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Author Topic: 73sssssssssss  (Read 29342 times)
K9YLI
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Posts: 1185




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« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2014, 07:58:19 AM »

well just what are  "regards"..  actually  a bunch of nice things to say, but , just like a    'dozen eggs'is a bunch, the   dozen  in singular,,,,     so also  is   regards    singular  ..

so why is   multiple   regards wrong.
I can  donate    dozens of eggs to the  refrigerator.  plural plurals..

and  why not   callsign   for  ID  or     call sign  friday..
are you tossing your call sign out for   bragging rights,  or someone who just turned on radio
think you are calling  someone...  it  also may  be a gentle rerminder  for all in the  conversation
that the  10  minutes are about  up and  all should  ID..
or do you trow your call sign every time you stop transmitting, (every  30 seconds).
thats much more annoying....

to coin a phrase ,,  its  a hobby  stupid...(thank you james carville.)
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K0OD
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Posts: 2901




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« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2014, 08:06:19 AM »

Hard to argue with Maxim's use of the plural.

Many early QSL cards can be seen on the web. While most say "73",  The Old Man was consistent in signing "73's" on his 1AW/W1AW cards.

QSL cards didn't come into use until about 1921, so cards aren't proof of jargon at ham radio's birth. At age 17, HPM had been the youngest member of MIT class of 1886 and likely would have been aware of Hertz's experiments. Later he would have followed Marconi's tests and probably listened in to wireless. 73 was land-line shorthand. While Hiram Percy was never a telegrapher, he'd been on the air since about 1909.  HPM was older and better educated than the 1920s "riff raff," often teens or returning soldiers, when the QSL "fad" hit [QST referred to it as a fad]. HPM was there when it all began.

73's, es Spark Forever 
.     
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W9BB
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Posts: 1263




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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2014, 08:22:57 AM »

I honestly don't get "worked up" about trival things...too much out there to be really concerned about....

My handle is...oh, sorry, name here is...LOL
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K8AXW
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Posts: 6161




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« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2014, 09:08:21 AM »

Quote
too much out there to be really concerned about.

Too much here, there, everywhere; to be concerned about asinine stuff like this!  Mercy!!
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N9KX
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Posts: 2036




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« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2014, 09:17:59 AM »

well just what are  "regards"..  actually  a bunch of nice things to say, but , just like a    'dozen eggs'is a bunch, the   dozen  in singular,,,,     so also  is   regards    singular  ..

so why is   multiple   regards wrong.
I can  donate    dozens of eggs to the  refrigerator.  plural plurals..

and  why not   callsign   for  ID  or     call sign  friday..
are you tossing your call sign out for   bragging rights,  or someone who just turned on radio
think you are calling  someone...  it  also may  be a gentle rerminder  for all in the  conversation
that the  10  minutes are about  up and  all should  ID..
or do you trow your call sign every time you stop transmitting, (every  30 seconds).
thats much more annoying....


when i upgraded from Novice to General in 1977 and began my first phone conversations on the air, everyone ID'ed at the beginning and end of each transmission.  (the same was true for CW).  Somewhere down the line that drastically changed.  

I then went  QRT for the most part of 3 decades -- although I kept renewing my Advanced class license then because I had worked so hard to earn it as a teen.  When I became active again in 2008, ID norms had completely changed (as had discourse in general).  Did the FCC relax the ID requirements or were they just re-interpreted by hams?

when I read the first post in this thread I agreed with the premise that 73's was poor form,
but having read all the comments and found images of a lot of old (1920's) QSL cards that had "73's" printed on them --  


-- I now have no problem with it and appreciate your point about the use of dozens.  

dozens & dozens of 73's to all,

Rob K9AIM
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K0OD
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« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2014, 10:52:19 AM »

And from the other side of the pond comes this recently discovered card showing "73s." Op claims to be the first amateur to work the USA from Britain. Note card says : "Also low-power set (5 watt) .  Early specific QRP set?

