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Manager - AB7RG
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What's Happened to Rag Chewing?

Created by Edward F. Eggert, K3VO on 2020-01-26
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?

We all agree that band conditions are not the best. During the day I will check 40 meters and if the band is open all I hear are nets. There may be 20 or more waiting to get their chance to give their name, weather and not much else.

Yet, If I call CQ I seldom get a replay. All those guys waiting to get on the net I guess are not interested in having a real QSO.

Sometimes there are several nets all over the band.

The other day a new ham in my area asked if HF is just nets? He has yet to have a QSO on the HF bands.

After 65 years in this hobby it's not much fun anymore.

 

KG4YRY2022-11-13
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
FT8, D-star, PSK, Echolink and etc.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-02

I was hoping my apology for blowing this out of proportion would constitute a "73" moment for this unfortunate sidebar to an important thread. My friend N4KC insists, however, that he hasn't already added enough fuel to this particular fire and wants you all to know, once again, that I'm closed-minded, my opinion on ARRL is simply (and without a counter-argument) wrong, and that that organization's 83-pound "books" (mostly collections of long articles, some 50 years old) constitutes an assimilable body of knowledge sufficient to sustain and promote the hobby. If y'all are satisfied with what you see and hear around you, fine. I am an ARRL member and will continue to renew because ARRL is all we have at the national level, and I get more than $4 of enjoyment from reading QST. As for what I tell people I run into while operating: Be thankful, N4KC, that I don't simply run through what a typical club in this area affords them, which is twelve 90-minute-long business meetings and 12 Saturday breakfasts where you'd be hard pressed to see, much less operate, a radio or learn anything about the hobby. Be thankful I don't emphasize "community service" consisting of counting 13-year-old girls in leggings running past the Gatorade station during the Papillomavirus Awareness Week 5k. Be thankful I don't tell them that the most knowledgeable people in the club are tired after 50 years of QSLs and QRZs, and will help you but only if you ask about 30 times and know EXACTLY what you don't know, which for a newbie is impossible. Elmer Q. Ham passed away in the 1960s. Be thankful that I don't warn those 35-year-old mothers that the youngest person their little Jonathan is likely to see at a ham event is in his 30s, and that most everyone else is collecting Social Security. That is the reality in ARRL-land, what the hobby has become under the guidance of the Greatest Generation of amateur radio operators. If you're happy, fine, but don't be shocked that your demographics are collapsing and don't blame the messenger.
Reply to a comment by : N4KC on 2020-03-02

Well, Angelo, I'll be clear with you after a couple of comments. You paint with a very broad brush, OM. Such sweeping generalizations are almost always incorrect. And your charges against the ARRL are absolutely and completely wrong. But it's difficult to convince a man who is so stubbornly closed-minded. I can only hope you are not telling all those folks you meet while operating in the park to avoid the League because they support contests and sell ads in QST. I salute you for the effort (I do the same thing myself) but the League would be a wonderful asset to help you convert those visitors to the righteous path of ham radio. Unless, of course, you have a web site, books, articles, on-line help, study guides, archives of almost a hundred years of a monthly magazine devoted to the hobby indexed and available, and scores of people whose job it is to do that very thing. 73 and di-di-di-dah-di-dah, Don N4KC www.n4kc.com www.donkeith.com
K2MMO2020-05-15
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I usually try and get on morning either on 40 or 30 meters CW and if I call CQ I usually get an answer and most times a 20 to 30 minute ragchew happens sometimes from friends I have met over the years on the bands or first timers for me.
I can’t answer what happens on phone portion of bands as I do not monitor or work them.
As far as I am concerned ragchewing on CW is alive and well.
K2MMO2020-05-15
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I usually try and get on morning either on 40 or 30 meters CW and if I call CQ I usually get an answer and most times a 20 to 30 minute ragchew happens sometimes from friends I have met over the years on the bands or first timers for me.
I can’t answer what happens on phone portion of bands as I do not monitor or work them.
As far as I am concerned ragchewing on CW is alive and well.
KD2HPQ2020-03-02
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I was hoping my apology for blowing this out of proportion would constitute a "73" moment for this unfortunate sidebar to an important thread. My friend N4KC insists, however, that he hasn't already added enough fuel to this particular fire and wants you all to know, once again, that I'm closed-minded, my opinion on ARRL is simply (and without a counter-argument) wrong, and that that organization's 83-pound "books" (mostly collections of long articles, some 50 years old) constitutes an assimilable body of knowledge sufficient to sustain and promote the hobby.

If y'all are satisfied with what you see and hear around you, fine. I am an ARRL member and will continue to renew because ARRL is all we have at the national level, and I get more than $4 of enjoyment from reading QST.

As for what I tell people I run into while operating: Be thankful, N4KC, that I don't simply run through what a typical club in this area affords them, which is twelve 90-minute-long business meetings and 12 Saturday breakfasts where you'd be hard pressed to see, much less operate, a radio or learn anything about the hobby.

Be thankful I don't emphasize "community service" consisting of counting 13-year-old girls in leggings running past the Gatorade station during the Papillomavirus Awareness Week 5k.

Be thankful I don't tell them that the most knowledgeable people in the club are tired after 50 years of QSLs and QRZs, and will help you but only if you ask about 30 times and know EXACTLY what you don't know, which for a newbie is impossible. Elmer Q. Ham passed away in the 1960s.

Be thankful that I don't warn those 35-year-old mothers that the youngest person their little Jonathan is likely to see at a ham event is in his 30s, and that most everyone else is collecting Social Security.

That is the reality in ARRL-land, what the hobby has become under the guidance of the Greatest Generation of amateur radio operators.

If you're happy, fine, but don't be shocked that your demographics are collapsing and don't blame the messenger.
Reply to a comment by : N4KC on 2020-03-02

Well, Angelo, I'll be clear with you after a couple of comments. You paint with a very broad brush, OM. Such sweeping generalizations are almost always incorrect. And your charges against the ARRL are absolutely and completely wrong. But it's difficult to convince a man who is so stubbornly closed-minded. I can only hope you are not telling all those folks you meet while operating in the park to avoid the League because they support contests and sell ads in QST. I salute you for the effort (I do the same thing myself) but the League would be a wonderful asset to help you convert those visitors to the righteous path of ham radio. Unless, of course, you have a web site, books, articles, on-line help, study guides, archives of almost a hundred years of a monthly magazine devoted to the hobby indexed and available, and scores of people whose job it is to do that very thing. 73 and di-di-di-dah-di-dah, Don N4KC www.n4kc.com www.donkeith.com
N4KC2020-03-02
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?

Well, Angelo, I'll be clear with you after a couple of comments. You paint with a very broad brush, OM. Such sweeping generalizations are almost always incorrect.

And your charges against the ARRL are absolutely and completely wrong. But it's difficult to convince a man who is so stubbornly closed-minded. I can only hope you are not telling all those folks you meet while operating in the park to avoid the League because they support contests and sell ads in QST.

I salute you for the effort (I do the same thing myself) but the League would be a wonderful asset to help you convert those visitors to the righteous path of ham radio. Unless, of course, you have a web site, books, articles, on-line help, study guides, archives of almost a hundred years of a monthly magazine devoted to the hobby indexed and available, and scores of people whose job it is to do that very thing.

73 and di-di-di-dah-di-dah,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com


AJ6KZ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Well, sweet. :-)

Thank you for your note. I am currently only interested in CW myself and--apropos of this thread--I want to get to the rag chew capability. As it is, after about 15-20 minutes my brain gets a little tired and the decoding process suddenly gets much more difficult. But dang, CW is fun....
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-03-01

By the way, I should say that all of my operations (except on satellite) are on CW. I guess I shouldn't speak to what happens on the phone portion of the band, since I almost never listen to that.
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-03-01

For the record, in between this post and my last post on this thread, I answered a CQ from someone in central Pennsylania, and after we had a nice 40 minute QSO (i.e., a ragchew, which was the original point of this article), we signed and he called CQ and got an answer from someone else right away. This was all on 20 meters. I will say I was a member of a local ham club about 15 years ago and dumped them because it was pretty much clique ridden and ruled. I'm not joining another one because, although I'm retired from my main career, I have a very enjoyable second career that takes me away from home for between 5-6 months a year (when I go QRT except for occasional portable operation). Thus, I can't generalize from my single negative ham club experience to make broader generalizations about all ham clubs. I am an ARRL member and don't share the dislike that I see displayed against them by a lot of hams. I doubt that the ARRL is near perfect, but I enjoy reading QST, and it is the one voice of ham radio that gets some credibility with law makers. To KD2HPQ and AJ6KZ, if I hear your CQ, I'll answer. Best of luck.
Reply to a comment by : AJ6KZ on 2020-03-01

"Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not." I am new to the hobby but I have been suspecting this kind of behavior. At night I will call CQ on 40M many times only to hear static as a reply. Oddly enough, I can hit refresh on my QRZ page and note that people have been looking me up. Of course, it is every individual's choice who to respond to, but you more experienced hams out there should take a moment to consider the impact you can have by answering some CQs even if they don't get you any "points." And especially if it is a beginner. If you want to promote the hobby then help make the hobby rewarding.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KF0QS2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
By the way, I should say that all of my operations (except on satellite) are on CW. I guess I shouldn't speak to what happens on the phone portion of the band, since I almost never listen to that.
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-03-01

For the record, in between this post and my last post on this thread, I answered a CQ from someone in central Pennsylania, and after we had a nice 40 minute QSO (i.e., a ragchew, which was the original point of this article), we signed and he called CQ and got an answer from someone else right away. This was all on 20 meters. I will say I was a member of a local ham club about 15 years ago and dumped them because it was pretty much clique ridden and ruled. I'm not joining another one because, although I'm retired from my main career, I have a very enjoyable second career that takes me away from home for between 5-6 months a year (when I go QRT except for occasional portable operation). Thus, I can't generalize from my single negative ham club experience to make broader generalizations about all ham clubs. I am an ARRL member and don't share the dislike that I see displayed against them by a lot of hams. I doubt that the ARRL is near perfect, but I enjoy reading QST, and it is the one voice of ham radio that gets some credibility with law makers. To KD2HPQ and AJ6KZ, if I hear your CQ, I'll answer. Best of luck.
Reply to a comment by : AJ6KZ on 2020-03-01

"Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not." I am new to the hobby but I have been suspecting this kind of behavior. At night I will call CQ on 40M many times only to hear static as a reply. Oddly enough, I can hit refresh on my QRZ page and note that people have been looking me up. Of course, it is every individual's choice who to respond to, but you more experienced hams out there should take a moment to consider the impact you can have by answering some CQs even if they don't get you any "points." And especially if it is a beginner. If you want to promote the hobby then help make the hobby rewarding.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KF0QS2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
For the record, in between this post and my last post on this thread, I answered a CQ from someone in central Pennsylania, and after we had a nice 40 minute QSO (i.e., a ragchew, which was the original point of this article), we signed and he called CQ and got an answer from someone else right away. This was all on 20 meters.

I will say I was a member of a local ham club about 15 years ago and dumped them because it was pretty much clique ridden and ruled. I'm not joining another one because, although I'm retired from my main career, I have a very enjoyable second career that takes me away from home for between 5-6 months a year (when I go QRT except for occasional portable operation). Thus, I can't generalize from my single negative ham club experience to make broader generalizations about all ham clubs.

