Dayton 2009 Reflected
Created by on 2009-06-02My last trip to Dayton was 1991. Used to go every year from 1983. Looking back it was the most fun ever!
Finally being able to go again, I started to read up a bit on what might have changed, after all those years, and was disappointed to read so many negative things about the Hamvention.
Happy to say I had a real blast. Had a chance to meet lots of fellow hams, saw tons of new and used gear... To be fair I wish there were some more variety and quantity in the outdoor areas but no biggie.
Even back in the 80's I always remember seeing a few empty spaces not the end of the world.
Glad I didn't let any of the negative articles discourage me, it wasn't all that different then I remember it , met lots of nice folks, fellow hams, and just had fun.
One of the things that I really liked was being able to meet the astronauts in the AMSAT booth, whom I had previously worked when they were in space.
Perhaps some might wish to post their favorite highlights here?
Can't wait till next year :)
N2EHG
| W8JN | 2009-06-21 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| i enjoy dayton, however the thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the way the flea market is conducted. i discovered several years ago, that the "real deals" are gone before the flea market even opens to the public. all the flea marketeers buy and sell from each other one day before the market opens. they wheel and deal during setup day. unfair to the thousands who pay big bucks to travel to dayton and hope to pick up a good bargain. just to see for myself, three years ago, i rented a flea market space, set up my stuff and found the best bargains ever from all the years i had been attending. the great deals are there, they are long gone before the gates open....ATTN: HAMVENTION ORGANIZERS!!! best 73 paul w8jn Reply to a comment by : KT0F on 2009-06-20 This will be the 18th trip for me. I was encouraged to hear that one of the vendors selling ham test software explaining that their sales were so far through the roof that they had no way to compare it. This is cool!! Dayton is a rush for sure. If you have not been and are reading all of the comments, good or bad, let me assure you that you need to see this event. Everyone needs to go one time in their life. I will assure any of the "newbies" riding the fence and considering Dayton that all of the comments, fair and foul, are also true. Place is worn. Attendance is down. Hams are cheap. Blah blah blah. The bottom line is simple.....It is OUR HOBBY and THIS IS THE EVENT FOR HAM RADIO. Get off the couch, scrape up your money, support the hobby and join the group. See you at HARA, rain or shine 73 John KT0F | ||
| KT0F | 2009-06-20 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This will be the 18th trip for me. I was encouraged to hear that one of the vendors selling ham test software explaining that their sales were so far through the roof that they had no way to compare it. This is cool!! Dayton is a rush for sure. If you have not been and are reading all of the comments, good or bad, let me assure you that you need to see this event. Everyone needs to go one time in their life. I will assure any of the "newbies" riding the fence and considering Dayton that all of the comments, fair and foul, are also true. Place is worn. Attendance is down. Hams are cheap. Blah blah blah. The bottom line is simple.....It is OUR HOBBY and THIS IS THE EVENT FOR HAM RADIO. Get off the couch, scrape up your money, support the hobby and join the group. See you at HARA, rain or shine 73 John KT0F | ||
| KI9A | 2009-06-17 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| My other hobby is old cars. The last 10 years, vendors, and the swapmeet areas at old car shows have shrunk big time. I blame it on the internet. So, ham radio isn't alone in decrease in swapmeets.. 73- Chuck KI9A Reply to a comment by : WA4SCA on 2009-06-02 My impression is that the flea market is shrinking, and the quality of the stuff offered is declining. Of course, there are still a few excellent vendors! My guess would be eBay and similar venues are killing traditional sellers. I am not aware of the final numbers, but according to discussions with DARA people while we were breaking down our inside booth, the turnout was at least level and probably up from last year. The commercial vendors were very happy, especially considering the state of the economy and the recent flu scare. Alan WA4SCA Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| W6PMR | 2009-06-15 | |
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| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| One more time,..I vote for VEGAS!!!!! Can we PLEASE have a "National" convention somewhere in the west,...PLEASE. Those of us that have jobs and a life cannot afford to take a week off to go to,...DAYTON?? Sorry, just my yearly anti-Dayton rant, Paul. | ||
| KB3IBT | 2009-06-14 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I meant Hats OFF too in my typo up above! Not hats of!! LOL Reply to a comment by : WA4YJB on 2009-06-12 Fourth or fifth Dayton trip. My fiancee asked what I wanted for my birthday and I said "Go to Dayton". So she bought the tickets and bus passes and hotel room. She loves to go to hamfests as much as I do and we always enjoy ourselfs. She was impressed with the whole experience. The food and the bathrooms are issues but as long as the rain held out it was fun. She got sunburned, a new necklace, some books and I got a new radio. Sweet deal. Hats off to DARA and we'll be back. Reply to a comment by : KE7FD on 2009-06-02 I've now been to the Hamvention three times I think, maybe four. Anyway, I can't recall anything from one year or another other than the weather being better in May than in April; that's an improvement. We should not be surprised or alarmed if the Hamvention is not what it used to be. Anyone out there able to buy gas for $1 a gallon? Didn't think so. It's the economy... Of course it's not what it used to be, and it may not be for a while. Take it for what it's worth to you. If there are things you need or stuff you can pick up for the guys back home, go and have a good time. Attend some forums, play with the new rigs (ah, Kenwood, are you listening?), and rekindle some old friendships. How about that guy walking around with the 500W backpack radio and the Tarheel? Anyone standing next to him loose any hair when he fired that thing up? And that other guy who every year walks around in his Cat-in-the-hat hat? What's under that hat anyway? And does anyone know what's really in those cheeseburgers? I thought Yaesu gave some really nice hats away this year which obligates me to hold onto my FT-857D for another year, but not my VX5R (way too complicated for what little I use an HT for). I did buy a Kenwood look-a-like speaker from some guy outside that when I got it home didn't work. Glad I didn't sink a ton on that one. I've already replaced it with something better anyway. And I bought one small "medical" 12v battery on the left-hand side of the "main" aisle who when I went back to buy a second one, was gone. Don't you hate it when you do that? Did you ignore too that notion to buy two of something when you just bought the one? Now for those who feel the locals don't appreciate the $$ we bring to the area, I say this: That DARA or the Hamvention organizers should look at relocating the event somewhere else one year, but just once, and make sure Hara is reserved the following year. Why? That way, when we go back to Hara, the locals should welcome us back with open arms. But as for myself, I got a kick at the folks at the Waffle House who wore their Hamvention tee shirts, all of them. In fact, their food was good, inexpensive and fast. They were glad to see us and frankly, I believe they'd welcome us back anytime. I did make it home with all my goodies and we had a good time yakking all the way home, and not on the radio. Bill Cosby kept us laughing a bit too. See you next year! Maybe... | ||
| WA4YJB | 2009-06-12 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Fourth or fifth Dayton trip. My fiancee asked what I wanted for my birthday and I said "Go to Dayton". So she bought the tickets and bus passes and hotel room. She loves to go to hamfests as much as I do and we always enjoy ourselfs. She was impressed with the whole experience. The food and the bathrooms are issues but as long as the rain held out it was fun. She got sunburned, a new necklace, some books and I got a new radio. Sweet deal. Hats off to DARA and we'll be back. Reply to a comment by : KE7FD on 2009-06-02 I've now been to the Hamvention three times I think, maybe four. Anyway, I can't recall anything from one year or another other than the weather being better in May than in April; that's an improvement. We should not be surprised or alarmed if the Hamvention is not what it used to be. Anyone out there able to buy gas for $1 a gallon? Didn't think so. It's the economy... Of course it's not what it used to be, and it may not be for a while. Take it for what it's worth to you. If there are things you need or stuff you can pick up for the guys back home, go and have a good time. Attend some forums, play with the new rigs (ah, Kenwood, are you listening?), and rekindle some old friendships. How about that guy walking around with the 500W backpack radio and the Tarheel? Anyone standing next to him loose any hair when he fired that thing up? And that other guy who every year walks around in his Cat-in-the-hat hat? What's under that hat anyway? And does anyone know what's really in those cheeseburgers? I thought Yaesu gave some really nice hats away this year which obligates me to hold onto my FT-857D for another year, but not my VX5R (way too complicated for what little I use an HT for). I did buy a Kenwood look-a-like speaker from some guy outside that when I got it home didn't work. Glad I didn't sink a ton on that one. I've already replaced it with something better anyway. And I bought one small "medical" 12v battery on the left-hand side of the "main" aisle who when I went back to buy a second one, was gone. Don't you hate it when you do that? Did you ignore too that notion to buy two of something when you just bought the one? Now for those who feel the locals don't appreciate the $$ we bring to the area, I say this: That DARA or the Hamvention organizers should look at relocating the event somewhere else one year, but just once, and make sure Hara is reserved the following year. Why? That way, when we go back to Hara, the locals should welcome us back with open arms. But as for myself, I got a kick at the folks at the Waffle House who wore their Hamvention tee shirts, all of them. In fact, their food was good, inexpensive and fast. They were glad to see us and frankly, I believe they'd welcome us back anytime. I did make it home with all my goodies and we had a good time yakking all the way home, and not on the radio. Bill Cosby kept us laughing a bit too. See you next year! Maybe... | ||
| K5END | 2009-06-11 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Sir, Astute observation and parallel. Bravo. Reply to a comment by : N8KR on 2009-06-11 Perhaps Hara Arena, in its old and tired state, is symbolic of us aging and tiring hams. While showing its age, it still contains the excitement of the hobby: radios and antennas and all sorts of ham stuff, wonderful forums plus years of acquaintances! Young and old friends meet during this great reunion and relive the past year and vow to make it all happen in the following year. Older and with less energy, the passion and excitement of the hobby is still inside! It's been 27 years in a row and I can hardly wait for #28! | ||
| N8KR | 2009-06-11 | |
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| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Perhaps Hara Arena, in its old and tired state, is symbolic of us aging and tiring hams. While showing its age, it still contains the excitement of the hobby: radios and antennas and all sorts of ham stuff, wonderful forums plus years of acquaintances! Young and old friends meet during this great reunion and relive the past year and vow to make it all happen in the following year. Older and with less energy, the passion and excitement of the hobby is still inside! It's been 27 years in a row and I can hardly wait for #28! | ||
| KB3IBT | 2009-06-07 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my first Dayton trip and I am glad I attended. The closest thing in my experience I have to compare it with is the Timonium, MD Hamboree near Baltimore. (they do a fine job) Overall, this was a positive experience. I believe most of the negative critique especially about the bathrooms are way to harsh. Sure, they could have been better, but I have seen worse bathrooms in major rail stations in the big cities along the east coast! I did use the porta-johns a couple of times and some did have hand sanitizer solution. Yes, there was a lot of junk in the flea market area. But have you ever been to a ham flea market that didn't have any junk?? I had fun looking through the flea market and came home with a Kenwood dual bander and lots of connectors and feed lines. I found a dummy load rated at 135 watts for ten bucks, not bad. I also enjoyed the inside vendors and exhibitors and purchased my first HT at a great price. I had a great time and stayed at the KOA campgrounds inside a tent with my beautiful wife. The rain was no problem and we even had a space heater and electric blanket that kept us warm the last two nights. My wife went to the malls and shops in the suburbs while I caught the bus from the campgrounds every morning for Hara Arena. Yes, the facilities could be updated. But first, I went to Dayton to buy some radio gear and meet some fellow hams and learn a thing or two. (and enjoy camping with my wife)Everything else comes in second. Hats of to the DARA organization for a job well done! I had a wonderful time and was thrilled to be there. I am making plans to come back next year. Reply to a comment by : W1ROM on 2009-06-07 This was my first Dayton, after 34 years as a HAM! I had planned to come several times before, but something always came up or the buddies I was going to come with backed out. This time I came with my lovely XYL (who is also studying for her ticket) and had a ball!!! I must say that the City of Dayton is not much of a place of interest... it looks like it's seen better days. Outside of the USAF Museum, there isn't much to see of do there. The HARA Arena is a dilapidated dive. The hamvention should have moved unto better digs by now. Certainly something with an attached hotel and some good restaurants around. The flea market looked like most do today... junk that's too old or beat up to go on Ebay. We spent about 5 hours on Sunday picking it over and felt we'd seen enough. Long story short is that we had a good time in spite of the crappy city and run-down venue. I plan to go again, maybe in 2 years. I hope by then it's moved to a better place. | ||
| W1ROM | 2009-06-07 | |
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| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my first Dayton, after 34 years as a HAM! I had planned to come several times before, but something always came up or the buddies I was going to come with backed out. This time I came with my lovely XYL (who is also studying for her ticket) and had a ball!!! I must say that the City of Dayton is not much of a place of interest... it looks like it's seen better days. Outside of the USAF Museum, there isn't much to see of do there. The HARA Arena is a dilapidated dive. The hamvention should have moved unto better digs by now. Certainly something with an attached hotel and some good restaurants around. The flea market looked like most do today... junk that's too old or beat up to go on Ebay. We spent about 5 hours on Sunday picking it over and felt we'd seen enough. Long story short is that we had a good time in spite of the crappy city and run-down venue. I plan to go again, maybe in 2 years. I hope by then it's moved to a better place. | ||
| VE3ES | 2009-06-06 | |
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| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Love reading all the bitching and groaning going on about the Dayton Hamvention. The hobby itself is way down from what it was back in the 80s, thus the biggest flea market of 'em all is merely a reflection of that. You want fantastic facilities? Check out the building where the Ft. Wayne (Indiana) Hamfest is held. Huge, modern, well maintained building. They get thousands for that event but NOTHING compares to the Dayton Hamvention. I make the 4 hour drive each way to attend as do hundreds of other VE3s who make an even longer drive to get there. I don't think anybody does (or should) go simply to criticize the washrooms or the food or weeds growing int he parking lot. Wow! Spend hundreds if not thousands on hotels, meals, equipment, check out the latest and greatest, meet ham radio ops from around the world, attend events at the Dara Arena, downtown hotels, and really throughout the area, have a fantastic time with one's fellow ham radio ops, and some people can only bitch about a toilet. Get a life. I have attended this event since 1976, every year!!! I wouldn't think of not attending. Thank you DARA for putting on "the" ham radio flea market and show; a must attend every spring. Yes, I'll get down to the Orlando show when I'm old and falling apart like all the retirees who have nothing else to do with their lives but in the meantime there is nothing better than the Dayton Hamvention. | ||
| KE5MHV | 2009-06-06 | |
