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Author Topic: Amateur Radio vs CB  (Read 30270 times)
M6GOM
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Posts: 1050




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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2014, 07:18:21 PM »


6 dipoles on 11 meters does does something like 28 decibels.

No they don't. The gain is not the sum of each individual antenna.
Quote
Remember that the dipoles are the conical, and not 2 wires.
Then they're not dipoles are they? You may be talking about a cage dipole. It does not have 28dB of gain. Even DX Blaster, a maker of them, says on their website they don't even claim 12dB of gain. Cage dipoles have approximately 0.5dB gain more than a regular dipole according to a study done in AntenneX magazine. What cage dipoles do have is a far wider bandwidth than a regular dipole because all the elements are seen effectively as one big fat one.

Quote
Study very early radar, the stuff prior to microwave and a dish.


They weren't dipoles.

You don't know what you're talking about and you're now starting to embarrass yourself. I would quit digging if I were you.
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W9FIB
Member

Posts: 2056




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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2014, 07:31:31 PM »


6 dipoles on 11 meters does does something like 28 decibels.

No they don't. The gain is not the sum of each individual antenna.
Quote
Remember that the dipoles are the conical, and not 2 wires.
Then they're not dipoles are they? You may be talking about a cage dipole. It does not have 28dB of gain. Even DX Blaster, a maker of them, says on their website they don't even claim 12dB of gain. Cage dipoles have approximately 0.5dB gain more than a regular dipole according to a study done in AntenneX magazine. What cage dipoles do have is a far wider bandwidth than a regular dipole because all the elements are seen effectively as one big fat one.

Quote
Study very early radar, the stuff prior to microwave and a dish.


They weren't dipoles.

You don't know what you're talking about and you're now starting to embarrass yourself. I would quit digging if I were you.

That is his specialty, to dig himself in. Don't waste your time, just put him on ignore. The fastest way to get rid of this idiot is to ignore him completely.
Logged

Happy being an Amateur Extra!
Nothing says CB on my printed license.
Ares/Races but no lights or crown vic.
KA5PIU
Member

Posts: 446




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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2014, 09:03:16 PM »

Hello.

Take a look at the old Soviet OTH radar.
It indeed has well over 50 Decibel gain, and is what the Russians call conical dipoles.
The radar that detected the attack on Pearl Harbor was not a bunch of stacked dipoles?
The reason that the conical dipole array has so much gain is the fact that it acts as a steerable array.
The woodpecker is back, up and running.
And its signal gets swept from side to side.
One of the reasons the Russians knew a jamming signal was/is just that is the fact that is is detected in the sweeps as a fixed value signal from one point.
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AF5CC
Member

Posts: 184




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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2014, 10:30:28 PM »


He runs legal power into a legal antenna, it is just something like 30 decibels gain.


It probably does have 30DB gain over a brick.

John AF5CC
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KA5PIU
Member

Posts: 446




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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2014, 12:04:05 AM »

Hello.

The very first time I was it, I was amused.
The FCC rules, as written, only allow 4 watts out from a transmitter, each transmitter has to be type accepted.
External amplifiers are prohibited.
But, how hard is it to take the old Hy Gain "One Hander CB, rig, 6 trunk units to 1 control head?
This is 100% legal.
This requires very careful phase control to keep everything in sync.
The fact that someone actually did this has me impressed!
You have to think outside the box sometimes.
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NO2A
Member

Posts: 1176




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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2014, 08:13:53 AM »

Who do you talk to when your 11m band isn`t open? (which is most of the time)Do you talk to friends down the street? This is totally absurd why a fellow ham has to tell another why cb sucks!
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K8AXW
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Posts: 6175




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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2014, 10:09:08 AM »

2A:  You've been snagged! 
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N6AJR
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Posts: 9930




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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2014, 11:11:10 AM »

The rules for CB used to state something like 5 watts input, 4 watts max output for power and also had a stipulation about not being able to make contacts of over 250 miles or some such. So any long distance "skip" is illegal . I too was a licensed CB'er way back when. For a little while in the early 1960's, CB was a pretty fun radio service.  But now not so much. I prefer ham radio these days ( as I have for the last 45 or 50 years.). To  each to his or her own, but please, no trolling. And how much is 30 db times 4 watts???
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W4KYR
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Posts: 1550




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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2014, 12:19:00 PM »

 I think you will get more response on CB than on 2 meters on the interstate highways. Big rig drivers still use CB and if you are stuck in a traffic jam there is always a truck just up ahead who is able to see what is going on and report what is going on. Try getting information report on 146.520 (or even on a popular repeater).

