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Author Topic: FTDI serial to USB driver surprize  (Read 25149 times)
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1293




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« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2014, 11:44:48 AM »

GGL is a bit brain dead on this. While a consumer may not be legally accountable for unwittingly using pirate hardware they none the less have no right to expect it to work and be supported. This is reason for copyrights and patents. If other want  to think otherwise then they are brain dead on subject too.

That doesn't mean very much, coming from you. You might to do some reading on the results of this supposed upgrade. Or not. You don't seem to worry to much about your credibility.
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
W8JX
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Posts: 12364




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« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2014, 03:23:50 PM »

GGL is a bit brain dead on this. While a consumer may not be legally accountable for unwittingly using pirate hardware they none the less have no right to expect it to work and be supported. This is reason for copyrights and patents. If other want  to think otherwise then they are brain dead on subject too.

That doesn't mean very much, coming from you. You might to do some reading on the results of this supposed upgrade. Or not. You don't seem to worry to much about your credibility.

Actually it means a lot coming from me. You are just in denial
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
NK7Z
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Posts: 1883


WWW

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« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2014, 04:01:46 PM »

Just because you don't like a change made by software, and because that change toasted your cable does not make it a willful and malicious damage to your property.

Yes, it does, if the software was written to specifically make your equipment useless.
For which you have zero proof as of yet...  Your feelings have zero to do with it, facts are all that count... 

Now that you seem to have entered the universe in which no proof is needed, no proof beyond a vague feeling is offered, and one can just assume that someone is guilty until proven innocent, then get on line and rail, maybe you are right...  However in my world, we all still live under the rule of law, (thank goodness), and until you have something that proves without a shadow of a doubt they plotted to brick your cable, and you prove it in a court of law, you are simply wrong...  In your alternate universe FDTI could sue YOU for using a counterfeit cable, even if you did not know it because YOU have no right to use a counterfeit cable in the first place...  Be careful what you wish for...  I would not want to live in that universe at all...

My guess however is that the next cable you get will be genuine.  I am also growing tired of giving you valid reasons, having you cherry pick answers and ignoring the actual discussion by simply stating over and over again FDTI has no right to  blah blah blah...  So I am done arguing this with you... 

I just leave this with you...  The only person who modified his software is you...  You agreed to the Terms and conditions, and you hit the go button.  You did not take the time to read the agreement, (no one really does anymore), so you got burned...  This is not fun, not not well thought out by FTDI, and probably could, and should have been handled differently by FDTI, but I am not going to assume it was intentional until I see something beyond vague accusations.  Really-- as of now, you are wrong, and it is too bad you lost your cable...  Call your vendor, and demand a replacement cable, you will probably get it.

I am not trying to go off on you here, just point out that your hardware was not modified, only software was modified, and you agreed to the modification...  Take care, and I am sorry you lost your cable...
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




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« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2014, 04:04:38 PM »

GGL is a bit brain dead on this. While a consumer may not be legally accountable for unwittingly using pirate hardware they none the less have no right to expect it to work and be supported. This is reason for copyrights and patents. If other want  to think otherwise then they are brain dead on subject too.

That doesn't mean very much, coming from you. You might to do some reading on the results of this supposed upgrade. Or not. You don't seem to worry to much about your credibility.

Actually it means a lot coming from me. You are just in denial



AHAH Hah HAHAH HAH Ahhhaha HAHA ahHA ha ha...
Oh, you were serious?
AHAH Hah HAHAH HAH Ahhhaha HAHA ahHA ha ha...
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
K5TED
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2014, 07:29:38 PM »

Not at all but it does about you and not me. Not sure why you are defending a illegal clone. It does not brick any device, only cloned chips. What better way to stop inferior cloned chips than kill them when using a OEM driver. FTDI spend time and money on drivers why support clones for free.

So using your logic you would have no problem with your car being destroyed if you happened to purchase gasoline that was produced from black market sanctioned Iranian oil, correct?

Your logic equates the loss of multi thousand dollar vehicle with loss of a $9.95 USB Serial converter?