I am an ARRL member and don't share the dislike that I see displayed against them by a lot of hams. I doubt that the ARRL is near perfect, but I enjoy reading QST, and it is the one voice of ham radio that gets some credibility with law makers.

To KD2HPQ and AJ6KZ, if I hear your CQ, I'll answer. Best of luck.
Reply to a comment by : AJ6KZ on 2020-03-01

"Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not." I am new to the hobby but I have been suspecting this kind of behavior. At night I will call CQ on 40M many times only to hear static as a reply. Oddly enough, I can hit refresh on my QRZ page and note that people have been looking me up. Of course, it is every individual's choice who to respond to, but you more experienced hams out there should take a moment to consider the impact you can have by answering some CQs even if they don't get you any "points." And especially if it is a beginner. If you want to promote the hobby then help make the hobby rewarding.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
AJ6KZ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
"Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not."

I am new to the hobby but I have been suspecting this kind of behavior. At night I will call CQ on 40M many times only to hear static as a reply. Oddly enough, I can hit refresh on my QRZ page and note that people have been looking me up.

Of course, it is every individual's choice who to respond to, but you more experienced hams out there should take a moment to consider the impact you can have by answering some CQs even if they don't get you any "points." And especially if it is a beginner. If you want to promote the hobby then help make the hobby rewarding.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KD2HPQ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I meant ARRL, not ACBL.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

I'm not angry at all. As often happens on social media the conversation became a battle that escalated with every exchange. I'm probably 80% responsible, and I apologize. This is a great community, part of a great hobby. I value both on many levels. I'm currently involved in fulltime work, fulltime family, three major time-consuming hobbies, several more casual activities, and beginning next month #4 biggie (gardening) resumes. I've seen the good (chess, shooting), the bad (contract bridge), and the horrendous (ACBL) in terms of culture and organization. I'll admit I barely know enough about radio to pass the General test but I'm proud of the fact that the only answers I memorized were the ones about the bandplan and climbing towers. I love radio, I love hams, I go out of my way to meet, help, and interact with them. I'm pretty much doing everything on my own though, despite two clubs allegedly operating within a half hour's drive of here. Youth is the lifeblood of any hobby or any activity for that matter. Say what you will, make whatever excuses you like, but for whatever reason ARRL and YOU -- I'm speaking to you 50-year hams -- have let the weeds take over the garden, the dishes pile up in the sink, and the litter boxes go unchanged since the 1960s. You speak with awe of the days when you pulled your own wire from copper ingots but in reality you're stuck in a different era, one that is no longer either relevant or attractive. You're haughty, condescending, insular, and protect the Secrets because, let's face it, you did it the hard way and all I did was memorize (or so you say) a few answers. And this, friends, is what you get for sitting on your asses for 50 years hoping everything works out. I'll be clear after this :) Angelo DePalma KD2HPQ
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-03-01

For what it is worth: "When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag." To answer the first question, I answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ this morning. I usually listen before I transmit and can usually find a CQ to answer (and I don't care if it's a non-DX station). Only after I can't find a CQ, do I call CQ myself. It almost never happens that I am unable to have a QSO, either through answering a CQ or calling CQ. I am patient about it (not to say that I don't occasionally get frustrated with band conditions, etc.). To answer the second question, since I periodically operate QRP, I will frequently respond to the CQ of a difficult to copy station. I regard it as a point of pride that I can figure out a way to have a QSO with a weak signal station, especially since it may be a QRP operator, or just someone who can't get a real good antenna up because of HOA restrictions or for other reasons. There are many other hams I know that are like me. I'm not at all alone in my operating practices. I can't tell whether the hobby is dying or not. Just by my personal experience, for years I worried about the fact that almost every QSO I had was with someone older than myself. Now that I'm at the ripe old age of 67, I have noticed that frequently I am the older ham in the exchange, which is pleasant. KD2HPQ, all I can say now in response to you specifically is that just about everyone who has responded to you has tried to respond with well-intended suggestions (no one has tried to demean you that I see). Since the responders' experience is different from your own, it is natural for them to ask about your operating practices, to see if there's something unusual going on. Your response is to call their responses "idiotic" and demean them. I have to ask the question. What is it that you're so angry about? Your anger seems to exceed any provocation I see here in this thread, and indeed, in the hobby (I looked you up on QRZ.com, and you even mention the lack of responses to your CQ's on your QRZ page, so this is something pretty deep with you). That the hobby may be dying is a fair ground for debate and discussion. That doesn't justify demeaning those who disagree with you. Peace, and 73's,
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

N4KC: You obviously have a serious problem with English. 1) I never said I was giving up the hobby. You said I called CQ 12m during a contest. I did not, nor did I write that I did. My posts stand on their content, not on what you believe or wish. You're also just pulling idiotic conclusions out of your rear end regarding my operating style and equipment, of which you know ZERO. You're a classic post-modernist passive-aggressive bullshit artist, just making up stuff in hopes that something sticks. 2) The best thing that could happen to ham radio in the US is if ARRL would go belly up. They are the source of all the lame excuses, the advertising for more and more expensive equipment, and they do ZERO to retain entry-level members. Their silly fetish with contests and meaningless, worthless contest points has infected the hobby and fuels the sentiment that "If it ain't 1000W it ain't radio," which is why people don't respond to CQs. 3) I'm not even going to answer your idiotic question about how I call CQ. I will call CQ on Tuesday, March 3, 2020, the same way I call on Field Day. The only difference is that nobody is chasing meaningless participation trophies on Tuesday. I'm going to enjoy the hobby until I'm done with it or it's done with me. Once I'm dead I couldn't care less who's on or who isn't. All I know is that between July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020 I will have organized at least as many amateur radio operating events as the two clubs I belong to, COMBINED. I bring radios everywhere I go. I talk to kids, to cops, to mothers, to anyone who is curious, about what I'm doing on that park table in 100 degree heat. What did the typical self-styled "Elmers" who operate below 3.8 MHz do this year to promote the hobby? When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag. You and your fellow Torch-Bearers can continue to meet twice a month to discuss whether ranch or blue cheese goes better with the carrots and celery sticks at this year's holiday party. But please don't call into question the dedication to this hobby of individuals who must constantly deal with excuse mongerers and people like you whose feet have been stuck in cement for 50 years.
Reply to a comment by : N4KC on 2020-03-01

KD2HPQ: Not sure why I bother since you are convinced that our hobby is "on life support," but here goes. 1) Yes, you did say you were calling CQ on 12 meters, in your post on 2/29. And you were ready to give up the hobby because nobody came back to you, even though you could hear another signal or two on the band. And again I have to wonder if it might be propagation, your signal, your processing, your method of calling CQ, your voice, or your demeanor that kept a dozen others from jumping all over themselves to enjoy a conversation with you. 2) You maintain the ARRL has allowed technology to pass it by and is doing nothing at all to grow the hobby. A) Are you a member and get to see QST, the League email newsletters, or other League publications? B) Have you visited the ARRL web site at ARRL.org and seen just what the League is doing...for you, me and the hobby? You don't have to be a member to visit, you know. C) Have you considered writing an article or a book that might attract the very people you think would never migrate to our hobby because of those #$%&@ clubs, the *&%#@ ARRL, and all us OFs hanging onto AM, 75 meters, and nets while deliberately ignoring your CQs? D) If you are not a member of ARRL, have you considered joining, voting, volunteering for a job or running for director or vice-director so you can institute all that change you want to see? 3) I do agree with you on one point. If the only thing you want from amateur radio is to talk to people or join a "tribe," you certainly have plenty of other options. Options that don't require a government license, investment in a radio (though a cell phone costs more than a very nice rig), or putting up an antenna. Note that this "article" and most of your posts advocate just that...talking to people. Most of us enjoy doing just that, and for some it is still a thrill to work someone on the other side of the planet (or even in Cleveland on some bands and modes) or have a great QSO with an interesting and new human being you've never met before and in real time (try that on your cell phone), but the hobby offers so much more, which is exactly the point I made earlier. That is: 4) We are no longer limited to 5 HF bands, line-of-sight V/UHF, and two basic modes of operation as we were when I became licensed back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Baskin Robbins only had four flavors. Technology has opened up vast reaches of spectrum from just above dog-whistle to infrared. Those who might once have been listening for your CQ down in the noise on 12 meters could now be working a new country on FT-8 on that same band...because he can. Or competing in a challenging contest...because he likes the competition. Or constructing a new QRP kit to take to a summit or island...because he likes to. Sorry if you are offended that they ignore your plaintive CQ into the wilderness while they do all that other fun, interesting, challenging stuff. There are more hams now than ever before in history. I see no research that shows they are any more or less active than hams were in 1961. But they sure as heck are a lot more spread out, in mode, wavelength and preferred activity. I'll ask one more question. How do you call CQ? I know, you don't need some OF excuse-making, ham-radio-killing dinosaur telling you how to call CQ. But I have actually heard guys say, "CQ. This is KD2HPQ, listening." Then nothing for five minutes. Then the same short call again. And another five minutes of nothing. Maybe, if you are not doing it already, do it something like, "CQ CQ CQ. This is KD2HPQ Kilo Delta two Hotel Papa Quebec KD2HPQ in East Buddha, New York, looking for a nice QSO," then repeat. Do the same thing several times, listening for thirty seconds or so between calls. And if you really, really want to have QSOs, listen to an ongoing contact, make notes of the topics they are discussing, and if it is interesting to you, wait until they end the chat and call one or the other, if he obviously is not having to go QRT. My Elmer told me the best way to a great contact is to LISTEN. Before, during and after. The next guy who pops up may be even more interesting than you and your new best friend you just finished talking with. And some of the best ones I've ever had...ones I remember for a long, long time...came from either breaking into an ongoing QSO (yeah, some people don't want interlopers, but they can tell you so, nicely or not) or calling one of the participants after they have finished a contact that was interesting to me. By the way, one of my primary areas of interest, one I write and blog about, is rapid technological change and its effect on society, media, marketing and...by the way...amateur radio. I see no signs of any impending demise of our hobby. Instead, I see it continuing to grow, but in ways some cannot seem to imagine or...unfortunately...accept. Newspapers and magazines are dead. Network TV is about as full of life as 12 meters at night. The record industry is a nostalgia trip anymore. Broadcast radio, and especially AM, is fading fast. That's because these media either did not see what was coming or refused to address and benefit from it. Technological knowledge doubles every five years. Hang on! I decidedly do not see amateur radio dying. That's because many hams have not only accepted technological change but embraced it, enhancing our hobby and the experiences it offers. You not getting a reply to a CQ or encountering some curmudgeons in your club experiences do not portend the demise of the greatest hobby on earth. One that not only allows but enthusiastically invites people to come aboard and take advantage of, learn more about, and apply in a practical way that rapid technological change...or, if they want, they can still just chat, build tube gear, ragchew, talk about their prostates, chase DX, do contests...whatever yanks their cranks! I simply don't see playing chess against a computer as offering that much variety in experiences. Even though I enjoy playing chess (if not very well). And have, by the way, on the ham bands. (That was a lot of fun, and especially when someone would break in, overcome by curiosity, to see what the heck we were doing.) Maybe the bottom line is that we need to continue--as the League and many clubs are trying to do, believe it or not--to make as many people aware of the possibilities in our hobby, that like most things, it has changed, and mostly for the better. Amateur radio is not for everybody. But we absolutely need to be sure those who would embrace its many facets know about it, them, and us. That's all I'm trying to do. Hopefully, as a side benefit, it will result in a pile-up every time you utter a CQ. 73, Don N4KC www.donkeith.com www.n4kc.com
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KD2HPQ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I'm not angry at all. As often happens on social media the conversation became a battle that escalated with every exchange. I'm probably 80% responsible, and I apologize. This is a great community, part of a great hobby. I value both on many levels.

