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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by CURIOUSHAM on May 18, 2009
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"I will have a hard time leaving the NAVY program. I joined the NAVY, Retired from the NAVY and still serve the NAVY."
_____________________________________
Unfortunately, the NAVY is leaving YOU. I'm sorry it's happening.
73
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by W7TUT on May 18, 2009
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I wouldn't go jumping ship yet, the CMB 03-09 was
probably a good tactic. DOD 4650.20 says each
military service (not MARS) will establish a MARS program
under their service, D of Army, D of Air Force, and
D of Navy. Each service secretary is responsible for
establishing the MARS program.
Under the Navy, the Naval Network Warfare Command doesn't
want to increase funding, but end the program. Problem
is, the program is mandated under DOD 4650.20. Any
cancellation to the program can probably only be done
by the Sec of the Navy (SECNAV). Plus this cancellation of MARS hasn't even been approved by the
Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), also is OPNAV in the message.
Will I jump ship, no, what I've seen is theres nothing
better than NMC MARS in Region Ten.
...Randy/NNN0FHA/GBP/AS0 FOUR...
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by N9KWW on May 18, 2009
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You are right Navy MARS is not dead yet, but I think it is on the way out. In the Navy’s interest MARS does not fit into the fleet role like it did years past. Before sat phones and free telegram service MARS was the only way to go. Now we are ECOM, but even ECOM only goes so far, the question is where does MARS fit into the role of the fleet? At the end of the day I think that is how they look at things.
I HOPE MARS continues to operate for years to come, but for that to happen we need a new role. What that role is I do not know. For now MARS from the sound of things, is on life support. Not dead yet but in need on intensive care.
Ron
NNN0VAG
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by W7TUT on May 18, 2009
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Yes, but what does "Army MARS" do for the "Army"? TSA,
in Portland the Army MARS TSA station operates off a roof as TSA doesn't want them inside their area. In Seattle its operating on a table in the hallway. Does
TSA need them or is it all political. Every holiday, Navy MARS runs ship to shore phone patches for hours. Unless your on a carrier you don't have access to email technology. Even in Iraq they have email, if you want to wait 1-2 weeks for access. In Oregon we work closely with the Oregon State Police, NNN0WLK, National Weather Service, NNN0NPX and US Coast Group North Bend, NNN0NTT.
Do we do anything directly to the Navy Dept, no, but I
don't think any other MARS group does either. Hang in there, a change is coming.
Randy/FHA/GBP/AS0 Four
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by AL7QL on May 19, 2009
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I agree with Randy. NAVMARCORMARS may have been dealt a blow but we are not yet down for the count. However, when discussing funding I find it difficult to believe that much funding finds its way to NAVMARCORMARS. At least over the last 13 years of my association with NAVMARCORMARS I have not seen a pay raise and I am a NMO1 soon to be Chief unless the program is axed. FYI, in 1996 my compensation for MARS participation was $0.00 and I still receive $0.00 for service rendered to Navy MARS. However, a little perspective is needed here. If funding really is the issue perhaps the Navy could cancel an order for one fighter jet. The 30 or so million dollars saved, not including the flight crew, pilot, maintenance costs and fuel costs could fund NAVMARCORMARS for many years to come. Would the Navy miss one jet? The answer is a resounding no. Taking the next step, the miniscule amount of funds needed to maintain a viable Navy MARS program is completely overshadowed by the magnitude of funding poured into the economy to bail out failed auto makers and poorly run banks and other financial institutions. Certainly the Navy MARS program can't amount to a hill of beans when compared to the bailout, the DOD budget or the Navy Department budget. The budget for Navy MARS isn't even a blip on the Navy's radar or sonar screens. As such I suspect it will take more funding to sunset the program than to maintain it. So, I think "something else is afoot" as Sherlock Holmes would have said. Perhaps NAVAL NETWORK WARFARE COMMAND doesn't know what NAVMARCORMARS is or does. Maybe they just want to see the program go away. So, sunsetting Navy MARS to save funding doesn't appear to be the product of rational thought processes. If funding is not the true issue then what is the issue? Remember, we are a cadre of volunteers. We receive no compensation and most of us provide our own equipment to advance ECOM capabilities in support of the uniformed services. Perhaps it is time to cut funding for $600.00 toilet seats and $400.00 hammers. The Heritage Foundation summed it up pretty well. Visit http://www.heritage.org/Research/Features/NationalSecurity/bg2212.cfm Respectfully submitted, Peter NNN0SKL // NNN0GAB TWO.
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by W7TUT on May 19, 2009
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Also, along with the Navy CNO's staff level, is the
Commandant of the Marine Corps whom would also have to
approve or disapprove it.
The GSA sells these "SledgeHammer" hard drive mashers
for $3500, look at what you would save using a real
$20 sledge hammer. Or how about a replacement canopy
for an F-22, $182,000...Randy...
http://www.semshred.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1205
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20396
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by K3WVU on May 19, 2009
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Well, if you read the broadcast,it appears that even if DoD doesn't approve OPNAV's move to get rid of MARS, the program will be reduced to a program totally without military involvement and support. All of the staff positions will be volunteer, and any personnel matters will be dumped on the Chief. The Area Directors are going to be gone, along with any equipment, postage support, etc.
So, either Navy MARS will be shut down on 30 Sep, 2009, or it will be left to slowly die on the vine.
The other question is whether Navy's action will eventually impact the other services. Will Army and Air Force eventually follow the Navy?
I spent 30 years working with DoD resource issues, and believe me, the Navy always has always gone its own way, and always has an agenda behind every move it makes.