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| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my first "trip to Mecca." I found the event very exciting and look forward to a return sometime in the future. Living some 700+ miles away in Arkansas it was definitely a planned vacation. This event was like many others there were things I was very pleased with and a few I was a little let down about. Over all it was a very rewarding event. For me, the positives out weighed the negatives. I will try to mention a few of each. The event location to me was not overly "rundown" there were things about the facility that could be improved but when you consider this is a family owned facility it is amazing what they do with the property they have. I thought the layout was fairly well done and the opportunity for vendors was there. The overview of the facility could use some revamping. It was hard to decide the layout but by the end of the day Friday we had it figured out. I was driving for a friend who is a double amputee an we had been able to reserve handicapped parking...it was very reasonably located. The security company needs to pay attention to the mirror tags that are assigned. we drove all the way around the facility in the gate only to discover that we had driven by where we were to turn in. The facility was easily accessible from the interstate and i would say we got lucky in picking the hotel blindly and had a very easy drive into the facility. I would like to see the booth numbers assigned with some combination of numbers and letters with the letters designating what building. That might make it a little easier for the newcomer. I also was a litte dissappointed at the number of "boatanchors" that were available in the flea market area. I did pick up some things that were needed and some that were wanted. Again I would give an overall thumbs up. Thanks to DARA for continuing the work that goes into such a large event. 73's Josh ke5mhv | ||
| KD8DEY | 2009-06-06 | |
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| I wonder | ||
| How the DARA guys running the show would feel if they knew that the outside security company (Merchants Security Service) That they have been bringing in for years have it so together (not) that they are not even operating their radios legally. If you are here in Dayton you can listen in on them on the repeater pair of 461.050/466.050 and Identifying with the call sign of WNAW517 If you check the ULS you will see that this is an Invalid Call. Looking by zip code you can see that they have 2 valid calls that they do not use. and that this repeater pair is not assigned to them. http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/results.jsp?licSearchKey=licSearcKey2009561335110&curPage=1&reqPage=7 They should be using the repeater pair of 463.9125/468.9125 and Identifying by WQHM943. They Also hold the license WQCF912 Also The Hamvention was mostly covered by what we affectionately called 3 day wonders. People that were hired on only for the 3 days of hamvention. Some of them from the battered shelter I was posted at for a while. No formal training in security or enough time for even a proper background check. They didn't even wear the same badge as us regulars! I worked for them for 9 years until I was unceremoniously dumped while on emergency medical leave and recovering from 3 major surgeries. Then claiming that I had quit 4 months before I was even released from the surgeons care making it impossible to draw unemployment since you "QUIT" With 2 disabling work related injuries and 12 1/2% unemployment it's been impossible to find work to help support my wife and grandson. Thanks again Merchants | ||
| W9AC | 2009-06-06 | |
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| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| K8AC: "After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton." The Orlando Hamfest has really come a long way in recent years and I agree with Floyd that the quality of the fleamarket surpasses that of Dayton -- which in recent years has started to resemble a junk yard. Although I live near Orlando, I think it's important to try and centralize the event. For that reason, I believe Dayton's initial popularity grew as a result of its location and reasonable proximity for most of those who wanted to attend. For the future, my vote is Cincinnati. I fly into Cincinnati every year to attend the Dayton Hamvention and I actually have a more enjoyable time while I'm there than at Dayton. "Cinci" is one cool city for so many reasons. Paul, W9AC Reply to a comment by : W9OY on 2009-06-02 Plus if you're going to fly its a heck of a lot easier to connect to Orlando than Dayton 73 W9OY Reply to a comment by : KK8ZZ on 2009-06-02 Come to Cleveland. The IX Center can literally hold the entire flea market AND the vendors area (minus the cars parked next to the flea market booths). Indoors, air conditioned, reasonable food costs. It's one of the world's largest indoor spaces - and it's always clean, and the bathrooms never smell. (This year at Hara the stench was overwhelming - you literally had to breathe through your mouth just to get to the urinals, and the stalls were unmentionable!). Better airport connections too, and lots of reasonable lodging. | ||
| W7NWH | 2009-06-06 | |
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| RE: What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| NEB - What? Record companies are NOT paying music royalties for your use of copyrighted material on Youtube. Sorry doesn't work that way. Youtube does not maintain a "deal" for home video creators! And I'm sorry to say NO website encourages people to infringe on other people's copyright. The polices are pretty clear on this. Lots of people steal or "borrow" commerical music because Youtube is like the CB of videos. Youtube do police but with millions of video's being uploaded no one checks each one. They do have infringement controls which are often utilized. Another good place to report infringement is on ASCAP/BMI sites which I encourage people to use when hearing any commerical music in sync to home video. Now would you play the same music on ham radio? I think part 97 frowns on that. Just because you CAN do something doesn't make it legal. The artists music your using in sync to picture is depriving them of revenue. I would love to use commerical music in my internet productions but the LAW says no and I HAVE TO PAY FOR A NEEDLE DROP. The music your using cost lots of money to make, producers, engineers, studio's, duplication, marketing, etc. Enjoy it all you want at home, with friends, when you sync and PUBLISH to the internet you infringe on copyright everytime - no exceptions. Reply to a comment by : K0NEB on 2009-06-05 Actually, homemade music videos are ENCOURAGED on YouTube. There are TONS of them. They rejected one of my videos due to YouTube not having a copyright license for WMG music. But, Yahoo as a corporation did have such an agreement with WMG, thus it is allowed there. The other song was OK'd by YouTube. I know because when they rejected my first show, it happened within minutes of it being uploaded due to the WMG problem. Google, owner of YouTube and AOL, Yahoo, etc. have entered into agreements with the major labels to pay them royalties based on the number of hits these videos get. The record companies Made these agreements to open online videos as a new revenue stream. In this case, Google pays the record companies, and also reaps revenues from ads and referral traffic when someone hears the song and orders in from many online music sources. Most of the record labels feel these homemade productions are a new outlet for their material, similar to radio play, that enhances the value of their product. Like I said, if it is not allowed by these sites, they IMMEDIATELY reject them now upon upload as they scan them for such material. So, Enjoy the shows! 73, Joe K0NEB Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 NEB, - you must of spent a fortune on securing great music. I'm sure you submitted sync licenses to ASCAP/BMI? Unless you pay for blanket use? Here's where you submit your $$$$$. http://www.ascap.com/licensing/generalreports.ht BMI reporting here - http://www.bmi.com/licensing/?link=navbar This explains pretty well - snip below from - http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/copyright-for-video-producers My daughter’s Girl Scout troop is doing a cookie sale in the local mall. There is copyrighted music playing in the background on the mall’s Muzak system. Do I need to worry about it when I shoot a video of my daughter and post it on the web? This is a trick question. If the music is only ancillary and incidental, and not heard as part of the video, but merely ‘noise’ in the background, you might be OK. As a matter of law, this is an infringement so consult an attorney before streaming this. If you cut the video in time to the music, and the music is heard clearly so as to constitute a perceptible, substantial part of the work, then you are more than likely in violation. You certainly couldn’t copy your work in this instance and post it to the web; not only could the performance issue bite you, so could sync, patent and other issues. I’m doing a run and gun interview of a skateboarder and Three Doors Down* was giving a concert while I interviewed and shot footage of this kid. You can hear their music in the background while he’s speaking, and while he’s on the half-pipe. What do I need to worry about? First, during the interview, you need to worry about nothing, as it’s ancillary/incidental music. But while he’s not speaking, while he’s performing in the half-pipe. You’d best find some royalty free, needle-drop, original, or other legal music form to replace the background audio. Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 or maybe the lady luck would smile.. roll the bones! Reply to a comment by : K5END on 2009-06-04 > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| W8LV | 2009-06-05 | |
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| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I can't afford to travel far, and being a working man, just to get the time away to do ANYTHING is tough. So I am one of the lucky ones who can usually attend, since it is held in Dayton, and I live in Central Ohio. I think that you get out of the experience whatever you want to put into it, as with any experience. The forums are there for the taking. I also attended the QRP "Four Days in May"--and I would recommend that to anyone, QRO OR QRP (Physics is Physics when it comes to radio!) Yes, HARA is looking a bit beat up after all of these years. Let's hope that efforts are made to repair and upgrade the arena a bit, instead of tearing it down like they seem to do to way too many buildings. You see this all to often, I think, like when "new" malls are built, and really the "old" ones were fine, and there are really no "new" stores in the "new" mall anyway! Columbus, OH comes to mind--the Tuttle, Polaris, and Easton malls went up, and Westland and Eastland areas suffer. I also miss the Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. Air Canada Centre is nice, but I miss the "older" arena expereince, know what I mean? A tip of the Telegrapher's Green Visor to all of the fine folks at DARA for yet another wonderful Hamvention. | ||
| K0NEB | 2009-06-05 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| Actually, homemade music videos are ENCOURAGED on YouTube. There are TONS of them. They rejected one of my videos due to YouTube not having a copyright license for WMG music. But, Yahoo as a corporation did have such an agreement with WMG, thus it is allowed there. The other song was OK'd by YouTube. I know because when they rejected my first show, it happened within minutes of it being uploaded due to the WMG problem. Google, owner of YouTube and AOL, Yahoo, etc. have entered into agreements with the major labels to pay them royalties based on the number of hits these videos get. The record companies Made these agreements to open online videos as a new revenue stream. In this case, Google pays the record companies, and also reaps revenues from ads and referral traffic when someone hears the song and orders in from many online music sources. Most of the record labels feel these homemade productions are a new outlet for their material, similar to radio play, that enhances the value of their product. Like I said, if it is not allowed by these sites, they IMMEDIATELY reject them now upon upload as they scan them for such material. So, Enjoy the shows! 73, Joe K0NEB Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 NEB, - you must of spent a fortune on securing great music. I'm sure you submitted sync licenses to ASCAP/BMI? Unless you pay for blanket use? Here's where you submit your $$$$$. http://www.ascap.com/licensing/generalreports.ht BMI reporting here - http://www.bmi.com/licensing/?link=navbar This explains pretty well - snip below from - http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/copyright-for-video-producers My daughter’s Girl Scout troop is doing a cookie sale in the local mall. There is copyrighted music playing in the background on the mall’s Muzak system. Do I need to worry about it when I shoot a video of my daughter and post it on the web? This is a trick question. If the music is only ancillary and incidental, and not heard as part of the video, but merely ‘noise’ in the background, you might be OK. As a matter of law, this is an infringement so consult an attorney before streaming this. If you cut the video in time to the music, and the music is heard clearly so as to constitute a perceptible, substantial part of the work, then you are more than likely in violation. You certainly couldn’t copy your work in this instance and post it to the web; not only could the performance issue bite you, so could sync, patent and other issues. I’m doing a run and gun interview of a skateboarder and Three Doors Down* was giving a concert while I interviewed and shot footage of this kid. You can hear their music in the background while he’s speaking, and while he’s on the half-pipe. What do I need to worry about? First, during the interview, you need to worry about nothing, as it’s ancillary/incidental music. But while he’s not speaking, while he’s performing in the half-pipe. You’d best find some royalty free, needle-drop, original, or other legal music form to replace the background audio. Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 or maybe the lady luck would smile.. roll the bones! Reply to a comment by : K5END on 2009-06-04 > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K5END | 2009-06-05 | |
|---|---|---|
| roll the bones! | ||
| . "roll the bones!" When they say, "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas," what they really mean is "what cash one happens to bring to Vegas stays in Vegas." :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 or maybe the lady luck would smile.. roll the bones! Reply to a comment by : K5END on 2009-06-04 > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K5END | 2009-06-05 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| . NWH, there is one other way to avoid infringement. Your post indicates you are knowledgeable, so undoubtedly you know this already. As far as the authored property, music that has expired and fallen into public domain is free. (A recorded performance is another matter.) Best example of this is classical music and old, "folk" songs. That's why they use so much classical music for broadcast commmercials and on the telephone while you wait "on hold" for the customer service rep, "Jeff," or "Mindy," from India. They use Mozart's "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" so much that it they have ruined it for me personally. There is classical music even suitable for half-pipe, surfing, etc. For example, a lot of music composed/arranged for classical guitar works quite well with adrenaline/extreme sports. OK, sorry to derail thread. Back to your regularly scheduled forum. Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 NEB, - you must of spent a fortune on securing great music. I'm sure you submitted sync licenses to ASCAP/BMI? Unless you pay for blanket use? Here's where you submit your $$$$$. http://www.ascap.com/licensing/generalreports.ht BMI reporting here - http://www.bmi.com/licensing/?link=navbar This explains pretty well - snip below from - http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/copyright-for-video-producers My daughter’s Girl Scout troop is doing a cookie sale in the local mall. There is copyrighted music playing in the background on the mall’s Muzak system. Do I need to worry about it when I shoot a video of my daughter and post it on the web? This is a trick question. If the music is only ancillary and incidental, and not heard as part of the video, but merely ‘noise’ in the background, you might be OK. As a matter of law, this is an infringement so consult an attorney before streaming this. If you cut the video in time to the music, and the music is heard clearly so as to constitute a perceptible, substantial part of the work, then you are more than likely in violation. You certainly couldn’t copy your work in this instance and post it to the web; not only could the performance issue bite you, so could sync, patent and other issues. I’m doing a run and gun interview of a skateboarder and Three Doors Down* was giving a concert while I interviewed and shot footage of this kid. You can hear their music in the background while he’s speaking, and while he’s on the half-pipe. What do I need to worry about? First, during the interview, you need to worry about nothing, as it’s ancillary/incidental music. But while he’s not speaking, while he’s performing in the half-pipe. You’d best find some royalty free, needle-drop, original, or other legal music form to replace the background audio. Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 or maybe the lady luck would smile.. roll the bones! Reply to a comment by : K5END on 2009-06-04 > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| W7NWH | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| NEB, - you must of spent a fortune on securing great music. I'm sure you submitted sync licenses to ASCAP/BMI? Unless you pay for blanket use? Here's where you submit your $$$$$. http://www.ascap.com/licensing/generalreports.ht BMI reporting here - http://www.bmi.com/licensing/?link=navbar This explains pretty well - snip below from - http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/copyright-for-video-producers My daughter’s Girl Scout troop is doing a cookie sale in the local mall. There is copyrighted music playing in the background on the mall’s Muzak system. Do I need to worry about it when I shoot a video of my daughter and post it on the web? This is a trick question. If the music is only ancillary and incidental, and not heard as part of the video, but merely ‘noise’ in the background, you might be OK. As a matter of law, this is an infringement so consult an attorney before streaming this. If you cut the video in time to the music, and the music is heard clearly so as to constitute a perceptible, substantial part of the work, then you are more than likely in violation. You certainly couldn’t copy your work in this instance and post it to the web; not only could the performance issue bite you, so could sync, patent and other issues. I’m doing a run and gun interview of a skateboarder and Three Doors Down* was giving a concert while I interviewed and shot footage of this kid. You can hear their music in the background while he’s speaking, and while he’s on the half-pipe. What do I need to worry about? First, during the interview, you need to worry about nothing, as it’s ancillary/incidental music. But while he’s not speaking, while he’s performing in the half-pipe. You’d best find some royalty free, needle-drop, original, or other legal music form to replace the background audio. Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-04 or maybe the lady luck would smile.. roll the bones! Reply to a comment by : K5END on 2009-06-04 > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| W7NWH | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| or maybe the lady luck would smile.. roll the bones! Reply to a comment by : K5END on 2009-06-04 > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K0NEB | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my first time driving in 17 years and my 30th trip. In my new hybrid, I got about 50MPG..only cost me 67 bucks for gas round trip..not bad for almost 1600 miles of driving! Yes, Hara continues to be Hara. And Dayton is Dayton. Hats off to DARA for their hard work...folks it is run by VOLUNTEERS! How many trade shows of this size can make that claim? Yes, I AM the "Cat In The Hat" guy...and what is under that hat appears when you click on my slide shows. I try to capture what the sights of the event are and set them to music. For those that have been there and want to remember, here they are. Watch my shows and listen and enjoy! Show #1 - "Just What I Needed" http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5105861/13542034 Show #2 - "My 30th Trip" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8AiPHsd6xc 73 de Joe, K0NEB Lincoln, Nebraska | ||
| K9MHZ | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Dayton Hamvention's cool. Hara's a pit. Maybe DARA might look downtown at a convention center sometime? If you get the flea market indoors as well, you might get more sellers. As for moving to a new location, again, Dayton's perfect in one respect....it's within 90 minutes by plane (adjust for automobile speeds) to something like 75% of the population of the U.S. There's a reason that FedEx (Memphis, Indy), UPS (Louisville), DHL/ABX (Wilmington, OH), and the USPS (Indy) all have their air hub sorting facilities nearby. If DARA moves away from HARA (smart move), they shouldn't go too far. Brad K9MHZ Reply to a comment by : N3OS on 2009-06-04 Well I just have to add my two cents as it is just about all I have left after returning from the Hamvention. Brought things to sell and managed to sell a few things at what I thought were fair prices. I met up with old friends who had tailgate space already so I didn't have that expense to worry about. I bought plenty of needed items at great prices, but as luck would have it I had to order a few things on-line having forgotten to pick them up while running to and fro at the arena. I had been going year after year when I lived in Maryland but the drive from Florida kept me from joining in the fun for the past nine years or so. I really wanted to see my old police buddies so I made the sacrifice this year. The sacrifice comes in the next paragraph. I shared my room with Ray Martin, W2RM, who is a friend of a friend and now My Friend. We were staying at the Baymont Inn & Suites in Huber Heights and this is where the sacrifice comes in. Friday afternoon while we were enjoying the first day of the Hamvention the hotel's maid entered our room and without cleaning the room she left without securing the door. Guess what then occurred... Yup, someone came in and did her job for her so to speak. They cleaned up alright! The hotel, part of the Wyn dumb chain of hotels, refused to be responsible for our loss claiming we should have taken everything with us for the day. Poor Ray was put in the position of having to wash his underwear and socks as they didn't leave him a thing to wear! The hotel's computer verified the maid's entry at 1630 hours and then our return to the room at 2000 hours with the door still open but we got screwed royal. The rate got jacked up by $20 for each day from what was previously confirmed and reserved. The Hamvention Committee lets these hotels get away with this and doesn't put the word out as to which hotels to stay away from... Let me tell you - stay away from the Baymont Inn!! I heard more complaints each morning from other guests (not all were hams either) about so many different things. When talking to some local police they gave us some tips of other hotels to choose from, not the one we were in. Lesson learned - Very expensive schooling this year!! Other than that I had a great time seeing friends. One I had not seen in 20 to 25 years I guess. Truly worth the trip from Dade City, Florida. Maybe I will just fly next year... | ||
| K9WI | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I've been going almost every year since the early 80s. As far as moving it - it is DARA so talks of Columbus or Vagas are just plain stupid. I agree that the place is run down and such, however I also remember the days when the fleemarket was just gravel. The Hamvention has never really recovered since changing the date from April to May. I think it might have been a mistake, although you rarely see snow in May as it did sometimes in April. Turnout was rather good this year. There were not a lot of inside table that were empth. The Annual ARRL section may have had something to do with it. There were quite a few empty or only parking spots in the fleemarket, but not as many as last year - the filled some spots last year with seating. Prices are where you find them. $5 for a coke? Didn't see them but then again the vendors were working for charity. We used to stay in Dayton at a dump for $140 a night (I heard they were charging $80 this year - must have had a lot of surplus.) Now we stay in Richmond. A little farther to drive but $49 a night. | ||
| N3OS | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Well I just have to add my two cents as it is just about all I have left after returning from the Hamvention. Brought things to sell and managed to sell a few things at what I thought were fair prices. I met up with old friends who had tailgate space already so I didn't have that expense to worry about. I bought plenty of needed items at great prices, but as luck would have it I had to order a few things on-line having forgotten to pick them up while running to and fro at the arena. I had been going year after year when I lived in Maryland but the drive from Florida kept me from joining in the fun for the past nine years or so. I really wanted to see my old police buddies so I made the sacrifice this year. The sacrifice comes in the next paragraph. I shared my room with Ray Martin, W2RM, who is a friend of a friend and now My Friend. We were staying at the Baymont Inn & Suites in Huber Heights and this is where the sacrifice comes in. Friday afternoon while we were enjoying the first day of the Hamvention the hotel's maid entered our room and without cleaning the room she left without securing the door. Guess what then occurred... Yup, someone came in and did her job for her so to speak. They cleaned up alright! The hotel, part of the Wyn dumb chain of hotels, refused to be responsible for our loss claiming we should have taken everything with us for the day. Poor Ray was put in the position of having to wash his underwear and socks as they didn't leave him a thing to wear! The hotel's computer verified the maid's entry at 1630 hours and then our return to the room at 2000 hours with the door still open but we got screwed royal. The rate got jacked up by $20 for each day from what was previously confirmed and reserved. The Hamvention Committee lets these hotels get away with this and doesn't put the word out as to which hotels to stay away from... Let me tell you - stay away from the Baymont Inn!! I heard more complaints each morning from other guests (not all were hams either) about so many different things. When talking to some local police they gave us some tips of other hotels to choose from, not the one we were in. Lesson learned - Very expensive schooling this year!! Other than that I had a great time seeing friends. One I had not seen in 20 to 25 years I guess. Truly worth the trip from Dade City, Florida. Maybe I will just fly next year... | ||
| WA4KCN | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| When it comes to ham fests bigger is better and Dayton is it baby! Nothing else compares even close. Dayton rocks if your a radio man. Much preferable to attend a big smelly ham fest than a small clean one. Hamcation is fine but it's not even in the same league as the big D! Wise up boys and get to Dayton in 10. 73 Russ Wa4KCN Reply to a comment by : K8CXM on 2009-06-03 I guess I am one of the lucky ones, Dayton's Hara arena is only 45 miles from my house, so travel and a place to stay isn't a problem. I've only missed 4 Hamventions in the years that I've been licensed, and that's 48. Think I missed a couple while in college and at least two right after I was married (I'll never forgive my wife of 39 years for that). I will continue to go as long as I am able. Yea, maybe Hara has gotten a bit more tacky, and, yea, maybe the crowds are down a bit, and ,yea, maybe the flea market is smaller with the same guys trying to sell the same junk I saw 40 years ago, but overall, I still haven't seen anything else like it. I have been to Orlando a couple of times, and I do find it very enjoyable. A LOT smaller but still plenty of vendors, in and out, to make it worthwhile. Plus, for me, it's in Florida and a nice excuse to escape the crummy weather we have in February in southern Ohio. But,the two shows are not comparable: Dayton is gigantic while Orlando very less so. For all it's flaws, Dayton is still the biggest and best ham show around. It may have lost it's luster a bit with age, but don't we all. It's still the one to beat. BTW, in 44 trips to the show, I haven't won so much as a callbook (or CD). But,I still consider myself lucky that I can go almost ever year (at an affordable cost) and see so many old ham friends. And, I am always able to find that little piece of 'junk' that I missed 40 years ago. Hope the DARC can keep it going, either at Hara or some other nearby venue. Jim Bob Buckeye - K8CXM - since 1961 Reply to a comment by : K8QV on 2009-06-02 " I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. " As a former Ohioan also, I went to my first Dayton event in 1964. I went to a few since then. It was great. I haven't been back lately, and only have reports and photos from my old ham buddy in Ohio to rely on. It still seems like it's fun. But I have to echo the comments on Orlando. To me, it's the perfect venue. It's Florida in February, and less than an hour's drive to any of the major attractions the city has to offer. Major manufacturers and vendors are always in attendance, and the camping area and flea markets seem to be going over pretty well. It reminds me of the old trips to Dayton, but with (usually) nicer weather. The facility is well suited for the convention. Convenient parking and motels and restaurants are in easy reach. And it's only $8 advance admission, $10 at the door. With the right promotion, Orlando could easily become the new Dayton as far as hams are concerned. It's always well organized and clean. If you're put off by recent Dayton experiences, try the Orlando Hamcation. If you still feel something is lacking, Dayton will still be happening shortly after your Orlando vacation. Reply to a comment by : K8AC on 2009-06-02 To AA8LL: I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. Reply to a comment by : AA8LL on 2009-06-02 The Dayton Hamvention is an "International Treasure." 57 Years! Highlights: $20 admission for a 3-day "International Convention" (Yes, it's $25 if you wait until you're at the door.) Tens of thousands of dollars in prizes! (I won a monster, Mosley PRO-67C3 in 1996, that's been good for 336 current DXCC and DXCC for all 7-bands it covers. Not so much lately.) Compare that to $1000 for food and lodging posted here. Hotel too much? The campground will make room for you. Food too much? Walmart is nearby. All the best Vendors, DXers, Contesters, are in one place along with all your buds who can pony up the $20 and make their way to Dayton. Downsides: Thousand of hams. Some of them complain. It might rain. Waaaaa! Would Dayton be better with "paradise weather" ? No, then I couldn't afford to live here. See you next year! Dayton Hamvention 2010 May 14-16 2010 We hope you plan to attend! http://www.hamvention.org/ 73, Wade, AA8LL (the above comments are only mine and do not represent DARA or the Hamvention with which I am a very minor sometimes volunteer.) Reply to a comment by : K0BG on 2009-06-02 I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K8GT | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| G3RZP, Peter, One of the highlights of the Hamvention for me is seeing you again, old friend. Always a pleasure to have a chat over a 'pint'. 73, Gerry, K8GT Reply to a comment by : G3RZP on 2009-06-03 I guess my biggest problem is transport. I use miles which restricts me to American. This year, they insisted that to use miles, I had to fly London - Chicago - Dallas - Dayton. The 1905 flight from Dallas boarded at 2110, and went tech at 2120. I got to the hotel at 0050, having been travelling for 26 hours.....One used to be able to leave London at 1330 and via Chicago, get to Dayton for 1900. No longer. But I've missed two years sionce 1991 and aim to be back next year - the social side is as much as anything for me. I bought a pair of 572Bs for one of my friends, a FT1000D roofing filter for another, and for me, $15 for 15 ceramic antenna insulators. That's the way it goes. I've made some very good friends at Dayton over the years - KA9FOX, K9PG, K9NW, WE9V, W1YM, K1UQT just to name a few. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that American hams are rather friendlier and less 'stand-offish' than here in Europe. So I like Dayton. But if the town is being hard hit with industry moving away, it may not be possible to keep enough facilities going to really run Hamvention, and maybe it needs to move. Reply to a comment by : K4KYV on 2009-06-02 I have been coming to Dayton for many years, since the late 60's. The biggest mistake they ever made was when they moved it from the original date. It used to be held on the THIRD weekend of April. It was sometimes cold; I have seen it spit snow, while other years it was sunny and might have been in the mid 80's. But it rarely rained. I recall a promotional ad sometime in the early 70's; they said "Come on to Dayton. It has been rained out only twice in 22 years." Then, for unknown reasons, some genius decided to move it one week later, to the LAST weekend in April. You wouldn't think only seven days would make that much difference, but at least one day of the event got rained out practically every year after the change. I recall one year when it poured down solid both days and the flea market never really got under way. Every single time that I went after the change of date and it poured rain, I would ask some of the locals what the weather had been like the week before; inevitably they told me that the weather was great the week before and would have been ideal for the hamfest. I think out of an eight-year period it was nice all three days only once after the date change, but practically every one of those rained out years would have had good weather if they had kept the original date. So after being rained out year after year, they decided to change the date again. Instead of going back to the original date, they moved it to mid May. There has been less rain since then, but it still gets rained on more than it did at the old date. But another problem with the new May date is that it conflicts with one of the recent fads in education, to start the school year early in August and let out in early to mid May. Now, the hamfest coincides with graduation at many high schools and universities. I used to teach school, and I had to miss one year because it was the weekend of my daughter's graduation, and for the next 3 years, the last day of school (the one day in the entire year that I COULDN'T miss) fell on the opening date of the hamfest. From what I saw, attendance is definitely down. I can remember many years when it was almost impossible to wade through the crowds of people in the flea market, and the indoor areas were like a tin of sardines - especially when it was raining. This year I had absolutely no trouble navigating either the indoor or outdoor areas. And there were MANY unused spaces in the flea market. I think they should go back to a two-day event. For many years it was Saturday only, or Saturday and Sunday. The only things open Friday were for vendors to set up. Then it was extended to a half-day on Friday, and finally a full day on Friday, but only a half day on Sunday. Making Saturday once again the opening day would be more fair to those who have to work Fridays and cannot get time off. If you are coming for the flea market, everything will have been well picked over by Saturday, so it wouldn't be worth making the trip from a great distance away. If the flea market continues to dwindle, it should be reduced in size, and some of the space could be converted back to general parking. I can recall when there was plenty of general parking in the area in front of the arena and to the side, adjacent to the flea market, but over the years, the VIP parking has grown and the flea market area expanded, until now there is little or no parking within easy walking distance. It is ridiculous having to haul heavy purchases a half mile to the vehicle, or worse still, lugging it to a remote parking area via shuttle bus. One positive observation: I have noticed the past two years that the security guards have been much more accommodating and less rude. For years, they seemed to go out of their way to be rude to everyone, and I am sure their attitude problem contributed at least in part to the drop-off in attendance. Apparently the hamfest people finally wised up and hired a different security firm. | ||