I'm currently involved in fulltime work, fulltime family, three major time-consuming hobbies, several more casual activities, and beginning next month #4 biggie (gardening) resumes. I've seen the good (chess, shooting), the bad (contract bridge), and the horrendous (ACBL) in terms of culture and organization.

I'll admit I barely know enough about radio to pass the General test but I'm proud of the fact that the only answers I memorized were the ones about the bandplan and climbing towers.

I love radio, I love hams, I go out of my way to meet, help, and interact with them. I'm pretty much doing everything on my own though, despite two clubs allegedly operating within a half hour's drive of here.

Youth is the lifeblood of any hobby or any activity for that matter. Say what you will, make whatever excuses you like, but for whatever reason ARRL and YOU -- I'm speaking to you 50-year hams -- have let the weeds take over the garden, the dishes pile up in the sink, and the litter boxes go unchanged since the 1960s. You speak with awe of the days when you pulled your own wire from copper ingots but in reality you're stuck in a different era, one that is no longer either relevant or attractive. You're haughty, condescending, insular, and protect the Secrets because, let's face it, you did it the hard way and all I did was memorize (or so you say) a few answers.

And this, friends, is what you get for sitting on your asses for 50 years hoping everything works out.

I'll be clear after this :)

Angelo DePalma
KD2HPQ
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-03-01

For what it is worth: "When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag." To answer the first question, I answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ this morning. I usually listen before I transmit and can usually find a CQ to answer (and I don't care if it's a non-DX station). Only after I can't find a CQ, do I call CQ myself. It almost never happens that I am unable to have a QSO, either through answering a CQ or calling CQ. I am patient about it (not to say that I don't occasionally get frustrated with band conditions, etc.). To answer the second question, since I periodically operate QRP, I will frequently respond to the CQ of a difficult to copy station. I regard it as a point of pride that I can figure out a way to have a QSO with a weak signal station, especially since it may be a QRP operator, or just someone who can't get a real good antenna up because of HOA restrictions or for other reasons. There are many other hams I know that are like me. I'm not at all alone in my operating practices. I can't tell whether the hobby is dying or not. Just by my personal experience, for years I worried about the fact that almost every QSO I had was with someone older than myself. Now that I'm at the ripe old age of 67, I have noticed that frequently I am the older ham in the exchange, which is pleasant. KD2HPQ, all I can say now in response to you specifically is that just about everyone who has responded to you has tried to respond with well-intended suggestions (no one has tried to demean you that I see). Since the responders' experience is different from your own, it is natural for them to ask about your operating practices, to see if there's something unusual going on. Your response is to call their responses "idiotic" and demean them. I have to ask the question. What is it that you're so angry about? Your anger seems to exceed any provocation I see here in this thread, and indeed, in the hobby (I looked you up on QRZ.com, and you even mention the lack of responses to your CQ's on your QRZ page, so this is something pretty deep with you). That the hobby may be dying is a fair ground for debate and discussion. That doesn't justify demeaning those who disagree with you. Peace, and 73's,
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

N4KC: You obviously have a serious problem with English. 1) I never said I was giving up the hobby. You said I called CQ 12m during a contest. I did not, nor did I write that I did. My posts stand on their content, not on what you believe or wish. You're also just pulling idiotic conclusions out of your rear end regarding my operating style and equipment, of which you know ZERO. You're a classic post-modernist passive-aggressive bullshit artist, just making up stuff in hopes that something sticks. 2) The best thing that could happen to ham radio in the US is if ARRL would go belly up. They are the source of all the lame excuses, the advertising for more and more expensive equipment, and they do ZERO to retain entry-level members. Their silly fetish with contests and meaningless, worthless contest points has infected the hobby and fuels the sentiment that "If it ain't 1000W it ain't radio," which is why people don't respond to CQs. 3) I'm not even going to answer your idiotic question about how I call CQ. I will call CQ on Tuesday, March 3, 2020, the same way I call on Field Day. The only difference is that nobody is chasing meaningless participation trophies on Tuesday. I'm going to enjoy the hobby until I'm done with it or it's done with me. Once I'm dead I couldn't care less who's on or who isn't. All I know is that between July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020 I will have organized at least as many amateur radio operating events as the two clubs I belong to, COMBINED. I bring radios everywhere I go. I talk to kids, to cops, to mothers, to anyone who is curious, about what I'm doing on that park table in 100 degree heat. What did the typical self-styled "Elmers" who operate below 3.8 MHz do this year to promote the hobby? When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag. You and your fellow Torch-Bearers can continue to meet twice a month to discuss whether ranch or blue cheese goes better with the carrots and celery sticks at this year's holiday party. But please don't call into question the dedication to this hobby of individuals who must constantly deal with excuse mongerers and people like you whose feet have been stuck in cement for 50 years.
Reply to a comment by : N4KC on 2020-03-01

KD2HPQ: Not sure why I bother since you are convinced that our hobby is "on life support," but here goes. 1) Yes, you did say you were calling CQ on 12 meters, in your post on 2/29. And you were ready to give up the hobby because nobody came back to you, even though you could hear another signal or two on the band. And again I have to wonder if it might be propagation, your signal, your processing, your method of calling CQ, your voice, or your demeanor that kept a dozen others from jumping all over themselves to enjoy a conversation with you. 2) You maintain the ARRL has allowed technology to pass it by and is doing nothing at all to grow the hobby. A) Are you a member and get to see QST, the League email newsletters, or other League publications? B) Have you visited the ARRL web site at ARRL.org and seen just what the League is doing...for you, me and the hobby? You don't have to be a member to visit, you know. C) Have you considered writing an article or a book that might attract the very people you think would never migrate to our hobby because of those #$%&@ clubs, the *&%#@ ARRL, and all us OFs hanging onto AM, 75 meters, and nets while deliberately ignoring your CQs? D) If you are not a member of ARRL, have you considered joining, voting, volunteering for a job or running for director or vice-director so you can institute all that change you want to see? 3) I do agree with you on one point. If the only thing you want from amateur radio is to talk to people or join a "tribe," you certainly have plenty of other options. Options that don't require a government license, investment in a radio (though a cell phone costs more than a very nice rig), or putting up an antenna. Note that this "article" and most of your posts advocate just that...talking to people. Most of us enjoy doing just that, and for some it is still a thrill to work someone on the other side of the planet (or even in Cleveland on some bands and modes) or have a great QSO with an interesting and new human being you've never met before and in real time (try that on your cell phone), but the hobby offers so much more, which is exactly the point I made earlier. That is: 4) We are no longer limited to 5 HF bands, line-of-sight V/UHF, and two basic modes of operation as we were when I became licensed back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Baskin Robbins only had four flavors. Technology has opened up vast reaches of spectrum from just above dog-whistle to infrared. Those who might once have been listening for your CQ down in the noise on 12 meters could now be working a new country on FT-8 on that same band...because he can. Or competing in a challenging contest...because he likes the competition. Or constructing a new QRP kit to take to a summit or island...because he likes to. Sorry if you are offended that they ignore your plaintive CQ into the wilderness while they do all that other fun, interesting, challenging stuff. There are more hams now than ever before in history. I see no research that shows they are any more or less active than hams were in 1961. But they sure as heck are a lot more spread out, in mode, wavelength and preferred activity. I'll ask one more question. How do you call CQ? I know, you don't need some OF excuse-making, ham-radio-killing dinosaur telling you how to call CQ. But I have actually heard guys say, "CQ. This is KD2HPQ, listening." Then nothing for five minutes. Then the same short call again. And another five minutes of nothing. Maybe, if you are not doing it already, do it something like, "CQ CQ CQ. This is KD2HPQ Kilo Delta two Hotel Papa Quebec KD2HPQ in East Buddha, New York, looking for a nice QSO," then repeat. Do the same thing several times, listening for thirty seconds or so between calls. And if you really, really want to have QSOs, listen to an ongoing contact, make notes of the topics they are discussing, and if it is interesting to you, wait until they end the chat and call one or the other, if he obviously is not having to go QRT. My Elmer told me the best way to a great contact is to LISTEN. Before, during and after. The next guy who pops up may be even more interesting than you and your new best friend you just finished talking with. And some of the best ones I've ever had...ones I remember for a long, long time...came from either breaking into an ongoing QSO (yeah, some people don't want interlopers, but they can tell you so, nicely or not) or calling one of the participants after they have finished a contact that was interesting to me. By the way, one of my primary areas of interest, one I write and blog about, is rapid technological change and its effect on society, media, marketing and...by the way...amateur radio. I see no signs of any impending demise of our hobby. Instead, I see it continuing to grow, but in ways some cannot seem to imagine or...unfortunately...accept. Newspapers and magazines are dead. Network TV is about as full of life as 12 meters at night. The record industry is a nostalgia trip anymore. Broadcast radio, and especially AM, is fading fast. That's because these media either did not see what was coming or refused to address and benefit from it. Technological knowledge doubles every five years. Hang on! I decidedly do not see amateur radio dying. That's because many hams have not only accepted technological change but embraced it, enhancing our hobby and the experiences it offers. You not getting a reply to a CQ or encountering some curmudgeons in your club experiences do not portend the demise of the greatest hobby on earth. One that not only allows but enthusiastically invites people to come aboard and take advantage of, learn more about, and apply in a practical way that rapid technological change...or, if they want, they can still just chat, build tube gear, ragchew, talk about their prostates, chase DX, do contests...whatever yanks their cranks! I simply don't see playing chess against a computer as offering that much variety in experiences. Even though I enjoy playing chess (if not very well). And have, by the way, on the ham bands. (That was a lot of fun, and especially when someone would break in, overcome by curiosity, to see what the heck we were doing.) Maybe the bottom line is that we need to continue--as the League and many clubs are trying to do, believe it or not--to make as many people aware of the possibilities in our hobby, that like most things, it has changed, and mostly for the better. Amateur radio is not for everybody. But we absolutely need to be sure those who would embrace its many facets know about it, them, and us. That's all I'm trying to do. Hopefully, as a side benefit, it will result in a pile-up every time you utter a CQ. 73, Don N4KC www.donkeith.com www.n4kc.com
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KF0QS2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
For what it is worth:

"When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag."

To answer the first question, I answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ this morning. I usually listen before I transmit and can usually find a CQ to answer (and I don't care if it's a non-DX station). Only after I can't find a CQ, do I call CQ myself. It almost never happens that I am unable to have a QSO, either through answering a CQ or calling CQ. I am patient about it (not to say that I don't occasionally get frustrated with band conditions, etc.).

To answer the second question, since I periodically operate QRP, I will frequently respond to the CQ of a difficult to copy station. I regard it as a point of pride that I can figure out a way to have a QSO with a weak signal station, especially since it may be a QRP operator, or just someone who can't get a real good antenna up because of HOA restrictions or for other reasons.