How would you feel if your multi thousand dollar vehicle lost control and crammed you and itself into a tree because of a counterfeit computer chip?

Context and hyperbole mostly don't mix..
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W7SMJ
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2014, 08:26:24 PM »

Not at all but it does about you and not me. Not sure why you are defending a illegal clone. It does not brick any device, only cloned chips. What better way to stop inferior cloned chips than kill them when using a OEM driver. FTDI spend time and money on drivers why support clones for free.

So using your logic you would have no problem with your car being destroyed if you happened to purchase gasoline that was produced from black market sanctioned Iranian oil, correct?
No digitally signed user agreement for gas yet, so your question does not apply.

Please explain.  What digitally signed user agreement?  The driver was installed by Windows Update.  When during this process is the user prompted to accept the user agreement???
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W7SMJ
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2014, 08:42:16 PM »

Not at all but it does about you and not me. Not sure why you are defending a illegal clone. It does not brick any device, only cloned chips. What better way to stop inferior cloned chips than kill them when using a OEM driver. FTDI spend time and money on drivers why support clones for free.

So using your logic you would have no problem with your car being destroyed if you happened to purchase gasoline that was produced from black market sanctioned Iranian oil, correct?

Your logic equates the loss of multi thousand dollar vehicle with loss of a $9.95 USB Serial converter?

How would you feel if your multi thousand dollar vehicle lost control and crammed you and itself into a tree because of a counterfeit computer chip?

Context and hyperbole mostly don't mix..

We are discussing principle here so yes, I am equating the two.  What makes you think these chips are only found in only $9.95 USB Serial cables?  These chips may be found in very expensive equipment.

As far as losing control of a vehicle and crashing into a tree due to a counterfeit chip, you can bet I would be extremely angry if it was due to the bricking of that chip by a device driver that was specifically written to brick the device by a vendor like FTDI.  I think I would have a great case!

In any case, if FTDI's actions were so just and within their right, why did they apologize, pull the driver and start work on a new one???
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K5TED
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2014, 09:22:52 PM »

FTDI pulled the driver because Microsoft asked them to do so. Microsoft is covering their own butt.

What if.. ( I love 'what if').. What if the fake FTDI chip had been unwittingly used in a car computer, made it into your car, failed and caused an accident?

What if a fake chip makes it into an airplane control device? What if it failed while using an FTDI driver that allowed it to function mostly unnoticed until the NTSB pried it out from a smoking crater and discovered the fake chip malfunctioned because it is fake and inherently faulty and sent an Airbus full of folks into eternity? What if a Windows Update the previous day would have killed the chip, thus bringing attention to it yesterday, when it could have been replaced, just before the plane left the hangar in preparation for today's doomed flight?

What if the fake chip makes it into a USB to Serial device in your shack, subsequently malfunctions, randomly changes frequency on your rig while you're in the can, keys up and starts transmitting a KW into a mis-tuned antenna. You return to a smoking hulk and then discover that the fake chip malfunctioned because it is a shoddy item that could have been disabled yesterday by a Windows Update, but wasn't? What if the KW amp burns out a coil out on the antenna, showering sparks onto your roof, causing a rampaging fire that takes out every home on your block? All because of a fake chip that wasn't disabled in yesterday's Windows Update. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Microsoft is ultimately responsible for drivers that are incorporated into Windows Updates. FTDI is ultimately responsible for making sure its own drivers aren't used with fake devices that can malfunction and cause problems.
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W7SMJ
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2014, 11:39:25 AM »

FTDI pulled the driver because Microsoft asked them to do so. Microsoft is covering their own butt.

What if.. ( I love 'what if').. What if the fake FTDI chip had been unwittingly used in a car computer, made it into your car, failed and caused an accident?

What if a fake chip makes it into an airplane control device? What if it failed while using an FTDI driver that allowed it to function mostly unnoticed until the NTSB pried it out from a smoking crater and discovered the fake chip malfunctioned because it is fake and inherently faulty and sent an Airbus full of folks into eternity? What if a Windows Update the previous day would have killed the chip, thus bringing attention to it yesterday, when it could have been replaced, just before the plane left the hangar in preparation for today's doomed flight?

