seemed obvious enough:  Because all the DXers I knew that got very far over 310 or certainly 320 active did the same.

You hit a wall, you compared your progress with your lifespan, and you generally figured out how to upgrade the station (or you did something else).  Then, you make HR.  That's how it worked in Minnesota over the last couple of decades.

I don't think it is much different in AZ, though I haven't been here as long.  If I lived in Delaware, maybe I could expect to make HR with wire antennas.  Maybe.
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WO7R
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Posts: 694




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« Reply #126 on: March 21, 2014, 08:56:28 PM »

Quote
we have on top off that a non stop barage of Hams from the East coast and midwest firing every minute from those 30 remote sites.

But would it really be "non stop"?

You may think 49 cents a minute is cheap, but it adds up fast.  From what I can tell, the stations like that we have today require a relationship.  I don't see them selling in 3 minute intervals to all and sundry and that's all.  To use this service, a certain level of ongoing commitment will probably end up being a practical requirement.  So they'll be shelling out between P5 operations, because that's what it will take to keep the doors open of those stations.

And, some of those guys aren't going to have enough skill to win a pileup like that, I don't care what station they have.  Throw in the added latency in their setup, they may miss quite a few opportunities because they can't get the timing right even if they do have the skill, or would, in a conventional setup.

It's not the slam dunk you say it is.  It isn't going to be "all them, all the time."

Meanwhile, minute by minute in the pileup, there's only 30 more stations to beat than we had before.  Unless the DX is sitting on a single listening frequency, how big a problem is it?  

And for the HR difference makers, most are not going to sit on one listening frequency.  It usually doesn't work and smart operators don't even try.  You're looking at a minority of minority situation as far as problems go, even as you describe it.

Speaking for myself, I'm not afraid of those odds.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 09:05:39 PM by WO7R » Logged
KE2TR
Member

Posts: 134




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« Reply #127 on: March 22, 2014, 05:30:33 AM »

Well to all the DXers out there I just wonder how many of you guys run way over the legal limit to make your contacts. Lets see an old 77DX will do 2.7KW out, a 91B 2.6Kw, a bunch of QRO and Comander amps will do anywere between 2.7 to 3.4Kw out, Acom 2000A will do close to 3KW, a buch of Henry amps will do well over 3Kw and  few between 4-6Kw, 77SX between 4-5KW out and then the owners of such amps give you that BS line about I like to have the extra headroom so the parts will last a lifetime at 1.5KW, I will belive that like I will belive in the easter bunny. Plus most of these big amp stations are running very big and large antenna systems, no dipoles at 30 ft more like monobanders from 40 threw 10. Then you have the west coast big amps, a bunch of big amps down in the south east and a bunch of home brew guys that build amps that will do way over 10Kw and really you talk about honor roll and the big pile ups for a new one plus are bitch about an un fair advantage the remote stations might give a little pistol, are you guys for real! Since I got into this hobby I have seen stations that ran the really big amps, the ones who run over 5Kw, those guys its a;l about the horse race, not the contry but there are a whole bunch who un between 2-4Kw that are hord core DXers and they use evry advantage to snag that new one so lets be real that like saying you own a 1966-67 Corvette sting ray with a 427CI 425HP car and only drive it 55mph, really...lol. Some of you are really funny if you really read your own posts and look at all the chest beatin going on here and your afraid that remote ham radio is gonna change your small dx world.
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K7CO
Member

Posts: 291




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« Reply #128 on: March 22, 2014, 06:07:50 AM »

I will take a break from this particular thread for a week or so, maybe less. My final comment  this week is one I stated earlier in the thread.

RemoteHamRadio.com got me back into the hobby, it renewed my vigor for DXing.  It is the reason I went to VK9X and made over 8,000 contacts. It is the reason I am going on another DXpedition this fall/winter. It is the reason I am going to Visalia here in a few weeks.  It is the reason that more than a thousand folks worked me at VK9X for an all time new one.   Say what you will about the technology, this forum is using that same internet technology. I am putting more RF into the sky because of this remote ability. With that being said, I often head over to my parents and enjoy using the 3 element SteppIR at 90 feet.   

I look forward to working many of you during the May W1AW/7 event. I am the Utah coordinator and more than likely I will be remoting to a Utah station.

73 and I do enjoy this thread, if we all agreed that would be boring.
Jon
K7CO
VK9X/K7CO
W1AW/7 Utah
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WO7R
Member

Posts: 694




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« Reply #129 on: March 22, 2014, 06:13:05 AM »

The more power you run, the more complex your station.

Feedlines, matching, all get more difficult.  I'm sure some people run over the 1.5KW limit, but many more can't even be bothered to run up to the KW.

Lots of 500 to 800 watt amps for sale out there.

That suggests to me that not everyone is interested in that kind of cheating.

I don't get how that's relevant to the discussion.  It would be very difficult for the "for rent" stations to cheat as far as power goes, because they'd have to worry about even one honest client that would blow the whistle on them.

But, you can't predicate your attitude towards remote stations on the fact that some people cheat the current rules.  If that's your standard, you're already in the world of "anything goes", so I don't get how you can object to anything after that.
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WS3N
Member

Posts: 686




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« Reply #130 on: March 22, 2014, 08:24:40 AM »

What advantage? Is anyone who uses this somehow stopping you from making a QSO? Are you arguing that there are so many big stations now on the air that your signal is being swamped?

It's not just about right now, think about the future of DXing once we start travelling down this road.

Think 10 years from now and there are 30 Major Remote sites on the west coast all charging 49 cents per minute.
Then think of say a P5 activation and instead of the big guns of the west coast firing off on the first 2-3 days and making their contacts, we have on top off that a non stop barage of Hams from the East coast and midwest firing every minute from those 30 remote sites.  Every paying Ham using a 3 minute slice of time to make a QSO then handing it over to the next guy in the cue.  And it will be vice verse for the west coast when somebody like Monk Apollo comes on.

That's what Gene is talking about an unfair advantage that will no doubt be disallowed by the ARRL once it gets too big.

Give the people what they want. It's just a logical step in the quest - doing whatever it takes to get that QSO so you can put the paper on the wall, turning everything into a contest, with contest manners (an oxymoron) to go with it. A few minutes ago, I listened to VU4K go QRT because people (more like wild animals) would not stop calling. I doubt that I'll be doing this in 10 years.
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