There are many other hams I know that are like me. I'm not at all alone in my operating practices.

I can't tell whether the hobby is dying or not. Just by my personal experience, for years I worried about the fact that almost every QSO I had was with someone older than myself. Now that I'm at the ripe old age of 67, I have noticed that frequently I am the older ham in the exchange, which is pleasant.

KD2HPQ, all I can say now in response to you specifically is that just about everyone who has responded to you has tried to respond with well-intended suggestions (no one has tried to demean you that I see). Since the responders' experience is different from your own, it is natural for them to ask about your operating practices, to see if there's something unusual going on. Your response is to call their responses "idiotic" and demean them.

I have to ask the question. What is it that you're so angry about? Your anger seems to exceed any provocation I see here in this thread, and indeed, in the hobby (I looked you up on QRZ.com, and you even mention the lack of responses to your CQ's on your QRZ page, so this is something pretty deep with you).

That the hobby may be dying is a fair ground for debate and discussion. That doesn't justify demeaning those who disagree with you.

Peace, and 73's,
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

N4KC: You obviously have a serious problem with English. 1) I never said I was giving up the hobby. You said I called CQ 12m during a contest. I did not, nor did I write that I did. My posts stand on their content, not on what you believe or wish. You're also just pulling idiotic conclusions out of your rear end regarding my operating style and equipment, of which you know ZERO. You're a classic post-modernist passive-aggressive bullshit artist, just making up stuff in hopes that something sticks. 2) The best thing that could happen to ham radio in the US is if ARRL would go belly up. They are the source of all the lame excuses, the advertising for more and more expensive equipment, and they do ZERO to retain entry-level members. Their silly fetish with contests and meaningless, worthless contest points has infected the hobby and fuels the sentiment that "If it ain't 1000W it ain't radio," which is why people don't respond to CQs. 3) I'm not even going to answer your idiotic question about how I call CQ. I will call CQ on Tuesday, March 3, 2020, the same way I call on Field Day. The only difference is that nobody is chasing meaningless participation trophies on Tuesday. I'm going to enjoy the hobby until I'm done with it or it's done with me. Once I'm dead I couldn't care less who's on or who isn't. All I know is that between July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020 I will have organized at least as many amateur radio operating events as the two clubs I belong to, COMBINED. I bring radios everywhere I go. I talk to kids, to cops, to mothers, to anyone who is curious, about what I'm doing on that park table in 100 degree heat. What did the typical self-styled "Elmers" who operate below 3.8 MHz do this year to promote the hobby? When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag. You and your fellow Torch-Bearers can continue to meet twice a month to discuss whether ranch or blue cheese goes better with the carrots and celery sticks at this year's holiday party. But please don't call into question the dedication to this hobby of individuals who must constantly deal with excuse mongerers and people like you whose feet have been stuck in cement for 50 years.
Reply to a comment by : N4KC on 2020-03-01

KD2HPQ: Not sure why I bother since you are convinced that our hobby is "on life support," but here goes. 1) Yes, you did say you were calling CQ on 12 meters, in your post on 2/29. And you were ready to give up the hobby because nobody came back to you, even though you could hear another signal or two on the band. And again I have to wonder if it might be propagation, your signal, your processing, your method of calling CQ, your voice, or your demeanor that kept a dozen others from jumping all over themselves to enjoy a conversation with you. 2) You maintain the ARRL has allowed technology to pass it by and is doing nothing at all to grow the hobby. A) Are you a member and get to see QST, the League email newsletters, or other League publications? B) Have you visited the ARRL web site at ARRL.org and seen just what the League is doing...for you, me and the hobby? You don't have to be a member to visit, you know. C) Have you considered writing an article or a book that might attract the very people you think would never migrate to our hobby because of those #$%&@ clubs, the *&%#@ ARRL, and all us OFs hanging onto AM, 75 meters, and nets while deliberately ignoring your CQs? D) If you are not a member of ARRL, have you considered joining, voting, volunteering for a job or running for director or vice-director so you can institute all that change you want to see? 3) I do agree with you on one point. If the only thing you want from amateur radio is to talk to people or join a "tribe," you certainly have plenty of other options. Options that don't require a government license, investment in a radio (though a cell phone costs more than a very nice rig), or putting up an antenna. Note that this "article" and most of your posts advocate just that...talking to people. Most of us enjoy doing just that, and for some it is still a thrill to work someone on the other side of the planet (or even in Cleveland on some bands and modes) or have a great QSO with an interesting and new human being you've never met before and in real time (try that on your cell phone), but the hobby offers so much more, which is exactly the point I made earlier. That is: 4) We are no longer limited to 5 HF bands, line-of-sight V/UHF, and two basic modes of operation as we were when I became licensed back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Baskin Robbins only had four flavors. Technology has opened up vast reaches of spectrum from just above dog-whistle to infrared. Those who might once have been listening for your CQ down in the noise on 12 meters could now be working a new country on FT-8 on that same band...because he can. Or competing in a challenging contest...because he likes the competition. Or constructing a new QRP kit to take to a summit or island...because he likes to. Sorry if you are offended that they ignore your plaintive CQ into the wilderness while they do all that other fun, interesting, challenging stuff. There are more hams now than ever before in history. I see no research that shows they are any more or less active than hams were in 1961. But they sure as heck are a lot more spread out, in mode, wavelength and preferred activity. I'll ask one more question. How do you call CQ? I know, you don't need some OF excuse-making, ham-radio-killing dinosaur telling you how to call CQ. But I have actually heard guys say, "CQ. This is KD2HPQ, listening." Then nothing for five minutes. Then the same short call again. And another five minutes of nothing. Maybe, if you are not doing it already, do it something like, "CQ CQ CQ. This is KD2HPQ Kilo Delta two Hotel Papa Quebec KD2HPQ in East Buddha, New York, looking for a nice QSO," then repeat. Do the same thing several times, listening for thirty seconds or so between calls. And if you really, really want to have QSOs, listen to an ongoing contact, make notes of the topics they are discussing, and if it is interesting to you, wait until they end the chat and call one or the other, if he obviously is not having to go QRT. My Elmer told me the best way to a great contact is to LISTEN. Before, during and after. The next guy who pops up may be even more interesting than you and your new best friend you just finished talking with. And some of the best ones I've ever had...ones I remember for a long, long time...came from either breaking into an ongoing QSO (yeah, some people don't want interlopers, but they can tell you so, nicely or not) or calling one of the participants after they have finished a contact that was interesting to me. By the way, one of my primary areas of interest, one I write and blog about, is rapid technological change and its effect on society, media, marketing and...by the way...amateur radio. I see no signs of any impending demise of our hobby. Instead, I see it continuing to grow, but in ways some cannot seem to imagine or...unfortunately...accept. Newspapers and magazines are dead. Network TV is about as full of life as 12 meters at night. The record industry is a nostalgia trip anymore. Broadcast radio, and especially AM, is fading fast. That's because these media either did not see what was coming or refused to address and benefit from it. Technological knowledge doubles every five years. Hang on! I decidedly do not see amateur radio dying. That's because many hams have not only accepted technological change but embraced it, enhancing our hobby and the experiences it offers. You not getting a reply to a CQ or encountering some curmudgeons in your club experiences do not portend the demise of the greatest hobby on earth. One that not only allows but enthusiastically invites people to come aboard and take advantage of, learn more about, and apply in a practical way that rapid technological change...or, if they want, they can still just chat, build tube gear, ragchew, talk about their prostates, chase DX, do contests...whatever yanks their cranks! I simply don't see playing chess against a computer as offering that much variety in experiences. Even though I enjoy playing chess (if not very well). And have, by the way, on the ham bands. (That was a lot of fun, and especially when someone would break in, overcome by curiosity, to see what the heck we were doing.) Maybe the bottom line is that we need to continue--as the League and many clubs are trying to do, believe it or not--to make as many people aware of the possibilities in our hobby, that like most things, it has changed, and mostly for the better. Amateur radio is not for everybody. But we absolutely need to be sure those who would embrace its many facets know about it, them, and us. That's all I'm trying to do. Hopefully, as a side benefit, it will result in a pile-up every time you utter a CQ. 73, Don N4KC www.donkeith.com www.n4kc.com
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KD2HPQ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
N4KC: You obviously have a serious problem with English.

1) I never said I was giving up the hobby. You said I called CQ 12m during a contest. I did not, nor did I write that I did. My posts stand on their content, not on what you believe or wish. You're also just pulling idiotic conclusions out of your rear end regarding my operating style and equipment, of which you know ZERO. You're a classic post-modernist passive-aggressive bullshit artist, just making up stuff in hopes that something sticks.
2) The best thing that could happen to ham radio in the US is if ARRL would go belly up. They are the source of all the lame excuses, the advertising for more and more expensive equipment, and they do ZERO to retain entry-level members. Their silly fetish with contests and meaningless, worthless contest points has infected the hobby and fuels the sentiment that "If it ain't 1000W it ain't radio," which is why people don't respond to CQs.
3) I'm not even going to answer your idiotic question about how I call CQ. I will call CQ on Tuesday, March 3, 2020, the same way I call on Field Day. The only difference is that nobody is chasing meaningless participation trophies on Tuesday.

I'm going to enjoy the hobby until I'm done with it or it's done with me. Once I'm dead I couldn't care less who's on or who isn't. All I know is that between July 1, 2019 and July 1, 2020 I will have organized at least as many amateur radio operating events as the two clubs I belong to, COMBINED. I bring radios everywhere I go. I talk to kids, to cops, to mothers, to anyone who is curious, about what I'm doing on that park table in 100 degree heat.

What did the typical self-styled "Elmers" who operate below 3.8 MHz do this year to promote the hobby? When was the last time one of you answered a non-contest, non-DX CQ? When was the last time you tried to work a stateside station barely above the noise, just for the pleasure of meeting another ham and not to get your name misspelled in the ARRL rag.