| K5END | 2009-06-04 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| > If they moved it to Vegas, everyone would lose their money on the first night in the hotel and not spend it on Ham gear. :) Reply to a comment by : W7NWH on 2009-06-03 Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| W7NWH | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| What happens in Vegas - stays in Vegas! | ||
| Vegas is a natural choice - great weather, fun for non-hams, lots of hotel choices, tasty/reasonable food, the current arena and local area is like.. we'll let's just call it dilapidated and a little long in the tooth, friends in attendance called it worse. A little air conditioning goes a long way! Just because it's hosted by DARA doesn't mean Hamvention needs to be in Dayton - time to move it around a little. I did NAB years ago in Atlanta and Vegas, they MOVED it around so people on both coasts could benefit every other year. I'll trade the worn out, stuffy and dirty cow palace for Ceasars Palace any day! Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K8CXM | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I guess I am one of the lucky ones, Dayton's Hara arena is only 45 miles from my house, so travel and a place to stay isn't a problem. I've only missed 4 Hamventions in the years that I've been licensed, and that's 48. Think I missed a couple while in college and at least two right after I was married (I'll never forgive my wife of 39 years for that). I will continue to go as long as I am able. Yea, maybe Hara has gotten a bit more tacky, and, yea, maybe the crowds are down a bit, and ,yea, maybe the flea market is smaller with the same guys trying to sell the same junk I saw 40 years ago, but overall, I still haven't seen anything else like it. I have been to Orlando a couple of times, and I do find it very enjoyable. A LOT smaller but still plenty of vendors, in and out, to make it worthwhile. Plus, for me, it's in Florida and a nice excuse to escape the crummy weather we have in February in southern Ohio. But,the two shows are not comparable: Dayton is gigantic while Orlando very less so. For all it's flaws, Dayton is still the biggest and best ham show around. It may have lost it's luster a bit with age, but don't we all. It's still the one to beat. BTW, in 44 trips to the show, I haven't won so much as a callbook (or CD). But,I still consider myself lucky that I can go almost ever year (at an affordable cost) and see so many old ham friends. And, I am always able to find that little piece of 'junk' that I missed 40 years ago. Hope the DARC can keep it going, either at Hara or some other nearby venue. Jim Bob Buckeye - K8CXM - since 1961 Reply to a comment by : K8QV on 2009-06-02 " I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. " As a former Ohioan also, I went to my first Dayton event in 1964. I went to a few since then. It was great. I haven't been back lately, and only have reports and photos from my old ham buddy in Ohio to rely on. It still seems like it's fun. But I have to echo the comments on Orlando. To me, it's the perfect venue. It's Florida in February, and less than an hour's drive to any of the major attractions the city has to offer. Major manufacturers and vendors are always in attendance, and the camping area and flea markets seem to be going over pretty well. It reminds me of the old trips to Dayton, but with (usually) nicer weather. The facility is well suited for the convention. Convenient parking and motels and restaurants are in easy reach. And it's only $8 advance admission, $10 at the door. With the right promotion, Orlando could easily become the new Dayton as far as hams are concerned. It's always well organized and clean. If you're put off by recent Dayton experiences, try the Orlando Hamcation. If you still feel something is lacking, Dayton will still be happening shortly after your Orlando vacation. Reply to a comment by : K8AC on 2009-06-02 To AA8LL: I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. Reply to a comment by : AA8LL on 2009-06-02 The Dayton Hamvention is an "International Treasure." 57 Years! Highlights: $20 admission for a 3-day "International Convention" (Yes, it's $25 if you wait until you're at the door.) Tens of thousands of dollars in prizes! (I won a monster, Mosley PRO-67C3 in 1996, that's been good for 336 current DXCC and DXCC for all 7-bands it covers. Not so much lately.) Compare that to $1000 for food and lodging posted here. Hotel too much? The campground will make room for you. Food too much? Walmart is nearby. All the best Vendors, DXers, Contesters, are in one place along with all your buds who can pony up the $20 and make their way to Dayton. Downsides: Thousand of hams. Some of them complain. It might rain. Waaaaa! Would Dayton be better with "paradise weather" ? No, then I couldn't afford to live here. See you next year! Dayton Hamvention 2010 May 14-16 2010 We hope you plan to attend! http://www.hamvention.org/ 73, Wade, AA8LL (the above comments are only mine and do not represent DARA or the Hamvention with which I am a very minor sometimes volunteer.) Reply to a comment by : K0BG on 2009-06-02 I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| WC3O | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I don't like Hamvention. Nope, I love it. As long as I am still converting oxygen into carbon dioxide, I plan on being there next year. The price to get a spot in the market is a steal. Everyone that is anyone in Hamland is there. We always have a super time. I just can't wait to return next year. Got the room reserved and am ready to pack my bags now! I don't like Hara. I love it. Please keep it there as long as you can. Any place else and it would be worse. I always enjoy reading about how it is not as crowded as in the 80s. Were you in a coma all this time? Just wake up? I'll take it now over the 80s any day of the week. The weather? Hey brain surgeon, you're in Dayton! hi I love meeting up with friends there, eating together and wondering the halls. The outside market can not be beat. I'm getting all yahoo just thinking about it! Hey, CU there Many many many many thanks to all the volunteers that make it work. I truly appreciate it. Many do. Thanks again! DE WC3O Dayton | ||
| KU4UV | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| My twin brother and I have been attending Hamvention every year now since 2005. I think this was probably the most fun I have had since I have been attending. I drove up to Dayton on Friday from Lexington, Kentucky after I got off work in the morning. My brother and I drove back to Dayton together on Saturday morning. The weather was nice both days, with Friday being sunny and warm. Saturday was a little cooler, but still pleasant weather. I didn't buy a whole lot, basically because of the economy. Last year, I lost my job at a Toyota assembly plant here in Kentucky a week after I attended Hamvention, so it is good to at least be working again a year later. I never attended Hamvention in it's glory years, so I can't really comment on the crowds. It seems like the flea market area is basically the same stuff every year, but maybe it's just me. Yes, I do wish Hara could be fixed up, but it just ain't gonna happen as they say. Trotwood also is a city that needs some improvement in my opinion, but that's another story. It was really neat getting to see Dr. Owen Garriott and his son Richard. Richard put on an excellent forum presentation on Saturday about his trip to the ISS last October. Dr. Garriott actually sat three seats down from my brother and me, so that was really cool as well. I had a book about Skylab and the space program when I was a little kid, before the shuttle program, so I already knew about Dr. Garriott. I hope to be back at Dayton in 2010, Lord willing. Hope everyone who attended had a great time! 73, Michael KU4UV Richmond, KY. | ||
| W3HR | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| >>I think they should go back to a two-day event.<< Oh, I hope not. 3 days is barely enough time to see it all. It usually takes a good day and a half to cover the flea market. >>I was in the FCC forum and agree with another poster that some hams need to be introduced to the daily shower/bath and not just on Saturday night! The stench in the room was quite nauseating.<< That was forum room 2 I mentioned in my post above. We'd tried to attend the AR Newsline Town Meeting in that room prior to the FCC forum. There was no air conditioning, and many of the lights were not working either. I really wanted to go to the FCC forum, but it was scheduled for the room we'd just evacuated, so there was no way I was going back in there. | ||
| W4UDX | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton Hamvention hearing Hell's Bells | ||
| Just watched YouTube videos on Orlando Hamcation 2009. I have relatives in Florida I can stay with (who doesn't?) I am switching next year to Orlando. More real radio gear and less junk, and I can tell that by a 6 minute video. Dayton Hamvention is terminal. | ||
| G3RZP | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| KC8VWM, The ways of American Airlines are unfathomable: a riddle inside a mystery inside an enigma. Coming home, it was changed to Dayton - St. Louis - Chicago. Just as well, as I was down for a 45 minute layover at Dallas, and the 'plane left Dayton 30 minutes late..... Reply to a comment by : KC8VWM on 2009-06-03 Chicago - Dallas - Dayton? Did the US tour huh? 73 Reply to a comment by : G3RZP on 2009-06-03 I guess my biggest problem is transport. I use miles which restricts me to American. This year, they insisted that to use miles, I had to fly London - Chicago - Dallas - Dayton. The 1905 flight from Dallas boarded at 2110, and went tech at 2120. I got to the hotel at 0050, having been travelling for 26 hours.....One used to be able to leave London at 1330 and via Chicago, get to Dayton for 1900. No longer. But I've missed two years sionce 1991 and aim to be back next year - the social side is as much as anything for me. I bought a pair of 572Bs for one of my friends, a FT1000D roofing filter for another, and for me, $15 for 15 ceramic antenna insulators. That's the way it goes. I've made some very good friends at Dayton over the years - KA9FOX, K9PG, K9NW, WE9V, W1YM, K1UQT just to name a few. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that American hams are rather friendlier and less 'stand-offish' than here in Europe. So I like Dayton. But if the town is being hard hit with industry moving away, it may not be possible to keep enough facilities going to really run Hamvention, and maybe it needs to move. Reply to a comment by : K4KYV on 2009-06-02 I have been coming to Dayton for many years, since the late 60's. The biggest mistake they ever made was when they moved it from the original date. It used to be held on the THIRD weekend of April. It was sometimes cold; I have seen it spit snow, while other years it was sunny and might have been in the mid 80's. But it rarely rained. I recall a promotional ad sometime in the early 70's; they said "Come on to Dayton. It has been rained out only twice in 22 years." Then, for unknown reasons, some genius decided to move it one week later, to the LAST weekend in April. You wouldn't think only seven days would make that much difference, but at least one day of the event got rained out practically every year after the change. I recall one year when it poured down solid both days and the flea market never really got under way. Every single time that I went after the change of date and it poured rain, I would ask some of the locals what the weather had been like the week before; inevitably they told me that the weather was great the week before and would have been ideal for the hamfest. I think out of an eight-year period it was nice all three days only once after the date change, but practically every one of those rained out years would have had good weather if they had kept the original date. So after being rained out year after year, they decided to change the date again. Instead of going back to the original date, they moved it to mid May. There has been less rain since then, but it still gets rained on more than it did at the old date. But another problem with the new May date is that it conflicts with one of the recent fads in education, to start the school year early in August and let out in early to mid May. Now, the hamfest coincides with graduation at many high schools and universities. I used to teach school, and I had to miss one year because it was the weekend of my daughter's graduation, and for the next 3 years, the last day of school (the one day in the entire year that I COULDN'T miss) fell on the opening date of the hamfest. From what I saw, attendance is definitely down. I can remember many years when it was almost impossible to wade through the crowds of people in the flea market, and the indoor areas were like a tin of sardines - especially when it was raining. This year I had absolutely no trouble navigating either the indoor or outdoor areas. And there were MANY unused spaces in the flea market. I think they should go back to a two-day event. For many years it was Saturday only, or Saturday and Sunday. The only things open Friday were for vendors to set up. Then it was extended to a half-day on Friday, and finally a full day on Friday, but only a half day on Sunday. Making Saturday once again the opening day would be more fair to those who have to work Fridays and cannot get time off. If you are coming for the flea market, everything will have been well picked over by Saturday, so it wouldn't be worth making the trip from a great distance away. If the flea market continues to dwindle, it should be reduced in size, and some of the space could be converted back to general parking. I can recall when there was plenty of general parking in the area in front of the arena and to the side, adjacent to the flea market, but over the years, the VIP parking has grown and the flea market area expanded, until now there is little or no parking within easy walking distance. It is ridiculous having to haul heavy purchases a half mile to the vehicle, or worse still, lugging it to a remote parking area via shuttle bus. One positive observation: I have noticed the past two years that the security guards have been much more accommodating and less rude. For years, they seemed to go out of their way to be rude to everyone, and I am sure their attitude problem contributed at least in part to the drop-off in attendance. Apparently the hamfest people finally wised up and hired a different security firm. | ||