From a standpoint of Ecomms, what better way is there than CB to find out what roads are closed, flooded out or iced up after some storm comes through and knocks out the grid? The truckers are the eyes and the ears of the road, they will be the first to know what is going on.

And during some extended power outage CB radio can be an inexpensive way for non hams around town to stay in touch with each other. Use the car battery for power.

I am still reminded by the reports of Hurricane Sandy in NY and NJ in 2012 where people had their cars flooded out, the cell towers stopped working and of course no one had power. Their cell phones were nothing but expensive plastic paper weights at that point.

One report I watched, the hurricane victims were actually asking the TV reporter for information as they had no way to seek out information. A couple of CB radios passed out around a couple of blocks could have kept some people informed.

Naturally Ham radio would have been the better choice, but we are talking about providing people a means of communicating with each other for next to nothing in cost with no licensing after some big emergency. These days one can find working CB radios from $10 and up on ebay.

CB radio still has a place and I think it should be utilized as a just yet another tool in the "Emergency communications tool box".  Have several CB radios ready to lend out in case of a disaster.

.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 12:22:10 PM by W4KYR » Logged

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W9FIB
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Posts: 2056




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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2014, 06:04:42 AM »

I think you will get more response on CB than on 2 meters on the interstate highways. Big rig drivers still use CB and if you are stuck in a traffic jam there is always a truck just up ahead who is able to see what is going on and report what is going on. Try getting information report on 146.520 (or even on a popular repeater).

From a standpoint of Ecomms, what better way is there than CB to find out what roads are closed, flooded out or iced up after some storm comes through and knocks out the grid? The truckers are the eyes and the ears of the road, they will be the first to know what is going on.

And during some extended power outage CB radio can be an inexpensive way for non hams around town to stay in touch with each other. Use the car battery for power.

I am still reminded by the reports of Hurricane Sandy in NY and NJ in 2012 where people had their cars flooded out, the cell towers stopped working and of course no one had power. Their cell phones were nothing but expensive plastic paper weights at that point.

One report I watched, the hurricane victims were actually asking the TV reporter for information as they had no way to seek out information. A couple of CB radios passed out around a couple of blocks could have kept some people informed.

Naturally Ham radio would have been the better choice, but we are talking about providing people a means of communicating with each other for next to nothing in cost with no licensing after some big emergency. These days one can find working CB radios from $10 and up on ebay.

CB radio still has a place and I think it should be utilized as a just yet another tool in the "Emergency communications tool box".  Have several CB radios ready to lend out in case of a disaster.

.

Actually so would a battery AM radio that can tune in the local news station. Far more accurate then 4Th hand info on CB. And most vehicles that travelled those highways long got off the road, so the eyes and ears were gone too.
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Happy being an Amateur Extra!
Nothing says CB on my printed license.
Ares/Races but no lights or crown vic.
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6252




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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2014, 06:36:34 AM »

I think you will get more response on CB than on 2 meters on the interstate highways. Big rig drivers still use CB and if you are stuck in a traffic jam there is always a truck just up ahead who is able to see what is going on and report what is going on. Try getting information report on 146.520 (or even on a popular repeater)....