Old cards are great fun to study. They can uniquely settle some arguments about the distant past. For example, some contend that "RS/T" must be exchanged for a valid contact. If true, the first ham contact didn't take place until around 1931.  Smiley



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WB6DGN
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Posts: 618




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« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2014, 08:06:38 PM »

Well...granted, as far as I'm concerned, the subject of this thread is "much ado over nothing" and, probably, wouldn't be worthy of reading were it not for the neat historical tidbits tucked into it every now and then.  For me, that has made it all worthwhile.  However I just can't resist this variation of the "insanity":

Some people wrote 73s (the plural of 73) and, generally the subject of this thread;  but many others wrote 73's, the POSSESSIVE form of 73.  So.....my question then is (I warned you I couldn't resist bringing this up) WHAT DOES 73 OWN???  And, how can an inanimate object own anything?  Now, this should be good for, at least, another four or five pages, don't you think?

Tom
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 08:09:45 PM by WB6DGN » Logged
N9KX
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Posts: 2036




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« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2014, 08:20:39 PM »

[...] I just can't resist this variation of the "insanity":

Some people wrote 73s (the plural of 73) and, generally the subject of this thread;  but many others wrote 73's, the POSSESSIVE form of 73.  So.....my question then is (I warned you I couldn't resist bringing this up) WHAT DOES 73 OWN???  And, how can an inanimate object own anything?  Now, this should be good for, at least, another four or five pages, don't you think?

Tom
you asked for it!  Angry

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/apostrophes-are-a-growing-concern-in-grouchy-grammarians-gardens/story-e6frg6zo-1226139323845

Apostrophes are a growing concern in grouchy grammarians' gardens

IMRE SALUSINSZKY THE AUSTRALIAN SEPTEMBER 17, 2011 12:00AM


THE apostrophe is the plaster gnome in the garden of written English: ubiquitous, decorative and often unnecessary. While the semicolon (or "winking comma") is disappearing because younger writers don't understand how to use it, its evil cousin the apostrophe is spreading like privet.

But success may prove the undoing of the "flying comma", with experts saying the time for a comprehensive weeding program has arrived.

When a colleague recently pointed me to the website of a Melbourne outfit called Craig Thomson Entertainment, I was struck less by the coincidence in the company's name than by the labels on the links to its various services, which include: "duo's," "venue's" and "wedding's".

This is the famous "greengrocer's apostrophe" (or, arguably, "greengrocers' apostrophe") so named because the superfluous apostrophe is reputedly a common feature on hastily scribbled blackboards advertising today's prices of "apple's," "tomato's" and so on.

According to Neil James from the Plain English Foundation, this most common mistake - confusing a plural ending in "s" with a possessive - is a result of the fact we have asked too much of the little apostrophe.

"I'm not in the camp of wanting to abolish it, but there are a couple of anomalies with the apostrophe," says James.

"We are asking two features, the apostrophe and the letter 's', to perform three functions: number, omission and possession.

"Mostly that works, and is logical, but there are a couple of cases where it gets really difficult."

By itself, at the end of a noun, "s" signifies a plural; in concert with an apostrophe, it can indicate a possessive ("John's cat") or a contraction ("John's going to be late").

Even highly educated writers can turn into purveyors of fruit and vegetables when the apostrophe looms.

Former Sydney Morning Herald journalist Margo Kingston once wrote about "John Howard's concerted attempts to close down domestic debate on the Yank's threatened war on Iraq", creating the mental image of a singular, gigantic American lumbering through the Middle East.

James highlights two especially tricky cases. One concerns possessive pronouns ending in "s", such as "his" or "hers" or "its". It feels like they should contain an apostrophe; however, by convention, they don't.

An easy enough rule, but one unfortunately muddied by the fact "it's" also exists, as a contraction. ("It's = it is": if I had a dollar for every time I wrote that in the margin of a student essay, I wouldn't be writing these articles now.)

But the area of confusion James labels a "real corker" is possessives formed with names ending in "s".

That poem about an old vase: is it "Keats's ode" or "Keats' ode"?

Most people, and most style guides (including ours at The Weekend Australian), prefer the former. But "Jesus's" or "Mephistopheles's" or "Menzies's" (not that I'm comparing him to either of the first two) just don't sit right.

Macquarie University grammarian Pam Peters raises a further thorny issue, the formation of possessives from plurals ending in "s". This is one of two places where the proliferating apostrophe is actually disappearing. My daughter attends Pymble Ladies' College but, according to the NSW Department of Education website, many of her friends attend North Sydney Girls High School.

Thousands of men and women belong to the Australian Workers' Union, but thousands of their comrades belong to the Transport Workers Union.