What if the fake chip makes it into a USB to Serial device in your shack, subsequently malfunctions, randomly changes frequency on your rig while you're in the can, keys up and starts transmitting a KW into a mis-tuned antenna. You return to a smoking hulk and then discover that the fake chip malfunctioned because it is a shoddy item that could have been disabled yesterday by a Windows Update, but wasn't? What if the KW amp burns out a coil out on the antenna, showering sparks onto your roof, causing a rampaging fire that takes out every home on your block? All because of a fake chip that wasn't disabled in yesterday's Windows Update. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Microsoft is ultimately responsible for drivers that are incorporated into Windows Updates. FTDI is ultimately responsible for making sure its own drivers aren't used with fake devices that can malfunction and cause problems.

Agreed, Microsoft is covering their own butt because they know FTDI's actions won't stand up in court.

You have a lot of great "what if" scenarios, you're just missing the part where all these calamities were a result of FTDI's malicious driver update causing the chip failure.

I am unaware of any reliability issues with counterfeited FTDI chips.  Are you able to provide any data to support your assertion? 

FTDI's actions were done specifically to protect their IP, not for some noble reason like to weed out inferior or potentially deadly counterfeit chips, LOL!
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W8JX
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Posts: 12364




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« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2014, 02:12:23 PM »

FTDI did nothing illegal and has no court worries. MS is just worried about PR and nothing more.
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
G8YMW
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Posts: 671




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« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2014, 02:55:15 PM »

I'm sorry but FTDI HAS done wrong and have left themselves wide open for civil action.
Why didn't they go after the chip manufacturers and the companies that used them?
Most people  wouldn't know what was in the devices so why are they being penalized for someone else's cock up?
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73 de Tony
Windows 10:  Making me profane since March 2017
KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 5074




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« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2014, 04:23:29 PM »

I'm sorry but FTDI HAS done wrong and have left themselves wide open for civil action.
Why didn't they go after the chip manufacturers and the companies that used them?
Most people  wouldn't know what was in the devices so why are they being penalized for someone else's cock up?

I agree with that!
The only problem is that going after the Chinese is an impossible task.  You first need the various governments to get on board and that seems to be an impossibility since the Chinese seem to have everyone in their pockets.
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
K5TED
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2014, 05:07:33 PM »

Ignorance is no excuse.

There is no special clause that says if you are bereft of technical computer knowledge, but yet allow your computer to be automatically updated, including driver software for devices for which you have no expertise or understanding, and have knowingly installed hardware the provenance of which you do not know or care, that you are in a special reserved group of consumers entitled to nanny state or civil remuneration for your own ignorant stupidity.

In my opinion, if you are on the side of the whiners complaining about FTDI once and for all drawing attention to the problem of hardware counterfeiting, and taking proactive measures to prevent use of FTDI software with illegally cloned devices, then you are absolutely wrong, and fall into the hippy dippy societal and technical leech entitlement government cheese gimme gimme free camp.

Microsoft owns the distribution part of this, and is ultimately responsible for the disabling of possibly thousands of USB connected self gratification devices, which I suspect is the root trigger of most of these anti-FTDI posts.   



 
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 5074




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« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2014, 06:22:21 PM »

Ted you do know that about 95% of windows users have no idea how to even turn on or off user updates Cheesy
On all of our machines I have turned it off, but for most they don't have a clue that the option even exists.

BTW This has been a very good debate, it's nice to hear an intelligent debate on a forum.
I wish people at the top would start to listen and get to the root of this problem and stop hand holding with the Chinese.  I have said this before in another post.  I am very familiar with Chinese business practices, our company does direct business with them and I have several friends who fly over there a couple of times each year to do negotiations for merchandise.  From everything I have heard them say and from my own experience, these people are not our friends, they see America as a rung on the ladder to success and they are not afraid to step on us.  Personally I have no idea why people who go to political rallies with the old Independence flag "Don't Tread On Me" don't cut out the politics and start diverting their energy towards the real enemy.  While we remain divided they keep getting stronger.
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
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