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by N3ZH on May 19, 2009
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I found a reliable source on the internet for the complete official message:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MARS-ALE/message/5404
Unfortunately, it is not easy to interperet.
DE NNN0ASA 040
R 162200Z MAY 2009
FM CHNAVMARCORMARS WILLIAMSBURG VA
TO ALNAVMARCORMARS
INFO ZEN/CHIEF ARMY MARS FT HUACHUCA AZ
ZEN/CHIEF AIR FORCE MARS SCOTT AFB IL
BT
UNCLAS
SUBJ: CHNAVMARCORMARS BCST 03-09
A. DOD DIRECTIVE 4650.2 DTD 26 JAN 1998
B. DOD INSTRUCTION 4650.02 (PROPOSED) NOTAL
1. COMMANDER, NAVAL NETWORK WARFARE COMMAND (NNWC) HAS DECIDED TO 'SUNSET' THE MARS MISSION WITHIN NAVY AS OF 30 SEP 2009. NNWC HAS REQUESTED ALL MILITARY BILLETS AND MY CIVILIAN POSITION BE DELETED AND UNFUNDED AFTER THAT DATE. OPNAV HAS NOT YET APPROVED THIS REQUEST.
2. ALL THREE MARS SERVICES HAVE OPERATED UNDER THE MANDATE OF REF A, WHICH IS STILL VALID. REF B IS A PROPOSED UPDATE TO REF A AND IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING COORDINATED BETWEEN DOD AND THE THREE SERVICES. REF B INCREASES THE SERVICES REQUIREMENT TO SUPPORT THE MARS PROGRAMS WITHIN THEIR SERVICE. ARMY AND AIR FORCE HAVE AGREED TO THE CHANGES BUT NAVY (OPNAV) HAS ASKED TO BE LET OUT OF THIS REQUIREMENT. THIS NEGOTIATION IS STILL IN PROCESS AND WE DO NOT KNOW WHEN IT WILL BE RESOLVED.
3. AS A CONSEQUENCE OF NNWC DECISION TO 'SUNSET' THE MARS MISSION, I AM FORCED TO INITIATE ACTION TO CLOSE DOWN NAVY-MARINE CORPS OPERATIONS AND FACILITIES BY 30 SEP 2009. ACCORDINGLY:
A. AREA DIRECTORS WILL TRANSFER ALL MEMBERSHIP RECORDS TO HQ NLT THAN 31 JUL 2009. WHEN RECORDS HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED, STATE DIRECTORS WILL SEND ALL MEMBERSHIP RELATED MATTERS DIRECTLY TO CHNAVMARCORMARS VICE THE AREA DIRECTOR.
B. AREA DIRECTORS WILL CLOSE DOWN THEIR OFFICES AND TURN IN ALL EQUIPMENT TO DRMO NOT LATER THAN 30 SEP 2009.
C. NONE OF THE EQUIPMENT AT THE AREA DIRECTORS STATIONS WILL BE ALLOWED TO BE TRANSFERRED TO ANY MEMBERS. THE EQUIPMENT MAY BE TRANSFERRED TO OTHER OFFICIAL NAVY ORGANIZATIONS (LIKE MWR OR SPECIAL SERVICES) TO HELP EQUIP OR START UP MILITARY RECREATION STATIONS. THESE TRANSFERS WILL BE APPROVED BY HQ ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
4. IF NAVY'S REQUEST TO BE DELETED FROM REF B IS NOT APPROVED, THERE WILL BE A NAVY-MARINE CORPS MARS PROGRAM BUT IT WILL NOT HAVE AREA DIRECTORS (THEY WILL HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED). ALL MEMBERSHIP CORRESPONDENCE WILL BE HANDLED BETWEEN THE STATE DIRECTOR AND CHIEF, NAVMARCORMARS DIRECTLY. AREA DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND AREA STAFF POSITIONS WILL BE RETAINED TO COORDINATE FREQUENCY MATTERS, TRAINING, ETC.. ALL OPERATIONAL MATTERS WILL BE HANDLED BY STATE AND REGION DIRECTORS.
5. I WILL INFORM YOU AS SOON AS I FIND OUT THE FINAL RESOLUTION OF NAVY'S REQUEST TO 'SUNSET' NAVY-MARINE CORPS MARS.
BT
NNNN
It's a bit difficult to understand. Obviously all funding, equipment, billet and civilian positions are being eliminated. Whether it continues without funding is not clear. It seems Area directors are to shutdown their offices, yet State directors appear to continue to exist and communicate directly to NAVMARCORMARS Chief directly.
It appears to me that Navy/MarineCorp MARS is not dead - every single item has not had any final decisions made at the top. It's like a "just in case plan". It is like issuing orders in case the orders get issued?
Of course - what do I know?
Howard
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by K3WVU on May 19, 2009
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Not dead, but certainly on life support. If you read paragraph 4, if DOD tells NAVY that their MARS program must continue, it will continue with no real service support. Looks like only the civilian Chief position will remain, and he will be working with volunteer staff at the state level.
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RE: Navy MARS kaput?
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by W3LK on May 19, 2009
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With the exception of one active duty assistant and two active duty Area Directors (the other two AD billets are currently unfilled) all Bo has already is volunteer staff. There are no other paid positions.
In reality, all that will be eliminated is one layer of administration.
Lon - NNN0OOR (Former MDE SMD, Deputy SMD, Assistant For Net Operations)
Southern New England Navy-Marine Corps MARS
Proudly Serving Those Who Serve
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