You and your fellow Torch-Bearers can continue to meet twice a month to discuss whether ranch or blue cheese goes better with the carrots and celery sticks at this year's holiday party. But please don't call into question the dedication to this hobby of individuals who must constantly deal with excuse mongerers and people like you whose feet have been stuck in cement for 50 years.
Reply to a comment by : N4KC on 2020-03-01

KD2HPQ: Not sure why I bother since you are convinced that our hobby is "on life support," but here goes. 1) Yes, you did say you were calling CQ on 12 meters, in your post on 2/29. And you were ready to give up the hobby because nobody came back to you, even though you could hear another signal or two on the band. And again I have to wonder if it might be propagation, your signal, your processing, your method of calling CQ, your voice, or your demeanor that kept a dozen others from jumping all over themselves to enjoy a conversation with you. 2) You maintain the ARRL has allowed technology to pass it by and is doing nothing at all to grow the hobby. A) Are you a member and get to see QST, the League email newsletters, or other League publications? B) Have you visited the ARRL web site at ARRL.org and seen just what the League is doing...for you, me and the hobby? You don't have to be a member to visit, you know. C) Have you considered writing an article or a book that might attract the very people you think would never migrate to our hobby because of those #$%&@ clubs, the *&%#@ ARRL, and all us OFs hanging onto AM, 75 meters, and nets while deliberately ignoring your CQs? D) If you are not a member of ARRL, have you considered joining, voting, volunteering for a job or running for director or vice-director so you can institute all that change you want to see? 3) I do agree with you on one point. If the only thing you want from amateur radio is to talk to people or join a "tribe," you certainly have plenty of other options. Options that don't require a government license, investment in a radio (though a cell phone costs more than a very nice rig), or putting up an antenna. Note that this "article" and most of your posts advocate just that...talking to people. Most of us enjoy doing just that, and for some it is still a thrill to work someone on the other side of the planet (or even in Cleveland on some bands and modes) or have a great QSO with an interesting and new human being you've never met before and in real time (try that on your cell phone), but the hobby offers so much more, which is exactly the point I made earlier. That is: 4) We are no longer limited to 5 HF bands, line-of-sight V/UHF, and two basic modes of operation as we were when I became licensed back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Baskin Robbins only had four flavors. Technology has opened up vast reaches of spectrum from just above dog-whistle to infrared. Those who might once have been listening for your CQ down in the noise on 12 meters could now be working a new country on FT-8 on that same band...because he can. Or competing in a challenging contest...because he likes the competition. Or constructing a new QRP kit to take to a summit or island...because he likes to. Sorry if you are offended that they ignore your plaintive CQ into the wilderness while they do all that other fun, interesting, challenging stuff. There are more hams now than ever before in history. I see no research that shows they are any more or less active than hams were in 1961. But they sure as heck are a lot more spread out, in mode, wavelength and preferred activity. I'll ask one more question. How do you call CQ? I know, you don't need some OF excuse-making, ham-radio-killing dinosaur telling you how to call CQ. But I have actually heard guys say, "CQ. This is KD2HPQ, listening." Then nothing for five minutes. Then the same short call again. And another five minutes of nothing. Maybe, if you are not doing it already, do it something like, "CQ CQ CQ. This is KD2HPQ Kilo Delta two Hotel Papa Quebec KD2HPQ in East Buddha, New York, looking for a nice QSO," then repeat. Do the same thing several times, listening for thirty seconds or so between calls. And if you really, really want to have QSOs, listen to an ongoing contact, make notes of the topics they are discussing, and if it is interesting to you, wait until they end the chat and call one or the other, if he obviously is not having to go QRT. My Elmer told me the best way to a great contact is to LISTEN. Before, during and after. The next guy who pops up may be even more interesting than you and your new best friend you just finished talking with. And some of the best ones I've ever had...ones I remember for a long, long time...came from either breaking into an ongoing QSO (yeah, some people don't want interlopers, but they can tell you so, nicely or not) or calling one of the participants after they have finished a contact that was interesting to me. By the way, one of my primary areas of interest, one I write and blog about, is rapid technological change and its effect on society, media, marketing and...by the way...amateur radio. I see no signs of any impending demise of our hobby. Instead, I see it continuing to grow, but in ways some cannot seem to imagine or...unfortunately...accept. Newspapers and magazines are dead. Network TV is about as full of life as 12 meters at night. The record industry is a nostalgia trip anymore. Broadcast radio, and especially AM, is fading fast. That's because these media either did not see what was coming or refused to address and benefit from it. Technological knowledge doubles every five years. Hang on! I decidedly do not see amateur radio dying. That's because many hams have not only accepted technological change but embraced it, enhancing our hobby and the experiences it offers. You not getting a reply to a CQ or encountering some curmudgeons in your club experiences do not portend the demise of the greatest hobby on earth. One that not only allows but enthusiastically invites people to come aboard and take advantage of, learn more about, and apply in a practical way that rapid technological change...or, if they want, they can still just chat, build tube gear, ragchew, talk about their prostates, chase DX, do contests...whatever yanks their cranks! I simply don't see playing chess against a computer as offering that much variety in experiences. Even though I enjoy playing chess (if not very well). And have, by the way, on the ham bands. (That was a lot of fun, and especially when someone would break in, overcome by curiosity, to see what the heck we were doing.) Maybe the bottom line is that we need to continue--as the League and many clubs are trying to do, believe it or not--to make as many people aware of the possibilities in our hobby, that like most things, it has changed, and mostly for the better. Amateur radio is not for everybody. But we absolutely need to be sure those who would embrace its many facets know about it, them, and us. That's all I'm trying to do. Hopefully, as a side benefit, it will result in a pile-up every time you utter a CQ. 73, Don N4KC www.donkeith.com www.n4kc.com
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
N4KC2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?

KD2HPQ:

Not sure why I bother since you are convinced that our hobby is "on life support," but here goes.

1) Yes, you did say you were calling CQ on 12 meters, in your post on 2/29. And you were ready to give up the hobby because nobody came back to you, even though you could hear another signal or two on the band. And again I have to wonder if it might be propagation, your signal, your processing, your method of calling CQ, your voice, or your demeanor that kept a dozen others from jumping all over themselves to enjoy a conversation with you.

2) You maintain the ARRL has allowed technology to pass it by and is doing nothing at all to grow the hobby. A) Are you a member and get to see QST, the League email newsletters, or other League publications? B) Have you visited the ARRL web site at ARRL.org and seen just what the League is doing...for you, me and the hobby? You don't have to be a member to visit, you know. C) Have you considered writing an article or a book that might attract the very people you think would never migrate to our hobby because of those #$%&@ clubs, the *&%#@ ARRL, and all us OFs hanging onto AM, 75 meters, and nets while deliberately ignoring your CQs? D) If you are not a member of ARRL, have you considered joining, voting, volunteering for a job or running for director or vice-director so you can institute all that change you want to see?

3) I do agree with you on one point. If the only thing you want from amateur radio is to talk to people or join a "tribe," you certainly have plenty of other options. Options that don't require a government license, investment in a radio (though a cell phone costs more than a very nice rig), or putting up an antenna. Note that this "article" and most of your posts advocate just that...talking to people. Most of us enjoy doing just that, and for some it is still a thrill to work someone on the other side of the planet (or even in Cleveland on some bands and modes) or have a great QSO with an interesting and new human being you've never met before and in real time (try that on your cell phone), but the hobby offers so much more, which is exactly the point I made earlier. That is:

4) We are no longer limited to 5 HF bands, line-of-sight V/UHF, and two basic modes of operation as we were when I became licensed back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Baskin Robbins only had four flavors. Technology has opened up vast reaches of spectrum from just above dog-whistle to infrared. Those who might once have been listening for your CQ down in the noise on 12 meters could now be working a new country on FT-8 on that same band...because he can. Or competing in a challenging contest...because he likes the competition. Or constructing a new QRP kit to take to a summit or island...because he likes to. Sorry if you are offended that they ignore your plaintive CQ into the wilderness while they do all that other fun, interesting, challenging stuff. There are more hams now than ever before in history. I see no research that shows they are any more or less active than hams were in 1961. But they sure as heck are a lot more spread out, in mode, wavelength and preferred activity.

I'll ask one more question. How do you call CQ? I know, you don't need some OF excuse-making, ham-radio-killing dinosaur telling you how to call CQ. But I have actually heard guys say, "CQ. This is KD2HPQ, listening." Then nothing for five minutes. Then the same short call again. And another five minutes of nothing.

Maybe, if you are not doing it already, do it something like, "CQ CQ CQ. This is KD2HPQ Kilo Delta two Hotel Papa Quebec KD2HPQ in East Buddha, New York, looking for a nice QSO," then repeat. Do the same thing several times, listening for thirty seconds or so between calls.

And if you really, really want to have QSOs, listen to an ongoing contact, make notes of the topics they are discussing, and if it is interesting to you, wait until they end the chat and call one or the other, if he obviously is not having to go QRT. My Elmer told me the best way to a great contact is to LISTEN. Before, during and after. The next guy who pops up may be even more interesting than you and your new best friend you just finished talking with. And some of the best ones I've ever had...ones I remember for a long, long time...came from either breaking into an ongoing QSO (yeah, some people don't want interlopers, but they can tell you so, nicely or not) or calling one of the participants after they have finished a contact that was interesting to me.

By the way, one of my primary areas of interest, one I write and blog about, is rapid technological change and its effect on society, media, marketing and...by the way...amateur radio. I see no signs of any impending demise of our hobby. Instead, I see it continuing to grow, but in ways some cannot seem to imagine or...unfortunately...accept. Newspapers and magazines are dead. Network TV is about as full of life as 12 meters at night. The record industry is a nostalgia trip anymore. Broadcast radio, and especially AM, is fading fast. That's because these media either did not see what was coming or refused to address and benefit from it.

Technological knowledge doubles every five years. Hang on!

I decidedly do not see amateur radio dying. That's because many hams have not only accepted technological change but embraced it, enhancing our hobby and the experiences it offers. You not getting a reply to a CQ or encountering some curmudgeons in your club experiences do not portend the demise of the greatest hobby on earth.

One that not only allows but enthusiastically invites people to come aboard and take advantage of, learn more about, and apply in a practical way that rapid technological change...or, if they want, they can still just chat, build tube gear, ragchew, talk about their prostates, chase DX, do contests...whatever yanks their cranks!

I simply don't see playing chess against a computer as offering that much variety in experiences. Even though I enjoy playing chess (if not very well). And have, by the way, on the ham bands. (That was a lot of fun, and especially when someone would break in, overcome by curiosity, to see what the heck we were doing.)

Maybe the bottom line is that we need to continue--as the League and many clubs are trying to do, believe it or not--to make as many people aware of the possibilities in our hobby, that like most things, it has changed, and mostly for the better. Amateur radio is not for everybody. But we absolutely need to be sure those who would embrace its many facets know about it, them, and us. That's all I'm trying to do.

Hopefully, as a side benefit, it will result in a pile-up every time you utter a CQ.

73,

Don N4KC
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.com

Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-03-01

WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass. I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station. Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not. I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses. Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in. Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.
Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
KD2HPQ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
WD8DUP: He answered because you were 12000 miles away and it was an awesome contact. Bet you 100 other people heard you or saw the blip on their panadapter, heard you were in the next state, and decided to pass.

I remember being on a hike once, calling on 146520 until I went hoarse. NADA. Suddenly N1ACL responded. Lars was flying over Burlington, VT, about 300 miles away and he sounded like he was standing next to me. Within 30 seconds there was a wicked pileup of local hams (I could hear them!) lining up to speak with an aeronautic mobile station.

Are you trying to say all 5-10-15 whatever guys turned their radios on at the very moment I made contact with N1ACL? Of course not.

I just got off the radio, calling CQ on 20m and 17m, both of which are very active this morning. Got a 5-8 report from Rome, a 5-9 from Slovakia, and a 5-9+ from Texas, all within 30 minutes. My nominal 100w signal is getting out there. But still, after about 15 minutes of calling CQ on 4-5 different frequencies, no responses.

Mere participation is the least one can expect from a hobby. Imagine going to your bowling league and instead of bowling everyone wants to watch, or discuss the shoe rental situation or how the lanes are cleaned. That's the terminal stage this hobby finds itself in. People buy more and more crap they can't afford to keep it on their shelves and brag about it on 75m AM, if they ever get on HF. If they ever even take it out of the box and plug it in.

Ham radio is on life support. Blame anybody you like, blame the sun, the planets, cell phones, Putin, whatever, but for the real culprit I suggest you Keepers of the Faith look into the closest mirror.

