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Author Topic: FTDI serial to USB driver surprize  (Read 25130 times)
NK7Z
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2014, 07:40:00 AM »

Not at all but it does about you and not me. Not sure why you are defending a illegal clone. It does not brick any device, only cloned chips. What better way to stop inferior cloned chips than kill them when using a OEM driver. FTDI spend time and money on drivers why support clones for free.

So using your logic you would have no problem with your car being destroyed if you happened to purchase gasoline that was produced from black market sanctioned Iranian oil, correct?
No digitally signed user agreement for gas yet, so your question does not apply.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 07:45:23 AM by NK7Z » Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1293




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« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2014, 07:45:28 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
W8JX
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Posts: 12359




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« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2014, 07:53:52 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

You just do not get it do you??? It does not apply to counterfeit hardware. You have no right to use counterfeit products. You can use them till you get caught. Take it up with OEM for adaptor
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 1880


WWW

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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2014, 08:00:45 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

In your own quote above, note above the words: "intentionally causes damage without authorization", as I have mentioned before, YOU authorized the changes, so it is legal...  Again, I am not defending them, nor do I think it was the "right" thing to do, but it was legal!  When you agree to a terms and conditions contract-- well-- you agree to the terms and conditions...
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 1880


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2014, 08:01:53 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

You just do not get it do you??? It does not apply to counterfeit hardware. You have no right to use counterfeit products. You can use them till you get caught. Take it up with OEM for adaptor
That is the right course of action, raise hell with the OEM!
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2014, 08:42:22 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

You just do not get it do you??? It does not apply to counterfeit hardware. You have no right to use counterfeit products. You can use them till you get caught. Take it up with OEM for adaptor

You just do not get it, do you? FTDI has no right to consciously alter my equipment without legal action. FTDI seems to be getting it now.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2014, 08:43:49 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

In your own quote above, note above the words: "intentionally causes damage without authorization", as I have mentioned before, YOU authorized the changes, so it is legal...  Again, I am not defending them, nor do I think it was the "right" thing to do, but it was legal!  When you agree to a terms and conditions contract-- well-- you agree to the terms and conditions...

When I authorize the installation of the driver, I do not authorize willful and malicious damage to my property.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12359




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2014, 08:57:31 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

In your own quote above, note above the words: "intentionally causes damage without authorization", as I have mentioned before, YOU authorized the changes, so it is legal...  Again, I am not defending them, nor do I think it was the "right" thing to do, but it was legal!  When you agree to a terms and conditions contract-- well-- you agree to the terms and conditions...

When I authorize the installation of the driver, I do not authorize willful and malicious damage to my property.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Illegal is illegal. You get caught yell at OEM not FTDI.
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2014, 09:10:52 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

In your own quote above, note above the words: "intentionally causes damage without authorization", as I have mentioned before, YOU authorized the changes, so it is legal...  Again, I am not defending them, nor do I think it was the "right" thing to do, but it was legal!  When you agree to a terms and conditions contract-- well-- you agree to the terms and conditions...

When I authorize the installation of the driver, I do not authorize willful and malicious damage to my property.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Illegal is illegal. You get caught yell at OEM not FTDI.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Illegal is illegal. Wrong is wrong. FTDI should not be altering my equipment. BTW, I am not the only one holding this opinion. I am not the only one thinking this may well be illegal. You really check the various news items and blogosphere.

For example:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141023/15502828928/microsoft-windows-update-completely-kill-devices-that-might-possibly-be-used-piracy.shtml

Logged

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Rick KK4GGL
NK7Z
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Posts: 1880


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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2014, 09:13:57 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

In your own quote above, note above the words: "intentionally causes damage without authorization", as I have mentioned before, YOU authorized the changes, so it is legal...  Again, I am not defending them, nor do I think it was the "right" thing to do, but it was legal!  When you agree to a terms and conditions contract-- well-- you agree to the terms and conditions...

