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1-10 of 13 messages
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Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by K6LDX on February 27, 2003
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Hopefully, some legal beagle or realtor can confirm or correct this, but my understanding is that CC&Rs on residential property can show up in two formats:
First are the "overt" CC&Rs generated by homeowners' association rules. Hopefully, all amateurs contemplating a purchase involving a homeowners
association will check carefully and require FULL disclosure of CC&Rs and "rules" before making a purchase offer.
Second are what I call the "covert" type of CC&R: deed
restrictions placed in the property's legal description along with easement rights, etc. My understanding is that these can occur even with properties NOT involving homeowners associations and typically result because developers, anxious to obtain their permits, agree to add such language (at the behest of overzealous local municipality planning
boards) when the original subdivisions are made. (Presumably, enforcement of such CC&Rs falls to local municipalities?).
I have heard stories that the only time such restrictions are "disclosed" to the buyer is when he/she sits down with a two-inch stack of paperwork
to sign the final closing, and it is buried somewhere in the middle.
If one cannot be sure that all such restrictions are known prior to making a purchase offer (developers, realtors and seller will LIE!), perhaps the answer is to write conditions into the purchase offer requiring that ALL CC&Rs on the property must be disclosed in writing within X days of the date of offer and giving one the right to withdraw the offer if such restrictions are objectionable.
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by KG4RUL on February 28, 2003
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ABSOLOUTELY!
The only way to protect yourself is to make your offer contingent on disclosure. Also, make sure that the title insurance company is aware of your contingency.
Dennis - KG4RUL
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by WD6EJN on March 1, 2003
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It all comes down to what they talk about in their
little secret meetings!
I would suggest before putting up anything or even
approaching the management, or even before you move, plan an "intellegence" plan and attend meetings.
In the mean time I am trying to get hams with (severe) cc&rs together.
Keep an eye on posts here and arrl.org.
Also many management companies have web sites.
Keep an eye on the minutes and homeowners comments,complaints and anouncements.
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by WD6EJN on March 1, 2003
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Oh! I forgot,, if you rent a home you can check out an area then sign a contract for six months, instead
of what might turn out to be a lifetime!
Use caution when renting, many homeowners frown upon it, and you could be black listed for the entire
six months, this is what has happened to me and my mom
many times ,although we have no choice due to economy.
One time I confronted the management about the homeowners association president singled us out,,,their answer was "as a renter you have no rights!"
I have a plan though!!
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by KG4RUL on March 2, 2003
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Actually, what you as a renter have, are ALL the RIGHTS of the homeowner. Unfortunately, you also have ALL the RESPONSIBILITIES and RESTRICTIONS of the homeowner. In rare cases, the restrictions may have certain clauses specific to renters.
In other words, if the homeowner is in any way prohibited from erecting antennas, those prohibitions convey in their entirety to you as a renter.
Dennis - KG4RUL
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by WB2WIK on March 3, 2003
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The right to rescind at no penalty if stipulated conditions are not specifically met is always present in all real estate contracts. It is up to the buyer to stipulate the conditions and list them in the offer contract.
I always stipulate, "There shall be no covenants, conditions or restrictions prohibiting use of said property in any manner the buyer sees fit. The disclosure of any CC&R by either party during the term of this contract, up to and including escrow closure, is cause for immediate cancellation of this contract at no cost to buyer, and any and all deposits in support of purchase shall be returned to the buyer through escrow within five working days of such cancellation."
If the seller doesn't want to sign it, keep on looking.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by WA4MJF on March 4, 2003
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One thing I always do when buyin', and
highly recommend, is hire an attorney that
does Real Estate work to search the
property that you wanna buy. This will
turn up what ever deed restrictions
that are on the property. I always buy
in the country because here in NC you have to
pay county and city taxes if you live in
a city. Also, less chance of problems
with neighbors, etc. Also, you get more land for
the antenna farm for less money.
Lotsa stuff expires by its own terms as
the lawyers say. Some are unenforceable
(no Jews, no coloreds except servants, etc).
The property I'm on now only has one enforceable
condition that I can't have
swine and even though I was a law man before I retired
no one said anything about it. :-)
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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Anonymous post on March 6, 2003
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This is a very dangerous subject and the answers given are stupid AND simplistic. People who are buying real estate have to know the following:
1. If you think you don't need a lawyer when you buy property for the kind of money involved to protect your interests, then when do you need a lawyer?
2. There are no legal "tricks" that will universally protect you. LEARN THIS -----WHEN YOU SIGN AN AGREEMENT YOU ARE BOUND BY THAT AGREEMENT. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO LEARN THIS????????????????????????????????????
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by WB2WIK on March 6, 2003
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WA8KJP, perhaps we can chat about this outside the forum, but I'm not sure what incited your previous post.
I've bought and sold real estate for 30 years now, and live in the fifteenth home that I've owned, all very successful transactions with all parties, especially me, fully satisfied. All transacted without any involvement from an attorney.
Of course, actually reading papers prior to signing them is of great benefit.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Two Kinds of CC&Rs?
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by KG4YQS on March 7, 2003
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Steve, I think Rick is talking about the vast majority of us who only rarely go through the process of buying a home. When you don't know much about a process that involves tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's only prudent to involve an expert. A competent attorney knows where to look and what to look for. I'd have to take several months to read every paper, top to bottom, front and back, and still wouldn't know for sure that I'd covered my backside.
Since an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, if you absolutely, positively must put up a tower (or even a whip from the peak of your roof), be sure to ask every expert involved in the transaction about covenant restrictions. This means, at least, the title company and your lawyer, if you have one. If you still get pegged by one of these so-called "hidden" covenants, (as much as I hate our society's tendancies to sue) you've got a case for malpractice.
73,
Boyd
KG4YQS
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