Reply to a comment by : WD8DUP on 2020-03-01

Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk. DA1VF/WD8DUP
WD8DUP2020-03-01
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Lotta good ideas about where HF, etc., is and where it may be going. But I have a small problem with calling a band, "dead". I was driving to Richmond, VA, late in the evening and decided to give a call on an otherwise "dead" band, 17 Meters. To my surprise, I received a response from a ham in New Zealand. We chatted about 20 minutes or so before he faded out. So just because you don't hear anyone on a band doesn't necessarily mean it's dead. If everyone is just listening, noone will talk.

DA1VF/WD8DUP
KD2HPQ2020-03-01
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Sorry to hog this conversation but you guys keep saying things that don't make sense.

G8FXC: "Cell phones" have done no more to kill amateur radio than the domestication of horses did to end walking, or what the invention of cars did to horse racing or track and field. This is another lame excuse that, well, excuses the ham establishment from letting this hobby go to hell.

Again, to use a chess analogy the computer Deep Blue beat a reigning world chess champion 24 years ago, in 1996. Freeware chess programs that are much stronger than any human, operating on a $20 tablet, have not brought about an aging of the chess playing population or driven that sport into the ground.

The reason is the US Chess Federation, unlike ARRL, has adapted to and embraced technology. Interest in computer-related chess (and there are many aspects of that angle of the hobby) has blossomed, and with it a renewal of interest in slow, classical chess. Fully half of the opponents we faced at the team tournament 2 weeks ago were in high school or grammar school. And believe you me, those kids belonged in an adult tournament. It wasn't touchy-feely here's the microphone, say "KD2HPQ".

Excuses, excuses, excuses is all I ever hear. It's the Internet, it's the solar cycle, it's the conversion of the Estonians to Christianity in the 13th century.

The problem, dear hams, is not in our solar cycles, it's in ourselves.
Reply to a comment by : G8FXC on 2020-03-01

While clubs certainly have not been doing much to help themselves, I don't think they can be blamed for the steady demise of amateur radio. Around here (Britain), the number of hams that are club members has never been very high. In my youth, I was an active member of a contesting club - we met a few times each year to plan things like Field Day but that was about it. Now, I've reached the age where the idea of sitting under a tent half way up a mountain for two days calling CQ while being choked by fumes from the generator has lost its appeal and I sit at home, or on our boat, calling CQ instead. Will amateur radio die? Almost certainly - the question really is how long it will take. Its death will be slower in some countries than others, but I think modern technology including mobile phones and the internet make it pretty inevitable. As I've posted here before, I got into amateur radio nearly fifty years ago as a teenager. There was no internet or mobile phones and there was a fantastic buzz in being able to key up the rig and talk to people on the other side of the world. I expected my son to also get interested, but he was simply unable to understand the excitement - he carried a full-duplex mobile transceiver in his pocket that could connect him to people all over the world in seconds - he called it a mobile phone. He also joined nets to chat to people all over the world - he knew them as Facebook and Instagram. Amateur radio will carry on for quite a few years yet - but the number of youngsters entering the hobby is dropping and it needs a critical mass of active amateurs to attract new members. The decline will be slower in some countries than others - you guys in the USA take Emergency Comms far more seriously than we do in Europe and the prospect of one-to-one comms is bound to be attractive to your body of "Preppers" and others that are suspicious of government and officialdom.
G8FXC2020-03-01
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
While clubs certainly have not been doing much to help themselves, I don't think they can be blamed for the steady demise of amateur radio. Around here (Britain), the number of hams that are club members has never been very high. In my youth, I was an active member of a contesting club - we met a few times each year to plan things like Field Day but that was about it. Now, I've reached the age where the idea of sitting under a tent half way up a mountain for two days calling CQ while being choked by fumes from the generator has lost its appeal and I sit at home, or on our boat, calling CQ instead.

Will amateur radio die? Almost certainly - the question really is how long it will take. Its death will be slower in some countries than others, but I think modern technology including mobile phones and the internet make it pretty inevitable. As I've posted here before, I got into amateur radio nearly fifty years ago as a teenager. There was no internet or mobile phones and there was a fantastic buzz in being able to key up the rig and talk to people on the other side of the world. I expected my son to also get interested, but he was simply unable to understand the excitement - he carried a full-duplex mobile transceiver in his pocket that could connect him to people all over the world in seconds - he called it a mobile phone. He also joined nets to chat to people all over the world - he knew them as Facebook and Instagram.

Amateur radio will carry on for quite a few years yet - but the number of youngsters entering the hobby is dropping and it needs a critical mass of active amateurs to attract new members. The decline will be slower in some countries than others - you guys in the USA take Emergency Comms far more seriously than we do in Europe and the prospect of one-to-one comms is bound to be attractive to your body of "Preppers" and others that are suspicious of government and officialdom.
KD2HPQ2020-03-01
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
N4KC: Thanks for the recommendations on which bands are active during various times of the day and which periods of the solar cycle. I promise, next time I see three ongoing QSOs on 12m I will not call CQ. Also, I never said I called CQ contest on 12m. Shame that these discussions often devolve into this kind of unpleasantness.

KF0QS: Your heart is in the right place and you are a solid member of the amateur radio community. I wonder, though, who will replace you when you're unable or uninterested. I look around my club(s) and the only people who know anything are in their 70s or 80s. Who will be the next -- for want of a better expression -- OLD FART with 50 years of experience, solving the repeater problems, setting up the equipment and network on field day, delivering an occasional lecture on 2m sideband, etc.

I also became interested in radio in 1968 at Xavier HS in NYC. Jim Curtis, SJ, K2RLW was the club moderator. Unfortunately I kept putting it off. I never went into electronics or physics, never operated radios in the military (never served). I didn't know a dipole from a maypole until I was 60 years old. I'll never put in the time to learn this field like you old timers did.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, but really guys look around you. You're all logical, scientific types. What about this hobby in the United States suggests to you that it will be around in 25 years?

I bring up topics like this all the time and I feel like a persona non grata at club meetings.

The pushback and denial I get is understandable, as the sorry state of ham radio is basically the fault of the old guard. It was you old timers, sorry to say who, when you finally did notice something was wrong with being 63 and the youngest guy in the club, you did nothing. You are the ones who insist that holding 24 meetings per year to discuss paper napkins, the holiday party menu, what color to paint the repeater, etc. but just one event dedicated to operating radio is normal for a RADIO club.

And don't blame the Internet, cell phones, or free porn for distracting our youth from activities that are "difficult" or require brain activity. I just got back from a YUGE chess team tournament where half of the participants were under age 23 or so. At age 65 I was definitely in the top 15% in terms of age. At a radio event (or bridge tournament) it's safe to say I'd be in the lower 35% in terms of age.
N4KC2020-02-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
KD2HPQ:

I take it back. If your on-air persona is the same as it is here in the forum, I probably wouldn't respond to your CQ after all.

Life's too short and there are plenty of positive, interesting people with whom to chat.

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com


KF0QS2020-02-29
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
KD2HPQ:

I guess you got under my skin because I have to respond to your attempt to stereotype me.

For the record, I have been licensed since 1968 (so maybe I am an OF). I am exclusively a CW (I have over 200 countries confirmed) and satellite operator (I have my VUCC for satellite operations), and have had maybe 1 QSO on 75 meters in the last 3 decades. I have built all of my station's HF gear (admittedly, from kits), and have built a number of QRP rigs, all of which work and which I operate with periodically. I have operated portable with some of the QRP rigs, including in Field Day. I have also completely homebrewed a couple of pieces of test equipment, and enjoy tinkering around with Arduinos and other such stuff. I'm retired but I wasn't an engineer or anything that would have given me a leg-up on learning how to do any of this. My yagi is stuck at 24 feet due to HOA restrictions, as well as my HF dipoles. I frequently engage in lengthy ragchews on CW (I have had several in the last few months that exceeded 90 minutes, numerous that lasted about an hour, and countless that go to at least 30 minutes).

I just simply kept at it, until I got where I wanted to be on station effectiveness and operator skill. You can do it too. Just keep at it. Good luck!
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-02-29

KD2HPQ: My point was that, before you blame the whole hobby for your failure to get answers to your CQs, you need to examine your gear and your operating practices (you opened this idea up by alluding to calling CQ on an end-fed wire or mag loop on 12 meters). Nothing more was intended, and I'm sorry you took such offense. None was intended.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-02-29

B.S. I've never owned an amplifier and never will. My first HF antenna was a piece of wire wrapped around my attic ceiling and walls. I've moved it outdoors and it would fit into a 50x50 property and nobody sees it. I also use an Alex Loop at around 20W. I've received 5/9 reports from S.E. Finland, Africa, and southern Argentina. Problem is you O.F.s running your beams at 1500 watts, who spend the day on 75m providing 30-minute weather reports, bragging about a sale on 600 lbs of mule chow for your 13 pit bulls, taking up oodles of spectrum sounding like the Pope on AM, who won't answer a call unless the signal is making the light bulbs in your garage blink. If you took all the lame excuses out of this hobby you'd barely have anything left.
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-02-29

To KD2HPQ: You are correct in a sense that "anybody" can operate HF. But, I believe the more accurate statement is; "anybody can transmit on HF". When you're calling CQ are you doing so on an open band (these days, 20 during the day and 40/80 at night), and if your antenna effective? If you're operating QRP into an end-fed wire, and you're doing it on 12 meters (right now in the doldrums of the sunspot cycle), that's not going to work well at all. I do operate QRP part of the time, and admittedly, much of that is with a yagi, but some of it is on dipoles. I usually don't call CQ (unless I'm on the yagi) and instead, I try to find a QSO in progress with a strong station on one end, and at the end of the QSO, I'll call the strong station. I call CQ a lot and get answers a lot, though admittedly, I'm usually running 400 watts to an effective antenna. I answer many CQ's from people who are running 50-90 watts to a dipole. The ragchews (to get back to the original topic) are out there, folks. There are ways to get them if you use some simple operating techniques coupled with the right gear.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-02-29

"Dead bands" and the "HOA boogeyman" are excuses. Tired, lame, BULLSHIT excuses. Anyone can operate HF using an end fed or mag loop antenna, and you don't need 1,000,000 watts to make contacts. The problem is lack of participation, lack of activity, lack of interest, the aging of the hobby, and the TOTAL USELESSNESS of both local clubs and ARRL. March makes 4 years since I obtained my general class license. In 4 years of calling CQ at least 4-5 days a week, I have received exactly ONE response (outside of contests, when everyone is apparently your friend). That was from a local ham buddy who happened to be on 12 meters that day.
KF0QS2020-02-29
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
KD2HPQ:

My point was that, before you blame the whole hobby for your failure to get answers to your CQs, you need to examine your gear and your operating practices (you opened this idea up by alluding to calling CQ on an end-fed wire or mag loop on 12 meters). Nothing more was intended, and I'm sorry you took such offense. None was intended.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-02-29

B.S. I've never owned an amplifier and never will. My first HF antenna was a piece of wire wrapped around my attic ceiling and walls. I've moved it outdoors and it would fit into a 50x50 property and nobody sees it. I also use an Alex Loop at around 20W. I've received 5/9 reports from S.E. Finland, Africa, and southern Argentina. Problem is you O.F.s running your beams at 1500 watts, who spend the day on 75m providing 30-minute weather reports, bragging about a sale on 600 lbs of mule chow for your 13 pit bulls, taking up oodles of spectrum sounding like the Pope on AM, who won't answer a call unless the signal is making the light bulbs in your garage blink. If you took all the lame excuses out of this hobby you'd barely have anything left.
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-02-29