| K5ADF | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I have been going to Dayton since 1999. I am not sure why I waited so long as I have always enjoyed going since that first time. This year due to an accident I was not as ambulatory as usual but still did manage to get around to the booths particularly inside. I tend to spend most of my time inside talking to the various vendors and drooling over the new equipment. Thanks to the ever present rain, I was not able to do my usual rounds of the flea market on Saturday. Having been raised in Indiana, it is no surprise that it rains at least one day during Hamvention. Welcome to the Midwest. I agree with the comment about the QCWA booth and the congestion. I make it a point to stop by early on Friday when they are still accessible. I am the treasurer of chapter 38. I do wish they would get a better booth location perhaps on the end of a row so that two sides were accessible. I was in the FCC forum and agree with another poster that some hams need to be introduced to the daily shower/bath and not just on Saturday night! The stench in the room was quite nauseating. I realize it had been raining and some were wet but it was more than just wet clothes that were clean when put on that morning. I enjoy most meeting all my fellow hams that I talk to during the year on the radio. For three days I immerse myself in ham radio and close out the rest of the world. The trip is worth it and I get to visit my relatives still living in Indiana. I have been going to Orlando since 2001 and have seen it grow. It is a really nice experience as another poster mentioned and worth the consideration. While their inside vendor area is not as large as Hamvention, it does have quite a few of them. The special sales of new equipment seen at Dayton is not there though. Their flea market is smaller. Quite a number of the group I meet in Dayton is also in Orlando. It is worth the trip and you can go visit Mickey while you are in the area. See you in Orlando and Dayton in 2010. | ||
| AJ9C | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| More important than the tour, the bottle scotch made it to the CP intact! Mike/aj9c Reply to a comment by : G3RZP on 2009-06-03 I guess my biggest problem is transport. I use miles which restricts me to American. This year, they insisted that to use miles, I had to fly London - Chicago - Dallas - Dayton. The 1905 flight from Dallas boarded at 2110, and went tech at 2120. I got to the hotel at 0050, having been travelling for 26 hours.....One used to be able to leave London at 1330 and via Chicago, get to Dayton for 1900. No longer. But I've missed two years sionce 1991 and aim to be back next year - the social side is as much as anything for me. I bought a pair of 572Bs for one of my friends, a FT1000D roofing filter for another, and for me, $15 for 15 ceramic antenna insulators. That's the way it goes. I've made some very good friends at Dayton over the years - KA9FOX, K9PG, K9NW, WE9V, W1YM, K1UQT just to name a few. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that American hams are rather friendlier and less 'stand-offish' than here in Europe. So I like Dayton. But if the town is being hard hit with industry moving away, it may not be possible to keep enough facilities going to really run Hamvention, and maybe it needs to move. Reply to a comment by : K4KYV on 2009-06-02 I have been coming to Dayton for many years, since the late 60's. The biggest mistake they ever made was when they moved it from the original date. It used to be held on the THIRD weekend of April. It was sometimes cold; I have seen it spit snow, while other years it was sunny and might have been in the mid 80's. But it rarely rained. I recall a promotional ad sometime in the early 70's; they said "Come on to Dayton. It has been rained out only twice in 22 years." Then, for unknown reasons, some genius decided to move it one week later, to the LAST weekend in April. You wouldn't think only seven days would make that much difference, but at least one day of the event got rained out practically every year after the change. I recall one year when it poured down solid both days and the flea market never really got under way. Every single time that I went after the change of date and it poured rain, I would ask some of the locals what the weather had been like the week before; inevitably they told me that the weather was great the week before and would have been ideal for the hamfest. I think out of an eight-year period it was nice all three days only once after the date change, but practically every one of those rained out years would have had good weather if they had kept the original date. So after being rained out year after year, they decided to change the date again. Instead of going back to the original date, they moved it to mid May. There has been less rain since then, but it still gets rained on more than it did at the old date. But another problem with the new May date is that it conflicts with one of the recent fads in education, to start the school year early in August and let out in early to mid May. Now, the hamfest coincides with graduation at many high schools and universities. I used to teach school, and I had to miss one year because it was the weekend of my daughter's graduation, and for the next 3 years, the last day of school (the one day in the entire year that I COULDN'T miss) fell on the opening date of the hamfest. From what I saw, attendance is definitely down. I can remember many years when it was almost impossible to wade through the crowds of people in the flea market, and the indoor areas were like a tin of sardines - especially when it was raining. This year I had absolutely no trouble navigating either the indoor or outdoor areas. And there were MANY unused spaces in the flea market. I think they should go back to a two-day event. For many years it was Saturday only, or Saturday and Sunday. The only things open Friday were for vendors to set up. Then it was extended to a half-day on Friday, and finally a full day on Friday, but only a half day on Sunday. Making Saturday once again the opening day would be more fair to those who have to work Fridays and cannot get time off. If you are coming for the flea market, everything will have been well picked over by Saturday, so it wouldn't be worth making the trip from a great distance away. If the flea market continues to dwindle, it should be reduced in size, and some of the space could be converted back to general parking. I can recall when there was plenty of general parking in the area in front of the arena and to the side, adjacent to the flea market, but over the years, the VIP parking has grown and the flea market area expanded, until now there is little or no parking within easy walking distance. It is ridiculous having to haul heavy purchases a half mile to the vehicle, or worse still, lugging it to a remote parking area via shuttle bus. One positive observation: I have noticed the past two years that the security guards have been much more accommodating and less rude. For years, they seemed to go out of their way to be rude to everyone, and I am sure their attitude problem contributed at least in part to the drop-off in attendance. Apparently the hamfest people finally wised up and hired a different security firm. | ||
| KC8VWM | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Chicago - Dallas - Dayton? Did the US tour huh? 73 Reply to a comment by : G3RZP on 2009-06-03 I guess my biggest problem is transport. I use miles which restricts me to American. This year, they insisted that to use miles, I had to fly London - Chicago - Dallas - Dayton. The 1905 flight from Dallas boarded at 2110, and went tech at 2120. I got to the hotel at 0050, having been travelling for 26 hours.....One used to be able to leave London at 1330 and via Chicago, get to Dayton for 1900. No longer. But I've missed two years sionce 1991 and aim to be back next year - the social side is as much as anything for me. I bought a pair of 572Bs for one of my friends, a FT1000D roofing filter for another, and for me, $15 for 15 ceramic antenna insulators. That's the way it goes. I've made some very good friends at Dayton over the years - KA9FOX, K9PG, K9NW, WE9V, W1YM, K1UQT just to name a few. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that American hams are rather friendlier and less 'stand-offish' than here in Europe. So I like Dayton. But if the town is being hard hit with industry moving away, it may not be possible to keep enough facilities going to really run Hamvention, and maybe it needs to move. Reply to a comment by : K4KYV on 2009-06-02 I have been coming to Dayton for many years, since the late 60's. The biggest mistake they ever made was when they moved it from the original date. It used to be held on the THIRD weekend of April. It was sometimes cold; I have seen it spit snow, while other years it was sunny and might have been in the mid 80's. But it rarely rained. I recall a promotional ad sometime in the early 70's; they said "Come on to Dayton. It has been rained out only twice in 22 years." Then, for unknown reasons, some genius decided to move it one week later, to the LAST weekend in April. You wouldn't think only seven days would make that much difference, but at least one day of the event got rained out practically every year after the change. I recall one year when it poured down solid both days and the flea market never really got under way. Every single time that I went after the change of date and it poured rain, I would ask some of the locals what the weather had been like the week before; inevitably they told me that the weather was great the week before and would have been ideal for the hamfest. I think out of an eight-year period it was nice all three days only once after the date change, but practically every one of those rained out years would have had good weather if they had kept the original date. So after being rained out year after year, they decided to change the date again. Instead of going back to the original date, they moved it to mid May. There has been less rain since then, but it still gets rained on more than it did at the old date. But another problem with the new May date is that it conflicts with one of the recent fads in education, to start the school year early in August and let out in early to mid May. Now, the hamfest coincides with graduation at many high schools and universities. I used to teach school, and I had to miss one year because it was the weekend of my daughter's graduation, and for the next 3 years, the last day of school (the one day in the entire year that I COULDN'T miss) fell on the opening date of the hamfest. From what I saw, attendance is definitely down. I can remember many years when it was almost impossible to wade through the crowds of people in the flea market, and the indoor areas were like a tin of sardines - especially when it was raining. This year I had absolutely no trouble navigating either the indoor or outdoor areas. And there were MANY unused spaces in the flea market. I think they should go back to a two-day event. For many years it was Saturday only, or Saturday and Sunday. The only things open Friday were for vendors to set up. Then it was extended to a half-day on Friday, and finally a full day on Friday, but only a half day on Sunday. Making Saturday once again the opening day would be more fair to those who have to work Fridays and cannot get time off. If you are coming for the flea market, everything will have been well picked over by Saturday, so it wouldn't be worth making the trip from a great distance away. If the flea market continues to dwindle, it should be reduced in size, and some of the space could be converted back to general parking. I can recall when there was plenty of general parking in the area in front of the arena and to the side, adjacent to the flea market, but over the years, the VIP parking has grown and the flea market area expanded, until now there is little or no parking within easy walking distance. It is ridiculous having to haul heavy purchases a half mile to the vehicle, or worse still, lugging it to a remote parking area via shuttle bus. One positive observation: I have noticed the past two years that the security guards have been much more accommodating and less rude. For years, they seemed to go out of their way to be rude to everyone, and I am sure their attitude problem contributed at least in part to the drop-off in attendance. Apparently the hamfest people finally wised up and hired a different security firm. | ||
| G3RZP | 2009-06-03 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I guess my biggest problem is transport. I use miles which restricts me to American. This year, they insisted that to use miles, I had to fly London - Chicago - Dallas - Dayton. The 1905 flight from Dallas boarded at 2110, and went tech at 2120. I got to the hotel at 0050, having been travelling for 26 hours.....One used to be able to leave London at 1330 and via Chicago, get to Dayton for 1900. No longer. But I've missed two years sionce 1991 and aim to be back next year - the social side is as much as anything for me. I bought a pair of 572Bs for one of my friends, a FT1000D roofing filter for another, and for me, $15 for 15 ceramic antenna insulators. That's the way it goes. I've made some very good friends at Dayton over the years - KA9FOX, K9PG, K9NW, WE9V, W1YM, K1UQT just to name a few. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that American hams are rather friendlier and less 'stand-offish' than here in Europe. So I like Dayton. But if the town is being hard hit with industry moving away, it may not be possible to keep enough facilities going to really run Hamvention, and maybe it needs to move. Reply to a comment by : K4KYV on 2009-06-02 I have been coming to Dayton for many years, since the late 60's. The biggest mistake they ever made was when they moved it from the original date. It used to be held on the THIRD weekend of April. It was sometimes cold; I have seen it spit snow, while other years it was sunny and might have been in the mid 80's. But it rarely rained. I recall a promotional ad sometime in the early 70's; they said "Come on to Dayton. It has been rained out only twice in 22 years." Then, for unknown reasons, some genius decided to move it one week later, to the LAST weekend in April. You wouldn't think only seven days would make that much difference, but at least one day of the event got rained out practically every year after the change. I recall one year when it poured down solid both days and the flea market never really got under way. Every single time that I went after the change of date and it poured rain, I would ask some of the locals what the weather had been like the week before; inevitably they told me that the weather was great the week before and would have been ideal for the hamfest. I think out of an eight-year period it was nice all three days only once after the date change, but practically every one of those rained out years would have had good weather if they had kept the original date. So after being rained out year after year, they decided to change the date again. Instead of going back to the original date, they moved it to mid May. There has been less rain since then, but it still gets rained on more than it did at the old date. But another problem with the new May date is that it conflicts with one of the recent fads in education, to start the school year early in August and let out in early to mid May. Now, the hamfest coincides with graduation at many high schools and universities. I used to teach school, and I had to miss one year because it was the weekend of my daughter's graduation, and for the next 3 years, the last day of school (the one day in the entire year that I COULDN'T miss) fell on the opening date of the hamfest. From what I saw, attendance is definitely down. I can remember many years when it was almost impossible to wade through the crowds of people in the flea market, and the indoor areas were like a tin of sardines - especially when it was raining. This year I had absolutely no trouble navigating either the indoor or outdoor areas. And there were MANY unused spaces in the flea market. I think they should go back to a two-day event. For many years it was Saturday only, or Saturday and Sunday. The only things open Friday were for vendors to set up. Then it was extended to a half-day on Friday, and finally a full day on Friday, but only a half day on Sunday. Making Saturday once again the opening day would be more fair to those who have to work Fridays and cannot get time off. If you are coming for the flea market, everything will have been well picked over by Saturday, so it wouldn't be worth making the trip from a great distance away. If the flea market continues to dwindle, it should be reduced in size, and some of the space could be converted back to general parking. I can recall when there was plenty of general parking in the area in front of the arena and to the side, adjacent to the flea market, but over the years, the VIP parking has grown and the flea market area expanded, until now there is little or no parking within easy walking distance. It is ridiculous having to haul heavy purchases a half mile to the vehicle, or worse still, lugging it to a remote parking area via shuttle bus. One positive observation: I have noticed the past two years that the security guards have been much more accommodating and less rude. For years, they seemed to go out of their way to be rude to everyone, and I am sure their attitude problem contributed at least in part to the drop-off in attendance. Apparently the hamfest people finally wised up and hired a different security firm. | ||