Without a doubt, all four institutions carried a terminal apostrophe back in the day.

And you know what? Peters isn't fussed.

"In a phrase like 'geologists conference', the geologists are a descriptor of whatever noun follows," she says. "They're not possessors of that noun but are related through it."

Peters is fine with phrases such as "drivers licence" and "visitors book", and says the apostrophe is "losing its force as it extends from the singular to the plural".

"It was brought in to distinguish the possessive from the plural, and if we add it back to the plural we get none of the distinction that was intended," she says.

Nor is she concerned about the decision, now decades old, to drop the apostrophe from Australian place names.

She is unmoved at my disgust at having to turn left each morning at Pearces corner (rather than "Pearce's" corner, as it once was ) in outer northern Sydney.

"Pearce doesn't own the corner," she insists. "It's just a name. Is it necessary to show possession?"

Well, good luck to the good professor if she wants to extract the apostrophe from contexts where actual possession is not indicated.

In my view, she's got Buckley's.

see also:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/376342?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21104439656947
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K0OD
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« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2014, 11:18:58 PM »

The 1AW cards I've seen all use "Best 73's." 



And this interesting note on a Maxim Silencer Co. business form.

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KI5WW
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Posts: 86




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« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2014, 05:57:48 PM »

You guys are so much more into ham radio than i am.  Sigh".............
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AA4PB
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Posts: 14277




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« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2014, 06:33:12 PM »

Does the fact that HPM did it:
1) make it grammatically correct?
2) mean that all hams must do it that way?
3) mean that he didn't care if it was grammatically correct so no one should?

By the way, as a new ham I was first corrected about using 73s in 1958 - so its nothing new.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 06:35:22 PM by AA4PB » Logged
W9FIB
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Posts: 2051




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« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2014, 07:07:54 PM »

No. No. Yes.

But on the other hand it is slang. So it really doesn't make any difference how it is used.

To S or not to S, that is the question. Only the people with too much time on their hands are the ones that complain 1 way or the other.
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Happy being an Amateur Extra!
Nothing says CB on my printed license.
Ares/Races but no lights or crown vic.
K0OD
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Posts: 2901




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« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2014, 04:26:40 AM »

What's unpardonable is the almost universal use of the plural 88s (or 88's) when we all know that 88 already means "love and kisses" or perhaps "hugs."

Silly stuff... Anyone know whether MRS HPM was a ham so we can see how she signed her cards?
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N2EY
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Posts: 4373




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« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2014, 06:35:15 AM »

It doesn`t bother me. What I am tired of hearing is,"KC2XXX for ID". When you say your callsign that`s a legal id. When I id on a repeater all I say is,"NO2A". No need to say "listening". Why? Because it`s obvious you`re listening,monitoring,whatever.

There's actually a reason to say "for ID".

The usual practice is to say one's call at the end of a transmission. Many hams don't even say "over" or "go", they just end with their call and that's it.

The reason to say "for ID" is to prevent doubling. It tells the listener that you are NOT turning it over to them! If used correctly, it makes sense.

As for HPM's QSL showing "Best 73's", it's triply wrong:

1) "Best" is redundant
2) It shouldn't be plural
3) It shouldn't have an apostrophe. (The apostrophe is used for possessives and contractions, NOT PLURALS!!!!)

But you have to understand a bit about Maxim to understand why his QSL has "Best 73's" on it.

Maxim was a dyed-in-the-wool Connecticut Yankee. A real New Englander, with the classic Yankee dry sense of humor - sometimes too subtle for non-Yankees to catch.

The "Best 73's" is a joke, nothing more. Remember, HPM is the guy who wrote all of the "The Old Man" stories, in all their glory.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 618




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« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2014, 12:54:09 AM »

K9AIM,
Think I'm going to switch to Chinese.  At least there are no apostrophes (boy, was I tempted to put an apostrophe there just for the fun of it).  By the way, I wonder how they show possession in Chinese.  But, after having the grumpiest old battleaxes on the planet shove "English" down my throat for nigh onto 12 years, I think I've got "squatter's rights" to complain about its (perceived) misuse!  Besides, it takes the tension off when the electronics discussions become too serious. How can you take an interference discussion seriously when you're got something really important, like a deviant comma, to deal with.
Tom
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