To KD2HPQ: You are correct in a sense that "anybody" can operate HF. But, I believe the more accurate statement is; "anybody can transmit on HF". When you're calling CQ are you doing so on an open band (these days, 20 during the day and 40/80 at night), and if your antenna effective? If you're operating QRP into an end-fed wire, and you're doing it on 12 meters (right now in the doldrums of the sunspot cycle), that's not going to work well at all. I do operate QRP part of the time, and admittedly, much of that is with a yagi, but some of it is on dipoles. I usually don't call CQ (unless I'm on the yagi) and instead, I try to find a QSO in progress with a strong station on one end, and at the end of the QSO, I'll call the strong station. I call CQ a lot and get answers a lot, though admittedly, I'm usually running 400 watts to an effective antenna. I answer many CQ's from people who are running 50-90 watts to a dipole. The ragchews (to get back to the original topic) are out there, folks. There are ways to get them if you use some simple operating techniques coupled with the right gear.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-02-29

"Dead bands" and the "HOA boogeyman" are excuses. Tired, lame, BULLSHIT excuses. Anyone can operate HF using an end fed or mag loop antenna, and you don't need 1,000,000 watts to make contacts. The problem is lack of participation, lack of activity, lack of interest, the aging of the hobby, and the TOTAL USELESSNESS of both local clubs and ARRL. March makes 4 years since I obtained my general class license. In 4 years of calling CQ at least 4-5 days a week, I have received exactly ONE response (outside of contests, when everyone is apparently your friend). That was from a local ham buddy who happened to be on 12 meters that day.
KD2HPQ2020-02-29
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
B.S. I've never owned an amplifier and never will. My first HF antenna was a piece of wire wrapped around my attic ceiling and walls. I've moved it outdoors and it would fit into a 50x50 property and nobody sees it. I also use an Alex Loop at around 20W. I've received 5/9 reports from S.E. Finland, Africa, and southern Argentina. Problem is you O.F.s running your beams at 1500 watts, who spend the day on 75m providing 30-minute weather reports, bragging about a sale on 600 lbs of mule chow for your 13 pit bulls, taking up oodles of spectrum sounding like the Pope on AM, who won't answer a call unless the signal is making the light bulbs in your garage blink. If you took all the lame excuses out of this hobby you'd barely have anything left.
Reply to a comment by : KF0QS on 2020-02-29

To KD2HPQ: You are correct in a sense that "anybody" can operate HF. But, I believe the more accurate statement is; "anybody can transmit on HF". When you're calling CQ are you doing so on an open band (these days, 20 during the day and 40/80 at night), and if your antenna effective? If you're operating QRP into an end-fed wire, and you're doing it on 12 meters (right now in the doldrums of the sunspot cycle), that's not going to work well at all. I do operate QRP part of the time, and admittedly, much of that is with a yagi, but some of it is on dipoles. I usually don't call CQ (unless I'm on the yagi) and instead, I try to find a QSO in progress with a strong station on one end, and at the end of the QSO, I'll call the strong station. I call CQ a lot and get answers a lot, though admittedly, I'm usually running 400 watts to an effective antenna. I answer many CQ's from people who are running 50-90 watts to a dipole. The ragchews (to get back to the original topic) are out there, folks. There are ways to get them if you use some simple operating techniques coupled with the right gear.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-02-29

"Dead bands" and the "HOA boogeyman" are excuses. Tired, lame, BULLSHIT excuses. Anyone can operate HF using an end fed or mag loop antenna, and you don't need 1,000,000 watts to make contacts. The problem is lack of participation, lack of activity, lack of interest, the aging of the hobby, and the TOTAL USELESSNESS of both local clubs and ARRL. March makes 4 years since I obtained my general class license. In 4 years of calling CQ at least 4-5 days a week, I have received exactly ONE response (outside of contests, when everyone is apparently your friend). That was from a local ham buddy who happened to be on 12 meters that day.
KF0QS2020-02-29
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
To KD2HPQ: You are correct in a sense that "anybody" can operate HF. But, I believe the more accurate statement is; "anybody can transmit on HF". When you're calling CQ are you doing so on an open band (these days, 20 during the day and 40/80 at night), and if your antenna effective? If you're operating QRP into an end-fed wire, and you're doing it on 12 meters (right now in the doldrums of the sunspot cycle), that's not going to work well at all.

I do operate QRP part of the time, and admittedly, much of that is with a yagi, but some of it is on dipoles. I usually don't call CQ (unless I'm on the yagi) and instead, I try to find a QSO in progress with a strong station on one end, and at the end of the QSO, I'll call the strong station.

I call CQ a lot and get answers a lot, though admittedly, I'm usually running 400 watts to an effective antenna. I answer many CQ's from people who are running 50-90 watts to a dipole.

The ragchews (to get back to the original topic) are out there, folks. There are ways to get them if you use some simple operating techniques coupled with the right gear.
Reply to a comment by : KD2HPQ on 2020-02-29

"Dead bands" and the "HOA boogeyman" are excuses. Tired, lame, BULLSHIT excuses. Anyone can operate HF using an end fed or mag loop antenna, and you don't need 1,000,000 watts to make contacts. The problem is lack of participation, lack of activity, lack of interest, the aging of the hobby, and the TOTAL USELESSNESS of both local clubs and ARRL. March makes 4 years since I obtained my general class license. In 4 years of calling CQ at least 4-5 days a week, I have received exactly ONE response (outside of contests, when everyone is apparently your friend). That was from a local ham buddy who happened to be on 12 meters that day.
N4KC2020-02-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
KD2HPQ:

Surely someone has told you that calling CQ on 12 meters at this point in the sunspot cycle is like whistling into a hurricane! For goodness sake, quit complaining about the lack of activity or the ARRL and call CQ on 20 during the day or 40 at night.

(Oh, and if you got a contest response on 12, that's truly amazing. No contest allows use of that band.)

By the way, if I hear you on that mag loop with low power, I will be honored to talk your ear off...

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com


KD2HPQ2020-02-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
"Dead bands" and the "HOA boogeyman" are excuses. Tired, lame, BULLSHIT excuses. Anyone can operate HF using an end fed or mag loop antenna, and you don't need 1,000,000 watts to make contacts. The problem is lack of participation, lack of activity, lack of interest, the aging of the hobby, and the TOTAL USELESSNESS of both local clubs and ARRL. March makes 4 years since I obtained my general class license. In 4 years of calling CQ at least 4-5 days a week, I have received exactly ONE response (outside of contests, when everyone is apparently your friend). That was from a local ham buddy who happened to be on 12 meters that day.
N4KC2020-02-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?

RE: the last two commenters

I agree that things that we might talk about on the air could be different today than they were 30 or 40 years ago when many of us became hams in our teens. But so are the topics and methods of communication used by most folks. Instead of how we modified a surplus transmitter or designed a simple, one-tube receiver and built it, we talk about ways to program a chip to decode a signal below the noise level or how we modified a kit we built to work on SLF.

Of course, we might also talk about how we did in the DX contest this past weekend, how we used FT-8 to get the last three countries we needed for DXCC on 160 or how we built a stealth antenna that the HOA will never see but that makes the current QSO possible.

Look, things change. And, for the most part, change is a good thing. Accepting and embracing that change is a bit difficult for some, though. But remember, you can still talk about that surplus mod or one-tube receiver, and there are plenty of us old codgers more than willing to engage. But there are myriad topics and interests that have come along and that will continue to appear that we will always have things to talk about. And plenty of us do. Assuming, of course, that you are willing to educate yourself so you will be able to keep up!

I just don't get why some of you guys think the bands are dead and it's hopeless to try to conjure up a chat. We have more bands than we once did and much wider portions of those bands devoted to SSB. We have far more modes than the old "voice and CW." We have repeaters almost up to the light spectrum. And we have so many more activities that attract a portion of the more than a million hams worldwide that it might appear that we have fewer guys just wanting to ragchew.

But turn on your radio, find a band that allows propagation, and get to talking. And, by the way, you may have to log off eHam and turn on the radio if you really want a nice QSO.

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com


NN2X2020-02-29
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
It is more than just the rag chew that went by...It was the experience of learning, which indirectly will causes a QSO..Let me explain..

Let me digress...

Most recently, I had a chance to work closely with NASA and X NASA engineers. There were many Ham operators that were the Engineers, and they owe their careers all due those days when you experimented, tested and designed through the Ham activities. I had the same experience. (Lead me to my career, and even indirectly I found my wife, but that is another story)

Ham radio can have the same effect today..But in my opinion not reaching young children in large enough numbers.

Both my son (Adam/ KI5FJE), who was 12 when he passed, and his friend (Samuel / N5TIP) who is now 17 years old, but also passed early, and by the way they are both accelerating in school. (Adam at 13, is attending full time college, and Samuel is Adam's tutor, and Samuel is honor student at his high school...Also, Adam will obtain maybe 12 credits towards his BSEE, just for passing the Ham Ticket!.

Back to Ham Radio..

I had my son experiment some, but to be honest he simply memorized the Ham Tech license in 10 days 15 minutes per day..

However, let me get back to the "Rag Chew" part

My son is shy, but when he did get on the air (If you will), guess what he was explaining?, It was about his experiment..It broke the ice, and he gained confidence in speaking to others on the Ham bands.

Our QSOs in the past (And still today) is speaking about the Ham equipment, but the experimental side there isn't enough, and hence the QSO will be closer to signal report, QTH, and 73's. There are those like myself, can strike a conversation anywhere, and using any topic, but for Ham operators the most common topic is the ham equipment and the experimentation

I would like to change that aspect...I have my ideas, but for sure part of the solution, is reaching more to the young children, and more of experimentation.

C U all on the Bands, NN2X, Tom



Reply to a comment by : KF7UDH on 2020-02-29

Many, many decades ago I realized that some of my high-school friends were members of something called the school radio club. They even had a station – W7BPN. I was fascinated when visiting their homes to see them busily winding coils, soldering circuits, etc, and discussing the finer points of various components. And going with them to the radio club meetings was also fascinating, as by sitting and listening I began to absorb the ins and outs of proper radio procedure, and listened (without understanding) to all the technical talk that was going back and forth – stuff that I desperately wanted to learn all about. QSOs in those days, as I remember them, were almost entirely about technical matters. Solving each others' problems with their rigs, explaining technical stuff to each other, etc. And the ARRL handbook and magazine provided lots of useful information about building radios and other components, as well as ways of experimenting with various circuits, components etc. Every once in a while, a new contact would be made, and someone would tack up a new and different, special sort of post-card on the wall that kept everyone reminded of how to make re-contact. So when I decided, at a very, very advanced age a few years ago, that I would finally get licensed, I was excited at the prospect of taking up where I had left off so many years ago. Sadly, almost all of that was gone. Radios that once were constantly changing experimental rigs are now merely appliances that one turns on and talks at, but not for very long. “QST” has become an ad agency for the builders and suppliers of those appliances, the innards of which cannot be experimented upon or otherwise messed with. QSOs are mere seconds long, between operators of $75,000 stations greedily grabbing enormous numbers of QSL cards for their massive collections, and never again making contact with any of the operators who sent them. Contesting seems to have taken over the bands, with the active assistance of the ARRL. // On a different but very much related note, I began my studies for my Technician and then my General licenses very excited about, finally, learning all the technical aspects about how radio signals are generated and propagated and received, only to realize about halfway through that process, that I was not learning such material at all – I was merely learning how to pass the tests! This has all been very disappointing to me, but I am finally figuring out how to get a halfway decent antenna up, and will go on calling “CQ” from my Kenwood TS-520 until the last, faint reply vanishes into the mists of FT8 . . .
KF7UDH2020-02-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Many, many decades ago I realized that some of my high-school friends were members of something called the school radio club. They even had a station – W7BPN. I was fascinated when visiting their homes to see them busily winding coils, soldering circuits, etc, and discussing the finer points of various components. And going with them to the radio club meetings was also fascinating, as by sitting and listening I began to absorb the ins and outs of proper radio procedure, and listened (without understanding) to all the technical talk that was going back and forth – stuff that I desperately wanted to learn all about.