Even that is going by the wayside.  With the newer GPS systems, you can get traffic reports that show you to get off a road and take an alternate route to avoid tie-ups and congestion.  CB is going by the wayside for that reason, and the only reason that some truckers still use CB rigs is yack with other truckers to keep themselves occupied while driving, or to get their door assignments at terminals and warehouses.  Even they use the GPS systems to get from point A to point B.
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M6GOM
Member

Posts: 1050




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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2014, 07:21:11 AM »



I am still reminded by the reports of Hurricane Sandy in NY and NJ in 2012 where people had their cars flooded out, the cell towers stopped working and of course no one had power. Their cell phones were nothing but expensive plastic paper weights at that point.

So am I. Coming from a country that sees such events on an annual basis I found it incredulous the destruction that happened in what is supposed to be the world's leading country. I was absolutely gobsmacked when I read what the wind speeds were. We call that a winter storm here in the UK and other than the odd roof tile falling off, the odd 500 year old tree falling down and the odd 200 year old chimney stack giving up the ghost life continues as normal.
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KA5PIU
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Posts: 446




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« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2014, 09:19:36 AM »

Hello.

NYC is an electric city, and when the subway filled with water (underground) transportation for 80% of all New Yorkers was not working.
Than there were the fires, lack of gasoline, etc.
In short, the city quit working, it shorted out.
People who went with cellphones wholesale lost service as cell towers became submerged or they could find no place to recharge the handsets.
By the 4th day, getting food into the city started becoming a problem, normally done with trucks delivering to hunts point.
Than the truckers started to use the CB radios, GMRS radios, Sat Comms like the Qualcomm units.
Finally, the city had big trucks driving on actual city streets, making deliveries to schools and shelters.
Taxicabs who could not get gasoline and where over 300 were damaged in the flood, were very scarce.
The CB channels were flooded as well, but with traffic.
One of the hybrid truck chassis for the reefer units was being for its generator to power a school being used as a shelter.
And food was rotting, tons of it.
The stench was like something died, thousands of something died!
It took a few weeks to get things back to normal.
I went to a truck stop, got 300 gallons of fuel, returned to NYC, took the trash from BASF to the recycling center, and we pumped 200 gallons of fuel into a genset.
Returned to the truck stop, got 250 gallons, did the paperwork for fuel tax exemption and fuel cost reimbursement. and went to Ohio.
From there, Mr coffee, and a shipment of Coffee makers to Texas, and home.
I did see hams scurrying about, but stayed away.
At that point I decided that Emcomm was fantastic! a fantastic joke!
Yes, perhaps 20 miles on the CB with just a few blocks in the city.
2 miles on GMRS.
But sat comms work everywhere there is clear sky.
Cellphones were dead, everywhere.
I could send a text and it would not go anywhere until I left the area.
Yes, CB does have its use.
The cops and fire had working radios, but cellphones were dead.
We, the drivers, had all of our normal communications working, and GPS.
Everything was working, and we have the thermoelectric coolers filled with food, carry at least 20 gallons of water, and are prepared to stay in one place for a week self contained.

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WI8P
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Posts: 588




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« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2014, 10:19:55 AM »



I am still reminded by the reports of Hurricane Sandy in NY and NJ in 2012 where people had their cars flooded out, the cell towers stopped working and of course no one had power. Their cell phones were nothing but expensive plastic paper weights at that point.

So am I. Coming from a country that sees such events on an annual basis I found it incredulous the destruction that happened in what is supposed to be the world's leading country. I was absolutely gobsmacked when I read what the wind speeds were. We call that a winter storm here in the UK and other than the odd roof tile falling off, the odd 500 year old tree falling down and the odd 200 year old chimney stack giving up the ghost life continues as normal.

You aren't taking into consideration a few things.  Take London and stretch it out along a stretch of your coast line where the land is a maximum of 10 feet above sea level (and a lot lower in many places), then hit it with a hurricane and the tidal surge that accompanied it, and you will have a far better understanding what this 'winter storm' was like and why it created the damage it caused.
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AF5CC
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Posts: 184




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« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2014, 01:05:10 PM »

The rules for CB used to state something like 5 watts input, 4 watts max output for power and also had a stipulation about not being able to make contacts of over 250 miles or some such.

Suppose you work another CBer who is 100 miles east of you, but you do it using longpath?  Is that illegal?

John AF5CC
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