| K4KYV | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I have been coming to Dayton for many years, since the late 60's. The biggest mistake they ever made was when they moved it from the original date. It used to be held on the THIRD weekend of April. It was sometimes cold; I have seen it spit snow, while other years it was sunny and might have been in the mid 80's. But it rarely rained. I recall a promotional ad sometime in the early 70's; they said "Come on to Dayton. It has been rained out only twice in 22 years." Then, for unknown reasons, some genius decided to move it one week later, to the LAST weekend in April. You wouldn't think only seven days would make that much difference, but at least one day of the event got rained out practically every year after the change. I recall one year when it poured down solid both days and the flea market never really got under way. Every single time that I went after the change of date and it poured rain, I would ask some of the locals what the weather had been like the week before; inevitably they told me that the weather was great the week before and would have been ideal for the hamfest. I think out of an eight-year period it was nice all three days only once after the date change, but practically every one of those rained out years would have had good weather if they had kept the original date. So after being rained out year after year, they decided to change the date again. Instead of going back to the original date, they moved it to mid May. There has been less rain since then, but it still gets rained on more than it did at the old date. But another problem with the new May date is that it conflicts with one of the recent fads in education, to start the school year early in August and let out in early to mid May. Now, the hamfest coincides with graduation at many high schools and universities. I used to teach school, and I had to miss one year because it was the weekend of my daughter's graduation, and for the next 3 years, the last day of school (the one day in the entire year that I COULDN'T miss) fell on the opening date of the hamfest. From what I saw, attendance is definitely down. I can remember many years when it was almost impossible to wade through the crowds of people in the flea market, and the indoor areas were like a tin of sardines - especially when it was raining. This year I had absolutely no trouble navigating either the indoor or outdoor areas. And there were MANY unused spaces in the flea market. I think they should go back to a two-day event. For many years it was Saturday only, or Saturday and Sunday. The only things open Friday were for vendors to set up. Then it was extended to a half-day on Friday, and finally a full day on Friday, but only a half day on Sunday. Making Saturday once again the opening day would be more fair to those who have to work Fridays and cannot get time off. If you are coming for the flea market, everything will have been well picked over by Saturday, so it wouldn't be worth making the trip from a great distance away. If the flea market continues to dwindle, it should be reduced in size, and some of the space could be converted back to general parking. I can recall when there was plenty of general parking in the area in front of the arena and to the side, adjacent to the flea market, but over the years, the VIP parking has grown and the flea market area expanded, until now there is little or no parking within easy walking distance. It is ridiculous having to haul heavy purchases a half mile to the vehicle, or worse still, lugging it to a remote parking area via shuttle bus. One positive observation: I have noticed the past two years that the security guards have been much more accommodating and less rude. For years, they seemed to go out of their way to be rude to everyone, and I am sure their attitude problem contributed at least in part to the drop-off in attendance. Apparently the hamfest people finally wised up and hired a different security firm. | ||
| AI4HO | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Not sure if I should be airing this here or letting the hamvention powers that be about this first. I have been going to Dayton for 6 years now, and have had a grand time each and every time including this years trip, except for one minor thing. You see, I transport certain products and equipment up for certain vertical antenna manufacturer who lives less than 20 miles from me. As my friend and I unloaded my 2009 Ford Ranger Thursday morning, having received permission from security to back my truck in as it was raining like a cow peeing on a flat rock that morning. Well, we got done, parked the truck outside being very careful NOT to park in one of the tail gate areas, didn't want to get anyone riled up. I had been in and out all day long, either taking something to or from my vehicle. I had taken our packet inside to give to the owner, and failed to pull the extra parking pass out and go right back out and put it in my vehicle. It had been maybe an hour, hour and fifteen minutes since I had been to my vehicle, and was on the way out to put my parking pass in my vehiclend to dig into my first aid kit as I had punctured my finger on a staple that had been sticking out of the end of a table we were moving. Well imagine my shock and horror, when upon coming outside my bright shiny new Ford Ranger was gone!! It took over an hour with myself, and the person who's products I transported to Dayton, talking with several personell that were part of the DARA staff trying to find my truck. At one point I heard a radio transmission stating that I was to go to the communications trailer and bring $100. I don't think so! Needless to say by this time I was NOT a happy camper. I asked several of the "security" personell where my truck was, and all I got was a shrug and an "I don't know" " It got towed" Where? I asked again, to which I received the same shrug and I don't know as before. My truck was finally located in the courtesy parking area. OK, OK, I got my truck back, walked around my vehicle, making sure there was no external damage, which there was none. Now then, the one thing that really frosted my ass, was the fact that my vehicle had been entered! My drivers side door was unlocked but the passenger side was still locked, now then had both doors been unlocked, highly unlikely but possible, I would have presumed that I had stupidly left my vehicle unlocked, again highly unlikely but possible. One thing that I am anal about is locking my vehicle, its is such a habit, I even lock it in our drive, not that I need to but I do. How dare they enter my vehicle without my permission, by this time I was livid. My attempts at talking with someone in charge was met with well they're not here right now, or, they're unavailable, all weekend long ?I came up against the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I had a grand time at the hamvention, if all goes well I'll be able to go again next year. All I wanted were some answers to what I thought were valid questions. I made sure I was not parking in someones area,, wouldn't it have been easier just to come inside and maybe ask around, hey who owns the red Ranger with the Fl. tag W3LZK? I wasn't THAT far away or that busy that I couldn't have taken a few minutes and move my vehicle. Anyway, as I said in the beginning, don't kno if I should have aired this here or let someone from the hamvention staff know first. Well it is what it is, and what's done is done, hopefully next year I wont have some body with a quick hook try and take my truck away. See you all in Dayton again next year! FWIW, if anyone associated with the Dayton event is reading these posts, and would like to contact me about this, my e mail is w3lzk@comcast.net 73 de Mark W3LZK | ||
| K8OCN | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I think I have went to Dayton 8 times in the last 28 years since I was licensed. This year I took a friend that has been a Ham for over 5 years and never went. HE had a ball (spend to much money HA HA) I know as long as I can I will be back. Its not perfect but when you figure all the planning that must go into it I think its excellent. I was a little concerned about the area but we were ok, and with the construction I felt like I was home (Mount Morris, Michigan). I got a deal of a lifetime on the Hotel room it was just over 100$ a night and we stayed 3 nights. It had 2 separate bedrooms one on in a loft. 2 bathrooms and a complete kitchen. I called my Wife and told her I was never coming home HA HA. We spend around 500$ on hotel, travel, and food, if you knew me you would know I eat anywhere I am! As far as the arena, yes its getting older and seems to be out of TP most of the time ...... Bring your own butt wipe I guess. But I thought hams were tough not girlie men! The only problem I have is I am aver weight (Fat) and have feet problems and the parking lot is in bad shape. I fell once but I understand if the business is not there every day to pay for it they can not afford to re blacktop such a large area. We need to steal their computer they use to display the winning numbers, get them a SLOWER one, I can not hardly read the numbers. My friend won twice so that was a real treat to me with someone that has won something and he had a ball. Thank You all the people that must work very hard to make the hamvention happen. I will be back next year Good Lord Permitting. Delbert McCord KA8OCN | ||
| WA4KCN | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Dayton oh Dayton what a wonderful experience. There is nothing but nothing like Dayton. Pure Ham ecstasy. If you have not been you will experience an out of body sensation as you literally float through the almost endless flea market. An elevated sensation of bliss will come over you as a narcotic might coupled with a trancelike dissociation from everything but pure ham ecstasy. OK its smelly but who cares. When Austrialian guys are walking around the flea market with 80 meter AM military radio backpacks from the 50's, we can all agree a little stinch can be overlooked. We dont need a nicer facility! This is ham radio were supposed to be dirty. And the crowds are just about right. Many more people and its too crowded. I spent all day Friday in the flea market and didn't get a close enough look at everything. Gosh its beautiful man walking through the flea market eating a char grilled burger,sipping on a cool one, and smoking a cigar. Pure bliss! Oh and the forums are fabulous. Great speakers, great topics, a lot to learn. Any ham who cant enjoy Dayton is watching too much TV news and has forgotten how to have fun. If you haven't gone, then go go go! 73 Russ Wa4KCN | ||
| W9OY | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Plus if you're going to fly its a heck of a lot easier to connect to Orlando than Dayton 73 W9OY Reply to a comment by : KK8ZZ on 2009-06-02 Come to Cleveland. The IX Center can literally hold the entire flea market AND the vendors area (minus the cars parked next to the flea market booths). Indoors, air conditioned, reasonable food costs. It's one of the world's largest indoor spaces - and it's always clean, and the bathrooms never smell. (This year at Hara the stench was overwhelming - you literally had to breathe through your mouth just to get to the urinals, and the stalls were unmentionable!). Better airport connections too, and lots of reasonable lodging. | ||
| AB0RE | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Forget the Swine Flu mask.... Bring a Nose Plug!! | ||
| I had a blast! A bad weekend at Dayton beats a good weekend of work around the house any day. That being said... My only complaint was the "wet dog" phenomenon. When it rained on Saturday and everybody came inside it wreaked of body odor very badly. The FCC Forum was terrible in these regards. It was nice of us to extend such a cordial welcome to the FCC's Laura Smith - I'm sure she thinks very highly of us and is beating the door down at the VE session so she can get her ticket and join our ranks. I'm glad we have Dayton at Hara - it'd be a shame if we stunk up a nice facility elsewhere. Shower people!! Reply to a comment by : KK8ZZ on 2009-06-02 Come to Cleveland. The IX Center can literally hold the entire flea market AND the vendors area (minus the cars parked next to the flea market booths). Indoors, air conditioned, reasonable food costs. It's one of the world's largest indoor spaces - and it's always clean, and the bathrooms never smell. (This year at Hara the stench was overwhelming - you literally had to breathe through your mouth just to get to the urinals, and the stalls were unmentionable!). Better airport connections too, and lots of reasonable lodging. | ||
| KK8ZZ | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Come to Cleveland. The IX Center can literally hold the entire flea market AND the vendors area (minus the cars parked next to the flea market booths). Indoors, air conditioned, reasonable food costs. It's one of the world's largest indoor spaces - and it's always clean, and the bathrooms never smell. (This year at Hara the stench was overwhelming - you literally had to breathe through your mouth just to get to the urinals, and the stalls were unmentionable!). Better airport connections too, and lots of reasonable lodging. | ||
| K5END | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| . "bent over and showing the goods" and by "the goods" I bet you don't mean that boring radio stuff. "'what' radio stuff," you say? Reply to a comment by : W3HR on 2009-06-02 I love going to Dayton, and have driven there from PA (with a stop to pick up friends and visit family in KY) for the past three years, since becoming active again. Before then, I guess my last Hamvention must have been in '86 or '87. Next year, though, I am flying! The long drives are just too tiring. As others have noted, we dodged the weather bullet again pretty good this year. Lots of treasures in the flea market. I saw a lot of audio consoles this time, but no cart machines - just the opposite from last year (I keep an eye out for old broadcast equipment). Our group found some good bargains to take home, however, and everyone was a happy camper for the most part. I did come up on one flea market space that had several good-sized tables of stuff, and about 20 people standing in front of one of them in a semi-circle. 'Ooh, wonder what's goin' on over there!' I think. Some cool display, no doubt. I try to get closer to see what the interest is all about. It was a display alright: a well-developed girl in her early 20s, wearing a low-cut top, bent over and showing the goods. Yes, advertising at it's best! I just laughed. Saw the usual "celebs" there: Gordon West, Bill Pasternak, Bob Heil, et.al. The two cute brunettes who normally cause a commotion at the US Towers booth were noticeably absent this year (wonder how that affected their sales?). Also didn't see Nancy Kott at the FISTS CW Club booth... was she even there? Speaking of Nancy, it was odd not seeing the World Radio booth. We took in the Gordon West forum as usual, always lots of fun! Tried to attend the AR Newsline Town Meeting, but the forum room was just too muggy, so we had to duck out early. Gripes: The Hara restrooms need to have some sort of ventilation going!! The stench is unbearable and spills out into the corridors! I tell ya, it's a sad commentary when the lowly porta potties are cleaner -and smell better- than the indoor restrooms! There was no air conditioning in many rooms where it was desperately needed - Forum Room 2 comes to mind. Also, a lot of the ceiling lights were not working. Hara needs to place more benches or folding chairs around the premises -- it's hard on us oldsters to have to walk all the way back to the main arena or the cafeteria just to find a place to sit down! Fwiw, those arena seats are too small and close together for many people to fit in - so seating becomes especially critical. And, no, I'm not going to rent a scooter... I want to actually SEE the displays, not peer at them through a sea of legs. I AM thinking of backpacking a folding camping chair next year, though. Finally, and I know Hara has nothing to do with this, but you'd think the Hamvention is still a major event for Dayton... why, then, did the DOT have Needmore road tied up with construction barrels?! Those could've easily been moved aside for the weekend. | ||
| W3HR | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I love going to Dayton, and have driven there from PA (with a stop to pick up friends and visit family in KY) for the past three years, since becoming active again. Before then, I guess my last Hamvention must have been in '86 or '87. Next year, though, I am flying! The long drives are just too tiring. As others have noted, we dodged the weather bullet again pretty good this year. Lots of treasures in the flea market. I saw a lot of audio consoles this time, but no cart machines - just the opposite from last year (I keep an eye out for old broadcast equipment). Our group found some good bargains to take home, however, and everyone was a happy camper for the most part. I did come up on one flea market space that had several good-sized tables of stuff, and about 20 people standing in front of one of them in a semi-circle. 'Ooh, wonder what's goin' on over there!' I think. Some cool display, no doubt. I try to get closer to see what the interest is all about. It was a display alright: a well-developed girl in her early 20s, wearing a low-cut top, bent over and showing the goods. Yes, advertising at it's best! I just laughed. Saw the usual "celebs" there: Gordon West, Bill Pasternak, Bob Heil, et.al. The two cute brunettes who normally cause a commotion at the US Towers booth were noticeably absent this year (wonder how that affected their sales?). Also didn't see Nancy Kott at the FISTS CW Club booth... was she even there? Speaking of Nancy, it was odd not seeing the World Radio booth. We took in the Gordon West forum as usual, always lots of fun! Tried to attend the AR Newsline Town Meeting, but the forum room was just too muggy, so we had to duck out early. Gripes: The Hara restrooms need to have some sort of ventilation going!! The stench is unbearable and spills out into the corridors! I tell ya, it's a sad commentary when the lowly porta potties are cleaner -and smell better- than the indoor restrooms! There was no air conditioning in many rooms where it was desperately needed - Forum Room 2 comes to mind. Also, a lot of the ceiling lights were not working. Hara needs to place more benches or folding chairs around the premises -- it's hard on us oldsters to have to walk all the way back to the main arena or the cafeteria just to find a place to sit down! Fwiw, those arena seats are too small and close together for many people to fit in - so seating becomes especially critical. And, no, I'm not going to rent a scooter... I want to actually SEE the displays, not peer at them through a sea of legs. I AM thinking of backpacking a folding camping chair next year, though. Finally, and I know Hara has nothing to do with this, but you'd think the Hamvention is still a major event for Dayton... why, then, did the DOT have Needmore road tied up with construction barrels?! Those could've easily been moved aside for the weekend. | ||
