Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio - Digital Forum at eHam.net

$\'\'$

$\'\'$

$\'\'$

eHam.net Forum : Digital : Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio

Forum Help

1-10 of 10 messages

Page 1 of 1

Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by KJ4NGS on October 4, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
I'm new to the world of packet, and am curious if anyone has implemented web services (SOAP) support over AX.25 (or just over digital). Web services are an increasingly popular way for people to integrate computer applications, and could be a great way to add new capabilities to the world of packet. But I didn't see any mention of it, so I was wondering if it's been tried and didn't work out, if there might be some group out there working with it, or if it's just hidden in the TCP/IP over packet world. Thanks! Charles KJ4NGS

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by KA9CQL on October 7, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Hi, Charles. SOAP is a very bandwidth-unfriendly protocol. Converting everything into ASCII strings and adding pre- and post-parameter tags is simply wasteful. What would you like to accomplish in your "quest for SOAP" over packet radio? Packet is already a concession to the lack of bandwidth, and is optimized for the medium upon which it is conveyed. I'm curious what "services" you see need of, as figuring out such a list would surely be an enlightening discussion! Maybe we could point you to a current implementation of one or more of your desired services, or could come up with ways to provide what you're after. Amateur radio is all about experimentation. If you have an idea, let's see where it can take us! '73 - Mike S. KA9CQL Victorville, CA, USA

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by AB0WR on October 8, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Charles, Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried web browsing over a 300baud, 1200bps, or 9600bps dial-up modem? If you can arrange to do this it will be an eye-opener. tim ab0wr

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by KT4WO on October 8, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Damn guys, chop his head off. I agree that "the web" won't work very well at 1200kb but it was just a simple ?. Charles, Telnet is about the best you can hope for in packet, and even that has alot of overhead. If you are running station to station(peer to peer) you may get away with a simple web interface, but once you put a node or two in the link the thruput drops fast! (300kb,110 or less) There are some software servers "outthere" for packet with HTTP interfaces...dont remember the names right now but I think some of the NOS stuff may support that. KT4WO - Trip

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by KJ4NGS on October 8, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Well, when you compress soap (i.e., XML), you achieve somewhere between an 8:1 to 12:1 compression ratio, depending upon the algorithm used. That is a significant mitigation of the bandwidth issue. A meaningful compressed inbound SOAP request can fit into a single AX.25 128 byte packet. YMMV, of course, but I think bandwidth is not a concern. You could certainly duplicate ARPS's functionality in a compressed XML packet with no extra airtime. But, really, when the local packet node (and its corresponding frequency) sits unused about 99.99% of the time, bandwidth seems to me not to be a limited resource. A concern about response time is interesting, but if the communication is computer to computer, who's to notice?

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by KJ4NGS on October 8, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Tim, I started my life on a 110 baud teletype hooked up to a PDP-8. 300 baud was a godsend back then!

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by KJ4NGS on October 8, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Trip, Ah, but one does not need HTTP to support SOAP and web services. One could allocate a new AX.25 "protocol" for SOAP that assumes the originator's stream is the inbound SOAP request and the node's response is the return SOAP object. I can see that HTTP and TCP/IP over AX.25 seems like a bad fit.

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by W3JKS on October 9, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
On the other hand, if you are willing to make use of the Wireless LAN equipment, you can have a very usable Web-based environment. If you are interested in using the amateur bands shared with Part 15 devices (900, 2.4GHz and 5.7 GHz) and the amateur 9 cm band (3.4 GHz), Ubiquiti Networks makes some very interesting devices. When coupled with a good antenna and a line-of-sight or near-LOS path, very acceptable data rates can be obtained. If you are willing to replace their integrated software with DD-WRT, Open-WRT or the like, a good bit of open-source Linux-based software is available. It takes a little work, but it's a great deal of fun, and useful as well. 73s, john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAA9SL

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by N5PVL on October 13, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
Here's an article I wrote in 1997, addressing HTML and Packet Radio: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/kb5iwt/pkt-html.htm 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL Prefer to use radio for your amateur radio communications? - Stop by at HamRadioNet.Org ! http://www.hamradionet.org

RE: Web Services (SOAP) over packet radio	Reply
by M0RJC on November 24, 2009	Mail this to a friend!
I'm in a conversation on the RAYNET UK forums about the DRM digital protocol and have introduced the idea of SOAP. I believe the advantage is what you can easily do once you have a working SOAP transport. Modern development tools allow easy integration and open up a lot of possibilities. A well designed application should send few requests, maximising what it does in each one, so best mitigating the high latency of a radio based transport. It would be best to use a message based transport (Asynchronous SOAP) given this problem. Bandwidth is a concern. SOAP packets can be compressed. Alternatively the transport can encode them - for example to take out the end tags and replace them with a single byte. Simple GZIP compression works well. SOAP opens up applications that can be easily developed using modern development tools. The communication is human readable, even if it means passing it through "gunzip" first. SOAP packets can be addressed and could conceivably be digipeated. The challenge is providing the "reliable" part of the Messaging contract. While we do not allow encryption on amateur radio, a SOAP packet could be digitally signed enabling remote control applications to authenticate requests. Such signing does not obscure the meaning of the transmission.

Page 1 of 1

Next Topic: Airlink Express Version 1.8.2.57 Available
Previous Topic: Navigator vs Micro Keyer II

Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.

Check our help page for help using Forum, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the Forum Manager.

$\'\'$