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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by K1CJS on May 23, 2009
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Sorry, George, but I just don't believe it. The e-ham staff have been saying that they recognize upgrading the site is necessary and it is in work--for over five years now. You just stated the project is in "the early stages", I have to ask when e-ham is looking to finish it. In a year? Two years? TEN YEARS???
This is the first visit here I've made in a while and the first post in a long, long time--because there haven't been any appreciable changes here. E-ham is the same it has been for too long, trolls included.
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by K5TR on May 24, 2009
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I am sorry you don't believe me. I have not been saying this for 10 years. I have been saying that I want to fix things for several years now. And over that time we have made some small progress on back end bug fixes and improvements. We have also made a number of changes to the UI in the last year. All of these changes have been done in such a way that most are not obvious to the user. There have been several that are obvious.
Changing out the forums code is not a small job and it is not something that is easy to do as the forums code is used for all the comments sections on the site and changes to it will affect much of the sites code.
I am telling you that we have finally started work on this project. I could have not said anything (and maybe I should not have) about this work but I did. We are working on this project now. I do not know when we will be able to roll it out to the users.
I am sorry that you are disappointed in eham. I can understand why you might be - if you chose to not visit eham I can understand that too. I am hopeful that you will be pleased with the changes that I see coming to this site. I am certain that I/we will never be able to please everyone. I am happy with the progress we have made on the site (slow as it has been) and I am looking forward to the changes to come.
George - K5TR
geoiii@eham.net
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by N2EY on May 25, 2009
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KI4SDY writes: "The most effective and labor free thing to do is to rig the site so each person can only post one comment per subject. That would stop the arguements, improve the quality of the posts and it would be fair to everyone!"
With all due respect, I disagree.
For one thing, there's the problem of fixing typos and other mistakes.
There's also the problem of followup. Suppose I make a post that mentions in passing that the FCC made a certain rules change on a certain date. Suppose another poster claims a very different date. How can I come back with additional info, references, links, etc., to prove my point?
Most of all, though, I think a one-post-to-a-customer rule would result in very short discussions and/or very very long posts.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by K5END on May 25, 2009
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I don't know if QRZ.com is more resilient to trolls, but I think we're missing a larger picture here.
Trolls are easy to kill. You starve them to death. Just like the bears and other animals in the National Parks: don't feed them.
In my opinion, a much bigger problem than trolls is the arrogant, boorish, mutually-sycophantic attitude among a specific clique of "experts" who, in some cases, are horribly unaware of their own ignorance of radio and electronics.
These guys do a lot of damage to the spirit of Newbies and therefore hurt the hobby as well as the forum. (Funny thing is, I have yet to hear any of them on the HF bands, ever.)
That problem is equally pervasive on eham and qrz, with one difference. Some of the moderators at qrz have the same, unfortunate attitude.
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by K1CJS on May 26, 2009
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Thanks for the reply, George. Yes, I realize that redoing sections of a site is no small job--but the word was put out way too long ago that those changes were "coming soon." That is why I wrote what I did--and why I don't visit here as much. Also, I am not unhappy with the site itself--but with the continuing lack of moderation on the site. The latest story, "How I got my ham radio hobby back" is full of posters calling down the author--from the first reply. And some of those posters just took their nasty pill before posting.
I am happy to see this: "I am telling you that we have finally started work on this project." But I am forced to consider--as that has also been said before--that these are just more words. E-ham needs tighter moderation to go along with the promised improvements. Freedom of speech is one thing, but too many posts on E-ham go too far--and when freedom of speech turns into abuse of that freedom, something must be done.
The E-ham staff has steadfastly refused to take that next step--a step that would make the site better AND more appealing to both the ham community and to people looking to see what ham radio is. Face it--with today's technology, if you want to find out about something you just put that something into a search engine and you go to the resulting sites. Would you care to guess how many people who are looking to take up a hobby come here, and are so repulsed by what they see here that they give up on ham radio before they even try the actual hobby? I don't know, but I'll wager that the number is substantial.
If the staff is looking for help, there are those who would willingly give it. Volunteers have been turned down--and then the staff said they didn't have the time OR THE PEOPLE to 'clean up' the abusive posts and moderate the site more closely!
Sorry to ramble on, but I just had to vent a little frustration--and you're the first to reply to such a post as I made in a long time. Thanks for letting me bend your ear.
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by KO1D on May 26, 2009
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Thanks for telling us you are working on it. I appreciate that this is a volunteer effort and very much a labor of love for the eHam staff. A lot of us out here really do appreciate everything you put into this. I cannot begin to tell you how helpful people on this site have been. Most importantly those same people who are helpful they out number the morons by leaps and bounds. As you can see from the page after page of frustration in the Site Talk Forum though, a lot of us have just plain had it with the sniping and general silliness some bring to the table.
If this were a repeater they'd be banned. I do not know a trustee anywhere that'd put up with this sniping and hate mongering. If this were 75, well they'd be on but behaving a bit better since Riley cleaned house. They need to understand they should behave here as they would on the air. The ramifications need to be the same as well, if they cannot behave their access to eHam is removed. I do not think that needs a tool so much as a delete key by a moderator. Enough complaints by members or even enough comments where a moderator has identified the individual in question has been acting against a common level of decency and conduct then they are banned. For US hams this can be the basic amateur code or FCC rules. Maybe this would work for foreign hams as well.
Just my 2 cents.
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by K1CJS on May 26, 2009
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BTW, George--I realize that my reputation here isn't all that good (meaning I've made some rude posts here too)--but I would be willing to help out on the site--moderating, proofreading, whatever is required--for a few hours each week if you are looking for volunteers. I use ARRL forwarding for e-mail. 73!
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by K5END on May 26, 2009
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I don't know if you guys have noticed the same thing, but I've seen an "absence" lately of some of the notorious or rude posters.
No names mentioned, but look through some of the old threads at some of the user IDs and you'll ask yourself, "whatever happened to that 'whacko?'"
If eham chooses to ban someone, I think they'd have the good taste not to advertise or publish it, or even acknowledge that users have been kicked out or suspended.
Am I right?
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by N0YXB on May 26, 2009
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You could be right. Other than the guy who rants about politics (liberals) at every opportunity, most posters don't appear to be trolls. Some of us may disagree with each on occasion, but that's healthy.
Vince
N0YXB
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RE: QRZ Troll Killer! Good idea for eHam?
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by LU2DFM on May 29, 2009
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In another thread in this same forum I've suggested that eham needs to move to a codebase ala slashdot (slashdot.org).
My suggestion is based in the idea that the slashdot codebase (which is free, see http://www.slashcode.com/) has already much of, if not all, the features we have here on eham, and a _lot_ more. Some of these features are perhaps necessary, like peer moderation and thresholds for post browsing based on the post score.
I'dont know what the eham's user base is, nor what is the real percentage of users actually active in fora, so the critical mass for a site like slashdot to proper get the moderation system to work is here or not. But my guess is that it will be fine (even if it don't work at all, in the very worst scenario, the present moderators will be doing the very same job).
Let me put this straight: I'm not doing any criticism about the codebase of eham, which I don't ever look at, not the ability of eham's developers to get the job done. My point is about not reinventing the wheel, and redirect the efforts that are made to support and develop this site, to another well established codebase, which is FOSS for anyone to use.
Thanks
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