| K8QV | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| " I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. " As a former Ohioan also, I went to my first Dayton event in 1964. I went to a few since then. It was great. I haven't been back lately, and only have reports and photos from my old ham buddy in Ohio to rely on. It still seems like it's fun. But I have to echo the comments on Orlando. To me, it's the perfect venue. It's Florida in February, and less than an hour's drive to any of the major attractions the city has to offer. Major manufacturers and vendors are always in attendance, and the camping area and flea markets seem to be going over pretty well. It reminds me of the old trips to Dayton, but with (usually) nicer weather. The facility is well suited for the convention. Convenient parking and motels and restaurants are in easy reach. And it's only $8 advance admission, $10 at the door. With the right promotion, Orlando could easily become the new Dayton as far as hams are concerned. It's always well organized and clean. If you're put off by recent Dayton experiences, try the Orlando Hamcation. If you still feel something is lacking, Dayton will still be happening shortly after your Orlando vacation. Reply to a comment by : K8AC on 2009-06-02 To AA8LL: I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. Reply to a comment by : AA8LL on 2009-06-02 The Dayton Hamvention is an "International Treasure." 57 Years! Highlights: $20 admission for a 3-day "International Convention" (Yes, it's $25 if you wait until you're at the door.) Tens of thousands of dollars in prizes! (I won a monster, Mosley PRO-67C3 in 1996, that's been good for 336 current DXCC and DXCC for all 7-bands it covers. Not so much lately.) Compare that to $1000 for food and lodging posted here. Hotel too much? The campground will make room for you. Food too much? Walmart is nearby. All the best Vendors, DXers, Contesters, are in one place along with all your buds who can pony up the $20 and make their way to Dayton. Downsides: Thousand of hams. Some of them complain. It might rain. Waaaaa! Would Dayton be better with "paradise weather" ? No, then I couldn't afford to live here. See you next year! Dayton Hamvention 2010 May 14-16 2010 We hope you plan to attend! http://www.hamvention.org/ 73, Wade, AA8LL (the above comments are only mine and do not represent DARA or the Hamvention with which I am a very minor sometimes volunteer.) Reply to a comment by : K0BG on 2009-06-02 I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K9NZ | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my 21 hamvention, I still think it is great! There is not as much in the flea market as there was years ago but that goes for all hamfest no matter where it is. Thanks to the internet and e-bay. That beening said I go to Dayton to see old freinds and see all the new gadget's. Dont let all the nay sayers bring it down, its still the best of the best. Every ham should make the trip once and see for yourself it's the best $20. ticket you will ever buy. See you next year if your lucky. | ||
| N0AH | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Upsides: 1. Direct jet flights on Frontier from Denver- 2. FREE VE Exams from Laurel ARC, FB! 3. Prep time and set up by ARRL, wow! fb ops! 4. One on one with almost 100% of exhibitors 5. HARA is the only place for Hamvention 6. Display of major brands, even MFJ (gag) 7. Seeing all sorts of friends 8. Lack of crowds experienced in 95/96- 9. Cheap T-shirts, badges, and hats- 10.Cool softwares- 11.Custom keys- 12.Too many auto/truck antennas to count in every parking lot- very awesome- 13. Did I say that the ARRL presence, displays, and help was awesome!!! 14. CQ Magazine too! Downsides: 1. $5 Cokes at Hara??? 2. Where are the bathrooms? 3. Lame Flea Market 4. Weather on Saturday.......rain, gee wiz- big surprise. 5. Still need two days......forever stuck at having only one...... Amazing event: 8 year old daughter passed Technician exam in Dayton, fb- KD0HUY............priceless, hi | ||
| K0IZ | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| My third Hamvention, had a great time. This year I attended Contest University on Thursday. Very worth my time and money. Excellent speakers, good material. Ran on time. Highly recommend. First time also I attended the DX dinner and Contest dinner. While I am a nobody in DX or Contests, it was very interesting to meet people, see some of the movers and shakers. Also I met a ham who was one of my best friends when 15 or 16, and both active in same radio club. He was attending his first Hamvention in 26 years, and I was attending my first dinner. First time to see each other since 1960. Made the trip. Flea market down maybe 15% from last year. Hamvention announced attendance up from last year, which I thought was great given the economy. Perhaps cheaper gas helped. Hara is Hara. After a while you forget (or accept) its failings. Not sure what the economies would be of an alternate site. Higher ticket prices might hurt more than a better place. Reply to a comment by : AI4VE on 2009-06-02 This was my first Dayton experience and I wasn't disappointed. A local ham here the NC Piedmont organizes a coach package that can't be beat. The round trip plus accommodations at Dayton University for three nights came to $250 each. The rooms were very nice and a short ride to Hara. It took my buddy and I all day Friday and until lunch on Saturday just to visit all the inside exhibitors. We spend a couple hours in the drizzle Saturday afternoon walking around the outside vendors, but were much more impressed with the inside. Enjoyed the DSR forum and even attended the FLEX discussions at the University Saturday night. I did my part for the economy by buying an IC-880 and TS-VX3. Also reserved a FLEX 1500 QRP DSR rig for when they're available in the fall. My favorite thing about Dayton was being able to meet and talk to the owners and top engineers at the various companies. Where else are you able to chat with Roy Lewallen about antenna modeling, Doug Hendricks about his QRP kits, Pietra and Bruna Begali while sampling their beautiful paddles, the FLEX and Elecraft owners and designers, and many more Ham luminaries all in the same day? I am already looking forward to next year. | ||
| AI4VE | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my first Dayton experience and I wasn't disappointed. A local ham here the NC Piedmont organizes a coach package that can't be beat. The round trip plus accommodations at Dayton University for three nights came to $250 each. The rooms were very nice and a short ride to Hara. It took my buddy and I all day Friday and until lunch on Saturday just to visit all the inside exhibitors. We spend a couple hours in the drizzle Saturday afternoon walking around the outside vendors, but were much more impressed with the inside. Enjoyed the DSR forum and even attended the FLEX discussions at the University Saturday night. I did my part for the economy by buying an IC-880 and TS-VX3. Also reserved a FLEX 1500 QRP DSR rig for when they're available in the fall. My favorite thing about Dayton was being able to meet and talk to the owners and top engineers at the various companies. Where else are you able to chat with Roy Lewallen about antenna modeling, Doug Hendricks about his QRP kits, Pietra and Bruna Begali while sampling their beautiful paddles, the FLEX and Elecraft owners and designers, and many more Ham luminaries all in the same day? I am already looking forward to next year. | ||
| KC9MXC | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my second Dayton trip and I was better prepared this year than the last. I knew what I was looking for and what the approximate cost should be. I really enjoyed the opportunity to meet some of the guys and gals behind some of the "smaller" merchandise. QRPme (Tuna Tin II) , Hamgadgets (picokeyer) and The Xtal Radio Society come to mind. I would say that with all my small (and large) purchases the money I saved on shipping charges more or less covered my gasoline costs. Now I have enough goodies and kits to keep me going through those long winter months while I count the days to the next Dayton Hamvention. | ||
| KC8VWM | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Like many who are posting here, I have been to Dayton on many occasions. Living in Columbus, Ohio helped quite a bit and so I would usually attend all three days. Well, I no longer live in Columbus, Ohio and it's becoming more difficult to attend "every" year. Yes, Hara Arena is showing it's age these days but if it were moved anywhere else, It wouldn't be... "Dayton." Thank you to all the staff, volunteers and many other participants who worked very hard to put on a world class show. Your unselfish efforts are most appreciated and you have provided me with an experience few people will ever know. Long live those who continue to preserve this most unique and historical amateur radio tradition we all know as "Dayton." Thank You. 73 de Charles - KC8VWM Reply to a comment by : KE7FD on 2009-06-02 I've now been to the Hamvention three times I think, maybe four. Anyway, I can't recall anything from one year or another other than the weather being better in May than in April; that's an improvement. We should not be surprised or alarmed if the Hamvention is not what it used to be. Anyone out there able to buy gas for $1 a gallon? Didn't think so. It's the economy... Of course it's not what it used to be, and it may not be for a while. Take it for what it's worth to you. If there are things you need or stuff you can pick up for the guys back home, go and have a good time. Attend some forums, play with the new rigs (ah, Kenwood, are you listening?), and rekindle some old friendships. How about that guy walking around with the 500W backpack radio and the Tarheel? Anyone standing next to him loose any hair when he fired that thing up? And that other guy who every year walks around in his Cat-in-the-hat hat? What's under that hat anyway? And does anyone know what's really in those cheeseburgers? I thought Yaesu gave some really nice hats away this year which obligates me to hold onto my FT-857D for another year, but not my VX5R (way too complicated for what little I use an HT for). I did buy a Kenwood look-a-like speaker from some guy outside that when I got it home didn't work. Glad I didn't sink a ton on that one. I've already replaced it with something better anyway. And I bought one small "medical" 12v battery on the left-hand side of the "main" aisle who when I went back to buy a second one, was gone. Don't you hate it when you do that? Did you ignore too that notion to buy two of something when you just bought the one? Now for those who feel the locals don't appreciate the $$ we bring to the area, I say this: That DARA or the Hamvention organizers should look at relocating the event somewhere else one year, but just once, and make sure Hara is reserved the following year. Why? That way, when we go back to Hara, the locals should welcome us back with open arms. But as for myself, I got a kick at the folks at the Waffle House who wore their Hamvention tee shirts, all of them. In fact, their food was good, inexpensive and fast. They were glad to see us and frankly, I believe they'd welcome us back anytime. I did make it home with all my goodies and we had a good time yakking all the way home, and not on the radio. Bill Cosby kept us laughing a bit too. See you next year! Maybe... | ||
| KE7FD | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I've now been to the Hamvention three times I think, maybe four. Anyway, I can't recall anything from one year or another other than the weather being better in May than in April; that's an improvement. We should not be surprised or alarmed if the Hamvention is not what it used to be. Anyone out there able to buy gas for $1 a gallon? Didn't think so. It's the economy... Of course it's not what it used to be, and it may not be for a while. Take it for what it's worth to you. If there are things you need or stuff you can pick up for the guys back home, go and have a good time. Attend some forums, play with the new rigs (ah, Kenwood, are you listening?), and rekindle some old friendships. How about that guy walking around with the 500W backpack radio and the Tarheel? Anyone standing next to him loose any hair when he fired that thing up? And that other guy who every year walks around in his Cat-in-the-hat hat? What's under that hat anyway? And does anyone know what's really in those cheeseburgers? I thought Yaesu gave some really nice hats away this year which obligates me to hold onto my FT-857D for another year, but not my VX5R (way too complicated for what little I use an HT for). I did buy a Kenwood look-a-like speaker from some guy outside that when I got it home didn't work. Glad I didn't sink a ton on that one. I've already replaced it with something better anyway. And I bought one small "medical" 12v battery on the left-hand side of the "main" aisle who when I went back to buy a second one, was gone. Don't you hate it when you do that? Did you ignore too that notion to buy two of something when you just bought the one? Now for those who feel the locals don't appreciate the $$ we bring to the area, I say this: That DARA or the Hamvention organizers should look at relocating the event somewhere else one year, but just once, and make sure Hara is reserved the following year. Why? That way, when we go back to Hara, the locals should welcome us back with open arms. But as for myself, I got a kick at the folks at the Waffle House who wore their Hamvention tee shirts, all of them. In fact, their food was good, inexpensive and fast. They were glad to see us and frankly, I believe they'd welcome us back anytime. I did make it home with all my goodies and we had a good time yakking all the way home, and not on the radio. Bill Cosby kept us laughing a bit too. See you next year! Maybe... | ||
| K3GM | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Scores of empty spaces, and spaces being only for parking in the flea market. It's time for DARA to see the proverbial writing on the wall. Each year sees attendance and vendor participation declining. How long will it be before DARA doesn't realize enough revenue to fund the event? But for them, it's business as usual. There is now close to half the parking area empty where it was once filled to capacity. This space could be put to good use. Why does DARA continue to look across Shiloh Springs Road and watch the cars queue up in the field for 8-10 bucks a day? Why not condense the fleamarket, and create an area for in-fleamarket parking? The number of spaces would be predetermined, and could only be purchased ahead of time with a general admission ticket. Attendees would have a guaranteed parking space, and would be able to access their vehicles without leaving the fleamarket area. It would get the parking-only people out of the selling area and make for a better fleamarket. It would also give DARA another source of revenue. Wake up DARA! The clock's ticking on this event. -K3GM- Reply to a comment by : WS4E on 2009-06-02 My biggest disappointment was the flea market area was nothing but tables and tables full of old commercial (Motorola etc) HT's, mobiles etc. I am sure some people like to use that stuff but from what I know the hassle of having to program them is not worth it. | ||
