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Query regarding VE rules
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by KJ4MPW on September 12, 2009
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Does anyone know why we have 47 CFR §97.509(b)(2)? It seems to me that it's just needless discrimination.
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by W5RB on September 12, 2009
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You might at least paste the text so that we have a clue what you're referring to . It's a provision requiring that VEs be at least 18 .That's the commonly recognized age at which people have legal responsibility for their actions and more to the point , their sworn statements.
If you're less than 18 years old , you may still be able to volunteer with your local VE team , in some capacity. Teams may use non-VE "helpers" in some capacities , if they choose.The section you refer to is pasted below.
Russ, W5RB
(b) Each administering VE must:
(1) Be accredited by the coordinating VEC;
(2) Be at least 18 years of age;
(3) Be a person who holds an amateur operator license of the class specified below:
(i) Amateur Extra, Advanced or General Class in order to administer a Technician Class operator license examination;
(ii) Amateur Extra or Advanced Class in order to administer a General Class operator license examination;
(iii) Amateur Extra Class in order to administer an Amateur Extra Class operator license examination.
(4) Not be a person whose grant of an amateur station license or amateur operator license has ever been revoked or suspended.
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by KJ4MPW on September 12, 2009
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Surely the threat of license revocation is enough to keep people responsible for their sworn statements.
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by W5RB on September 12, 2009
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It's a simple , and probably legally necessary requirement that the VEs be of federally recognized legally responsible age. It's a legal , not an arbitrary social issue. You're free to petition the FCC or NCVEC to change it, but by the time you could make it happen , you'd be 40 , and realize it was a good idea.
I see that you're associated with a couple of "youth rights organizations " (and apparently a popular herbicide ), so the question may be more rhetorical than practical. Posters may want to frame their responses accordingly.
That said , more power to ya. It's great to stand up for what you believe . Just realize that lack of experience DOES matter when people weigh your opinion. You've been a ham , what, 3 months ? Try working with the existing system a bit before you go trying to change it.
Russ, W5RB
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by N5LRZ on September 13, 2009
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Re MPW...
Because the FCC says so.
And you will also note that there are also certain License Class requirements for the administration of certain written tests.
And if you will note as you take your written tests, most VE teams are comprised the vast majority of the time of 3 or more Extra Licnese holders. You will see very few General Class VE as they can only administer techie tests.
BUT as mentioned if you want to make an application for rules change to the FCC the official red tape is on the FCC Web site (somewhere).
I would not hold my breath though.
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by N2EY on September 13, 2009
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"Surely the threat of license revocation is enough to keep people responsible for their sworn statements."
I agree, but the FCC doesn't. It's THEM you have to convince. And FCC doesn't convince easily when it comes to changing the rules.
The VE system was created more than 25 years ago by FCC so that they wouldn't have to conduct exams nor prepare tests anymore. Budget cuts.
The reason for all the rules about who can be a VE, the need for at least three of them, the way the papers are handled, etc., is to try to avoid the possibility of examiners "helping" people pass the tests. Or even the *appearance* of that.
Just as important (for you) is that Techs cannot be VEs at all. So you'd have to upgrade no matter what your age. Generals can only administer the Tech test. So almost all VEs are Extras, because only Extras can administer all three tests.
If you want to change the rules, the way to do it is to write up a proposal to FCC that specifically details the exact rules you want changed, why you want them changed, what benefits the change will bring and what problems not changing causes.
Look at a proposal that FCC accepted and enacted to get an idea of what such a proposal should look like. FCC expects certain formalities.
Then post the proposal here, on other amateur-radio websites, send it to ARRL, CQ, etc., and build up support for it in the amateur community. Listen to what others have to say and revise the proposal if necessary.
When you've got lots of support, submit the proposal to FCC. They will do one of two things: Reject it, or assign it an RM number for comments.
If it gets an RM number and comment period, FCC will accept comments for a specified time, then make a decision and announce it.
Such changes take time but that's how FCC works. They have to; the law requires it.
A lot of hams skip the part about pubicizing a proposal in the amateur community and building up support. Then their proposals get lots of negative comments and FCC denies them, and the whole process just wastes time and effort.
Some hams just toss down some words on paper without following the form FCC expects. That approach almost never succeeds.
What's the big rush? Is there a shortage of VEs where you are?
---
One more caution...
Be careful what you ask for, because it can backfire.
In the USA there has never been a minimum-age requirement for an amateur radio license. The rule has always been that if you could pass the test you earned the license and could build and operate whatever station you could afford and that the license permitted.
I don't want that to change.
Some other countries had/have age limits. Canada used to but dropped them.
The result is that some rather young people have been licensed over the years, and as the test requirements have been reduced, they've gotten younger.
AFAIK, the youngest Extra on record was 7 years old, the youngest General 6 years old when the licenses were earned. There may have been even younger Novices and Techs.
73 de Jim, N2EY
Born 1954
Novice 1967
Technician/Advanced 1968
Extra 1970
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by K7KBN on September 13, 2009
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Even before the current arrangement of tests administered by VEs, the holder of a General Class license could administer Novice tests and Conditional tests. But even then, the General licensee had to be 18 years old.
You might think that youth has all the answers. Reflect on that when you're 40.
73
Pat K7KBN
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RE: Query regarding VE rules
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by N2EY on September 13, 2009
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K7KBN: "the holder of a General Class license could administer Novice tests and Conditional tests."
Also Technician tests. In fact, after 1954, the usual route to Novice and Technician was by a single volunteer examiner (note the lack of caps).
All ancient history now. The VE system is ~25 years old!
"But even then, the General licensee had to be 18 years old."
Yup.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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