When I authorize the installation of the driver, I do not authorize willful and malicious damage to my property.
You appear to have authorized a change which "may cause harm", (from your own quote upthread), when you approved the install, in fact you agree you did the install, and that there was a user agreement.  You even quoted part of the user agreement back...  FTDI made a change for which the existing software, (read that as software which appears to have been running an illegally cloned chip), was not prepared, while FTDI's software, (read that as software to run a chip the maker believes is their own), was able to deal with the changes...  Legally I believe the problem is your problem because you failed to fully understand the ramifications of YOUR decision to run the driver install software. 

Just because you don't like a change made by software, and because that change toasted your cable does not make it a willful and malicious damage to your property.
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 1880


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2014, 09:15:17 AM »

No, they don't. They do have the right to file a legal action...
We have already established, that FDTI did not change your setup, YOU changed your setup by installing the provided drivers, and agreeing to their terms and conditions by pressing the agree button during install.  FDTI has only responding to the bad PR they got, and made a decision to remove the code that YOU executed which changed your setup.

In my opinion, a good choice on their part to remove the software bomb, but they have been totally within their legal rights to do as they have done...  They could have wiped your HD, and if you agreed to it, (by installing the drivers, and agreeing as you did), it becomes legal...  It is not right, nor is the decent thing to do, but it is legal.  The key here is you agreed to the terms and conditions.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 (a)(5)(A) "(a) Whoever— (5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer; ... shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section"

You just do not get it do you??? It does not apply to counterfeit hardware. You have no right to use counterfeit products. You can use them till you get caught. Take it up with OEM for adaptor

You just do not get it, do you? FTDI has no right to consciously alter my equipment without legal action. FTDI seems to be getting it now.
FTDI did not alter your equipment, they altered your software.  FTDI got exactly what they wanted...  Think about it...  A bunch of illegal product got removed, they probably won't get sued, and if they do, they probably won't lose, and if they do lose, they will probably make more money selling new chips to replace the fake ones...  They win...  No matter what happens.  A well thought out legal strategy...  While you will find many more people that agree with you, it does not change the facts.  You appear to have agreed to the changes... 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 09:23:01 AM by NK7Z » Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12359




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2014, 09:22:26 AM »

GGL is a bit brain dead on this. While a consumer may not be legally accountable for unwittingly using pirate hardware they none the less have no right to expect it to work and be supported. This is reason for copyrights and patents. If other want  to think otherwise then they are brain dead on subject too.
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 1880


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2014, 09:27:36 AM »

GGL is a bit brain dead on this. While a consumer may not be legally accountable for unwittingly using pirate hardware they none the less have no right to expect it to work and be supported. This is reason for copyrights and patents. If other want  to think otherwise then they are brain dead on subject too.
Someone, and I believe it may have been you indicated that the OEMs should be held to task, and I agree...  It appears that the OEMs involved did not perform the due diligence as needed, or did not care...  Either way, OEM may be liable to replace the dead cables...  If I had a dead cable, I would contact my OEM for that cable, and demand a replacement, with original chips in it.  In most cases I doubt the customer even knows what is happening along this line, and the chip maker really should have approached the issue differently, but...  Their methods do have a sort of "Darth Vader" like way of fixing the issue.  Message from FTDI to consumers: "These aren't the chips you are looking for... Move along...  Move along..."
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 09:34:03 AM by NK7Z » Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12359




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2014, 09:29:59 AM »

GGL is a bit brain dead on this. While a consumer may not be legally accountable for unwittingly using pirate hardware they none the less have no right to expect it to work and be supported. This is reason for copyrights and patents. If other want  to think otherwise then they are brain dead on subject too.
Someone, and I believe it may have been you indicated that the OEMs should be held to task, and I agree...  It appears that the OEMs involved did not perform the due diligence as needed, or did not care...  Either way, OEM may be liable to replace the dead cables...  If I had a dead cable, I would contact my OEM for that cable, and demand a replacement, with original chips in it.  In most cases I doubt the customer even knows what is happening along this line, and the chip maker really should have approached the issue differently, but...  Their methods do have a sort of "Darth Vader" like way of fixing the issue.

It is quite possible that cloning problem is so big that drastic measures may be needed.
Logged

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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2014, 11:42:58 AM »

Just because you don't like a change made by software, and because that change toasted your cable does not make it a willful and malicious damage to your property.

Yes, it does, if the software was written to specifically make your equipment useless.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
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