| N4KZ | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I attended my first Hamvention in 1976 and I've been back each year since. Not one year missed since I started going. Of course, living just a 2.5-hour drive away helps. So, I enjoy attending and look forward to it annually but that doesn't mean I don't have opinions about what might be made better. I've seen Hara Arena -- a privately owned venue, not a municipal facility as you might incorrectly assume -- grow older along with the rest of us. At least the A/C worked this year. For the vendors and DARA organizers, it would be nice to again have the record crowds of years gone by. But, honestly, the Hamvention wasn't as enjoyable during the years of record attendance because there were simply too many people in the arena. It was very difficult to even get close enough during those years to see items on exhibit or even approach a vendor so you might get waited on. Too many people simply detracted from the event. This year, it was fairly easy to get around and see everything one wanted to see. I still wish those staffing the QCWA exhibit could find a way for people to stand around and socialize while not blocking the entire front of the booth. Someday, if I can get close enough to the exhibit space when it's not blocked by folks standing around ragchewing, I just might join QCWA. I still believe something akin to working split frequency might work. Have the membership applications on the right end of the booth with a sign saying "UP" and pointing left for the social area. And just to make things realistic, a few people could be awarded frequency police badges so they could stand around and tell people, "Up, up, up." Just a suggestion, guys. In recent years, a few hams who live in and around Dayton have mentioned to me that they think there are some alternate facilities in the area that are sufficiently large to host Hamvention. Sounds interesting but without knowing more about such venues, their availability, pricing structures, available space and so much more, it's all speculation by those of us who attend regularly. But my feeling is that if such alternate sites existed with acceptable facilities, pricing and availability, DARA would have already made the move. I was really disappointed by this year's printed Hamvention program in that there was a chart showing the location of the vendors but no vendor list. The chart had numbers but nothing in the program listed who the numbers belonged to. I arrived at noon Friday. One of the first things I always do is check to see where some of my favorite vendors are located but couldn't do that this time. And while some vendors are in the same space annually, some do change spots. In 1976, a group of us arrived early on Saturday morning -- I mean in the pre-dawn hours and we parked right by the Hara Arena front door. And the Hamvention occupied just two exhibit halls inside Hara. Parking isn't so simple now and the show takes up a lot more space. It's still a good time and one I eagerly anticipate annually but it would be nice to know the convention's long-term plans. If and when the economy improves, there's no doubt the land Hara occupies will be worth much more than the current building is. It would appear to be prime land for development -- someday. In the meantime, see you next year and please put the vendor list back in the program. 73, Dave, N4KZ Reply to a comment by : K8AC on 2009-06-02 To AA8LL: I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. Reply to a comment by : AA8LL on 2009-06-02 The Dayton Hamvention is an "International Treasure." 57 Years! Highlights: $20 admission for a 3-day "International Convention" (Yes, it's $25 if you wait until you're at the door.) Tens of thousands of dollars in prizes! (I won a monster, Mosley PRO-67C3 in 1996, that's been good for 336 current DXCC and DXCC for all 7-bands it covers. Not so much lately.) Compare that to $1000 for food and lodging posted here. Hotel too much? The campground will make room for you. Food too much? Walmart is nearby. All the best Vendors, DXers, Contesters, are in one place along with all your buds who can pony up the $20 and make their way to Dayton. Downsides: Thousand of hams. Some of them complain. It might rain. Waaaaa! Would Dayton be better with "paradise weather" ? No, then I couldn't afford to live here. See you next year! Dayton Hamvention 2010 May 14-16 2010 We hope you plan to attend! http://www.hamvention.org/ 73, Wade, AA8LL (the above comments are only mine and do not represent DARA or the Hamvention with which I am a very minor sometimes volunteer.) Reply to a comment by : K0BG on 2009-06-02 I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K8AC | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| To AA8LL: I'm a former Ohioan and have made every Hamvention since 1962 except for the two times I was in a hospital that weekend. I watched it grow, and have watched it shrink. This year, we also drove down to the Orlando hamfest to see if that was worth attending in the future. Seems to me there isn't much to recommend the Hamvention after seeing the Orlando event. Most of the major vendors with displays at the Hamvention were present at Orlando. There was much more substance to the outdoor flea market (less of the commercial walkie-talkies and unknown surplus junk) and the large indoor flea market was primarily individuals selling stuff (as was once common in hamfest flea markets). We didn't have to wade through the puddles to get to porta-potties and weren't overcome by the stench of indoor bathrooms. We also didn't have to lug our purchases to the bus to get back to the car. The Orlando venue is a large fairgrounds, designed to host very large crowds and does it well. The rooms that the hamfest committee had arranged for at a resort hotel cost us LESS than the crummy places we've stayed in at Dayton. We've put up with the Dayton situation for many years thinking it might improve, but it never does. For many years we just considered the Hamvention shortcomings as something we had to endure to experience a good and large hamfest. After our visit to Orlando, we now know better and probably will never return to Dayton. Maybe the DARC should listen more carefully to some of the complaints voiced at the Hamvention. When you hear the same things over and over, year after year, there might be some substance to them. Simply referring to those who bring up these problems as whiners or complainers isn't very productive. Reply to a comment by : AA8LL on 2009-06-02 The Dayton Hamvention is an "International Treasure." 57 Years! Highlights: $20 admission for a 3-day "International Convention" (Yes, it's $25 if you wait until you're at the door.) Tens of thousands of dollars in prizes! (I won a monster, Mosley PRO-67C3 in 1996, that's been good for 336 current DXCC and DXCC for all 7-bands it covers. Not so much lately.) Compare that to $1000 for food and lodging posted here. Hotel too much? The campground will make room for you. Food too much? Walmart is nearby. All the best Vendors, DXers, Contesters, are in one place along with all your buds who can pony up the $20 and make their way to Dayton. Downsides: Thousand of hams. Some of them complain. It might rain. Waaaaa! Would Dayton be better with "paradise weather" ? No, then I couldn't afford to live here. See you next year! Dayton Hamvention 2010 May 14-16 2010 We hope you plan to attend! http://www.hamvention.org/ 73, Wade, AA8LL (the above comments are only mine and do not represent DARA or the Hamvention with which I am a very minor sometimes volunteer.) Reply to a comment by : K0BG on 2009-06-02 I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| WS4E | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| My biggest disappointment was the flea market area was nothing but tables and tables full of old commercial (Motorola etc) HT's, mobiles etc. I am sure some people like to use that stuff but from what I know the hassle of having to program them is not worth it. | ||
| KC8RWR | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I missed last year but was there this year and the year before. I may be totally off but I had the impression that the number of empty spots in the fleamarket was down a little from two years ago. Still not as full as I remember it being some time before that though. Fixing up the arena might be nice... but once all the displays are in place and the crowd is present I don't think it would look much different. That's not really what we go there for anyway is it? Ultimately what will make or break Hamvention or any hamfest, club, event, etc... is us. Did you choose to go? Why or why not? I know money was a big concern of many who didn't attend. You don't HAVE to burn all that gas driving there and rent a room though. (yes, I did) I know the local ham club in my area, TMRA (Toledo, OH) runs a bus down there for Saturday. I think I may choose that rout e if I cannot rent a room again next year. It's $30 to take the bus which in Toledo is about the price of movie tickets and popcorn for two. They have a nice big compartment in the bottom where you can put large items if you buy them. (tower sections anyone?) Not that you have to buy anything at all to benefit from going. How about seeing the people with your own eyes whom you talk to with your radios the rest of the year? Then there's the forums, the raffles and the fun of just looking. I realize most eHam readers are statistically unlikely to be any closer to Toledo than Dayton but I'm pretty sure that plenty of other locations have buses which go there for the day. If your local club doesn't maybe they are just waiting for YOU to suggest it?? | ||
| AA8LL | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| The Dayton Hamvention is an "International Treasure." 57 Years! Highlights: $20 admission for a 3-day "International Convention" (Yes, it's $25 if you wait until you're at the door.) Tens of thousands of dollars in prizes! (I won a monster, Mosley PRO-67C3 in 1996, that's been good for 336 current DXCC and DXCC for all 7-bands it covers. Not so much lately.) Compare that to $1000 for food and lodging posted here. Hotel too much? The campground will make room for you. Food too much? Walmart is nearby. All the best Vendors, DXers, Contesters, are in one place along with all your buds who can pony up the $20 and make their way to Dayton. Downsides: Thousand of hams. Some of them complain. It might rain. Waaaaa! Would Dayton be better with "paradise weather" ? No, then I couldn't afford to live here. See you next year! Dayton Hamvention 2010 May 14-16 2010 We hope you plan to attend! http://www.hamvention.org/ 73, Wade, AA8LL (the above comments are only mine and do not represent DARA or the Hamvention with which I am a very minor sometimes volunteer.) Reply to a comment by : K0BG on 2009-06-02 I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| WZ1P | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| As a vendor I thought that we did a land office business on Friday. Saturday was OK but even with the rain the crowd was a bit thin. Sunday I noticed many of the vendors were packing up and leaving early. We sold out of a lot of items so it was worth the trip again. Hara is not a very good spot for the Hamvention. It's a tired old arena. I think a change to a new upscale location would go a long way in improving a great old trade show. There must be someplace in Dayton that would fit the bill. 73, Dan. | ||
| WB4M | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I have been to Dayton 3 times, last time was back in 1998. Being an avid RTTY op, I enjoyed meeting many of the RTTY gang of the time.. it was always nice to see Bill and Mike and Joe of HAL Comm. I also enjoyed the RTTY Dinner and meetings on Saturday night. I really enjoyed the USAF museum at Wright Patterson AFB too. I'll never forget the fire department rolling up to the motel as we were leaving, hah.. I still have the video of that. But now it would cost me around $1500 to attend, so I doubt I'll ever make it back to Dayton. For the price of the weekend I could buy some nice ham goodies. | ||
| K0BG | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I've attended the Hamvention about 15 or so times, and this one was the third in a row. It was better than last year, but nothing like it used to be. I remember one, 1986 as I recall, that was nothing short of a zoo! Even with fair weather (it wasn't raining at the time), the inside area was shoulder to shoulder. This year, is wasn't crowded, even when it was raining! And I agree with the Hara being passé. You would think the city fathers would do something about the situation. I can't believe they turn their back on about 20,000 folks spending money at the local businesses. In my case, the motel and food bill alone was in excess of $1,000. If just half the attendees spent this amount, that's still $10 million. At least it didn't live up to the question: How do you know you're attending the Hamvention? Answer: It's raining! Alan, KØBG www.k0bg.com Reply to a comment by : N8NSN on 2009-06-02 Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| W6ZPC | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| This was my very first Dayton experience, and I wished I had an 'elmer' to guide me around. I found the locator map to be very hard to follow, especially coordinating the inside to the outside flea market area. I don't have any experience to compare it to, but it seemed there were a lot of people there, especially around the MFJ booth at the main entrance. It was elbow to elbow, but it was easier to get around once you got past that area. I experienced significant sensory overload from all the displays and vendors. My son (a non-ham)and I drove in from his home in Avon, Indiana, so could only spend one day at the event (Friday), still I was very impressed and want to go back next year and this time take my wife (KD0EAF) along. She decided she would rather spend time with the grandchildren in Avon and let the 'boys' go to Dayton. She is very interested in emergency power and I think she will find the displays and vendors offering back up power will be interesting to her. One of my biggest thrills was meeting Bob Heil. I use one of his microphones on my HF rig and I use a PR 40 at the broadcast station I work at, plus my daughter often babysits his grandchldren, but this was the first chance I had to meet him. Granted the area around the arena looked a bit seedy (especially with the weeds coming up through the pavement in the parking area we used), but looking back the entire experience was a very positive one. | ||
| N8NSN | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Well, being born and raised here in Dayton; I believe my 'opinion' (more of a concrete observation) is valid. Much like any given mid size city in the nation, Dayton is becoming a bit rougher each year. Today we are faced with the news that NCR is leaving the area. They are heading for the Atlanta area. Just one more major step in the direction which is 'downward' for Dayton, Ohio... I am not attempting to push doom and gloom, but it is what it is. That is to say the only entity holding Dayton together even in a remote sense will be Wright Patterson AFB. In the days of Fridgidaire, GM, Inland, Chrysler, Dayton Tire, NCR, Reynolds and Reynolds, Monarch Marketing/Marking, Drake, and a slew of others Dayton was a great place to raise a family and even hold international events such as Hamvention... sorry to say, not any more. Dayton is becoming a very dangerous place if you don't know the area(s) and where to stay away from, which is becoming a lot of areas. This is not a good sign in factors of safety, just to name one, for the Dayton area. Sadly, it may be time to move the Dayton Hamvention from the Hara Arena to another venue. Ervin J. Nutter Center would be a good consideration. It is located in Fairborn/Beavercreek and there are plenty of decent local accommodations. The facility itself is top notch. Schedueling and 'price' may be an issue but, we get what we pay for. Stiff upper lip, 73, jim (N8NSN) Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| K8AC | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| I think you can pretty well judge the overall attendance by the highest numbers you see on the monitors that display the prize numbers. At the peak years ago, the numbers ranged up to 28,000. The highest number we saw this year was 13,600 or so. Vast areas of the flea market were empty. It would be nice if there were some way to compact what's left of the flea market. Those who use their space only for parking might be allocated spaces on the fringe. Reply to a comment by : WA4SCA on 2009-06-02 My impression is that the flea market is shrinking, and the quality of the stuff offered is declining. Of course, there are still a few excellent vendors! My guess would be eBay and similar venues are killing traditional sellers. I am not aware of the final numbers, but according to discussions with DARA people while we were breaking down our inside booth, the turnout was at least level and probably up from last year. The commercial vendors were very happy, especially considering the state of the economy and the recent flu scare. Alan WA4SCA Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| G3RZP | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| It's a pity the Hara Arena is getting so dilapidated. The numbers are well down on what theyw ere in 90's, but it actually makes it possible to get around.I was on booth duty most of Friday, so didn't get to the flea market until it was raining! I didn't see any command tx's or rx's, although I'm told there were some. I'm after some 85kc/s IF transformers from a BC453 or even (if the price isn't too extortionate) a BC453. For me, one of the best parts of Dayton is seeing all the old friends again. Strange to say, I seem to know more people at Dayton than at any UK event! It was interesting to see the 'terrible twins' causing confusion as they walked round together - G3RBP and G3RPB! Looking forward to next year...... Reply to a comment by : WA4SCA on 2009-06-02 My impression is that the flea market is shrinking, and the quality of the stuff offered is declining. Of course, there are still a few excellent vendors! My guess would be eBay and similar venues are killing traditional sellers. I am not aware of the final numbers, but according to discussions with DARA people while we were breaking down our inside booth, the turnout was at least level and probably up from last year. The commercial vendors were very happy, especially considering the state of the economy and the recent flu scare. Alan WA4SCA Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| WA4SCA | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| RE: Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| My impression is that the flea market is shrinking, and the quality of the stuff offered is declining. Of course, there are still a few excellent vendors! My guess would be eBay and similar venues are killing traditional sellers. I am not aware of the final numbers, but according to discussions with DARA people while we were breaking down our inside booth, the turnout was at least level and probably up from last year. The commercial vendors were very happy, especially considering the state of the economy and the recent flu scare. Alan WA4SCA Reply to a comment by : WB4JZY on 2009-06-02 Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
| WB4JZY | 2009-06-02 | |
|---|---|---|
| Dayton 2009 Reflected | ||
| Lots of empty spaces. Smaller and smaller every year. | ||