QSOs in those days, as I remember them, were almost entirely about technical matters. Solving each others' problems with their rigs, explaining technical stuff to each other, etc. And the ARRL handbook and magazine provided lots of useful information about building radios and other components, as well as ways of experimenting with various circuits, components etc. Every once in a while, a new contact would be made, and someone would tack up a new and different, special sort of post-card on the wall that kept everyone reminded of how to make re-contact.

So when I decided, at a very, very advanced age a few years ago, that I would finally get licensed, I was excited at the prospect of taking up where I had left off so many years ago. Sadly, almost all of that was gone. Radios that once were constantly changing experimental rigs are now merely appliances that one turns on and talks at, but not for very long. “QST” has become an ad agency for the builders and suppliers of those appliances, the innards of which cannot be experimented upon or otherwise messed with. QSOs are mere seconds long, between operators of $75,000 stations greedily grabbing enormous numbers of QSL cards for their massive collections, and never again making contact with any of the operators who sent them. Contesting seems to have taken over the bands, with the active assistance of the ARRL.

//

On a different but very much related note, I began my studies for my Technician and then my General licenses very excited about, finally, learning all the technical aspects about how radio signals are generated and propagated and received, only to realize about halfway through that process, that I was not learning such material at all – I was merely learning how to pass the tests!

This has all been very disappointing to me, but I am finally figuring out how to get a halfway decent antenna up, and will go on calling “CQ” from my Kenwood TS-520 until the last, faint reply vanishes into the mists of FT8 . . .
W8LV2020-02-15
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
"HOA/CC&R antenna restrictions. Expanding on comment #1, the proliferation of such communities in the last 30 years prevents decent antennas and running higher power. It also prevents getting on HF altogether, relegating many to only using VHF/UHF HT's."

YES! And another reason to REMOVE THE HOA MAN from the process.... Entirely. Entirely!

73 DE W8LV Bill
Reply to a comment by : K7JQ on 2020-01-31

I've been a ham for 61 years, and I believe rag chewing is down from the "good old days". The reasons? I can only guess, but I can offer some thoughts: 1. Band conditions...current solar cycle. Propagation has been squirrelly for many years now, and once you try to start a conversation, QSB and quick propagation changes can abruptly take you out. It can somewhat be overcome when both stations have superior antennas and run high power. No one wants to strain their ears listening to a station in and out of the noise level. Low power/dipole antenna CQ's won't be answered. 2. HOA/CC&R antenna restrictions. Expanding on comment #1, the proliferation of such communities in the last 30 years prevents decent antennas and running higher power. It also prevents getting on HF altogether, relegating many to only using VHF/UHF HT's. 3. New digital modes. "The bands are dead"...you hear that all the time these days. Call CQ on CW or SSB, and no replies. Listen around, and crickets. But, tune over to the FT8 frequencies...boom! S5-9 signals all over those segments. It's now a computer-talking-to-a-computer thing. If some of those folks decided to maybe punch their mode switches to CW or SSB, maybe some old fashioned rag chewing could be initiated. Don't rag on me...I'm an old fart 74 yo that still uses a flip phone :-). 4. People don't "talk" to each other anymore. Society in general has accepted texting over talking. Folks have lost the ability or initiative to actually carry on a conversation, preferring to communicate in little brief snippets of information. You'd think that only the "young-uns" would be into that, but many seniors have also adapted and gotten used to it. There has always been contesters and DXers that prefer the "wham-bam, thank you ma'am" quickie QSO. But society, living conditions, and technology have changed. So have our forms of communication. 73, Bob K7JQ
W8AJS2020-02-15
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Just a note , I do most my rag chewing on CW due to the consistency of SSB stations trying to sound like an AM Broadcast station with audio that in my opinion sounds absolutely absurd.
Reply to a comment by : AI4BJ on 2020-02-11

G8FXC: I agree. I can have a 20-minute CW QSO and at the end of it all I will usually know is his/her name, QTH, rig/antenna, and weather. I can learn most of these things by looking at their profile on QRZ.com. Don't get me wrong -- I love CW, but if I really want to get to know someone, nothing beats a friendly one-on-one voice conversation.
Reply to a comment by : G8FXC on 2020-02-11

CW rag chewing is an interesting concept, really. A decent telephony rag chew lasts what? Ten minutes? That's a pretty short rag chew by my standards! According to virtualspeech.com "... the average conversation rate for English speakers in the United States is about 150 wpm. However for radio presenters or podcasters, the wpm is higher." Now, 20wpm is a pretty good non-contest CW rate - less than one seventh of that speech rate - so even a short rag chew is going to be pushing an hour!
NO9E2020-02-13
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Few stations answer my CQ when I am on a dipole. More when I use a low beam. Lots with a high beam. Unending stream operating from a contester location.

Many stations especially of younger hams from HOA are weak and they don't want to ragchew when their signals are barely heard.

17m used to be a ragchewer band. Was dead last year and now slowly coming up.

Ignacy, NO9E
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
AI4BJ2020-02-11
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
G8FXC: I agree. I can have a 20-minute CW QSO and at the end of it all I will usually know is his/her name, QTH, rig/antenna, and weather. I can learn most of these things by looking at their profile on QRZ.com.

Don't get me wrong -- I love CW, but if I really want to get to know someone, nothing beats a friendly one-on-one voice conversation.
Reply to a comment by : G8FXC on 2020-02-11

CW rag chewing is an interesting concept, really. A decent telephony rag chew lasts what? Ten minutes? That's a pretty short rag chew by my standards! According to virtualspeech.com "... the average conversation rate for English speakers in the United States is about 150 wpm. However for radio presenters or podcasters, the wpm is higher." Now, 20wpm is a pretty good non-contest CW rate - less than one seventh of that speech rate - so even a short rag chew is going to be pushing an hour!
G8FXC2020-02-11
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
CW rag chewing is an interesting concept, really. A decent telephony rag chew lasts what? Ten minutes? That's a pretty short rag chew by my standards! According to virtualspeech.com "... the average conversation rate for English speakers in the United States is about 150 wpm. However for radio presenters or podcasters, the wpm is higher." Now, 20wpm is a pretty good non-contest CW rate - less than one seventh of that speech rate - so even a short rag chew is going to be pushing an hour!
N3DXD2020-02-11
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Hello everyone. Well for me I’ll say I try in every contact to have a QSO I believe in conversations. I rather have a few long contacts than lots with just a signal report. But to answer the question For me it’s mostly rag chewing local in the states or across the pond rag chew is what I do . 73s
KF0QS2020-02-09
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
AJ6KZ: Stay on CW and look for me. I'm on the air a lot, and I love to ragchew. Those QSO's are out there, especially on CW (see my post below).

73.
Reply to a comment by : AJ6KZ on 2020-02-09

I see there is a lot of wistful bitterness about this topic, and I can understand some of that. However, let me say that I am brand new to the hobby and am interested in ONLY getting to the rag-chew stage. Currently I'm getting up to speed (it's hard work for me) on CW and I'm looking forward to making lots of contacts for the sake of making contacts. I'm not interested in contests or digital modes where no human interaction occurs. So, take heart and rebel by getting on the air with me!
AJ6KZ2020-02-09
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I see there is a lot of wistful bitterness about this topic, and I can understand some of that. However, let me say that I am brand new to the hobby and am interested in ONLY getting to the rag-chew stage. Currently I'm getting up to speed (it's hard work for me) on CW and I'm looking forward to making lots of contacts for the sake of making contacts. I'm not interested in contests or digital modes where no human interaction occurs.

So, take heart and rebel by getting on the air with me!
G8FXC2020-02-06
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Even in the current band conditions, I think there are a lot of people listening - it is simply the case that most of them are not interested in chatting. Amateur radio has become a collector's hobby - a bit like bird spotting, but collecting DX or other unusual callsigns instead. I spend a lot of time on my boat and have, on several occasions, driven from my house to the boat calling "CQ, CQ, this is G8FXC mobile calling..." - nothing... I've arrived at the boat, pulled the rig out of the car, plugged it up on the boat and put out a "CQ from G8FXC maritime mobile..." and ended up under a small pile-up of people wanting a /MM in the log...
G7HFS2020-02-05
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
K7JQ I totally agree with your comments.Some folks appear to have lost the art of conversation and just sit in front of there keyboards and DON'T SPEAK anymore.
How boring is that!!????????73.Ian G7HFS
Reply to a comment by : K7JQ on 2020-01-31

I've been a ham for 61 years, and I believe rag chewing is down from the "good old days". The reasons? I can only guess, but I can offer some thoughts: 1. Band conditions...current solar cycle. Propagation has been squirrelly for many years now, and once you try to start a conversation, QSB and quick propagation changes can abruptly take you out. It can somewhat be overcome when both stations have superior antennas and run high power. No one wants to strain their ears listening to a station in and out of the noise level. Low power/dipole antenna CQ's won't be answered. 2. HOA/CC&R antenna restrictions. Expanding on comment #1, the proliferation of such communities in the last 30 years prevents decent antennas and running higher power. It also prevents getting on HF altogether, relegating many to only using VHF/UHF HT's. 3. New digital modes. "The bands are dead"...you hear that all the time these days. Call CQ on CW or SSB, and no replies. Listen around, and crickets. But, tune over to the FT8 frequencies...boom! S5-9 signals all over those segments. It's now a computer-talking-to-a-computer thing. If some of those folks decided to maybe punch their mode switches to CW or SSB, maybe some old fashioned rag chewing could be initiated. Don't rag on me...I'm an old fart 74 yo that still uses a flip phone :-). 4. People don't "talk" to each other anymore. Society in general has accepted texting over talking. Folks have lost the ability or initiative to actually carry on a conversation, preferring to communicate in little brief snippets of information. You'd think that only the "young-uns" would be into that, but many seniors have also adapted and gotten used to it. There has always been contesters and DXers that prefer the "wham-bam, thank you ma'am" quickie QSO. But society, living conditions, and technology have changed. So have our forms of communication. 73, Bob K7JQ
WB8UHZ2020-02-04
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Try something different AM phone not SSB on 3.870 to 3.890 and other spots on 75 meters such as 3.705 to 3.725 as well as 40 meters 7.295 and 7.290 as well as 7.160, day or night Also in the AM window on 160 meters on 1.880 or 1.885. You can use a modern rig or an older AM boat anchor, lots of people calling CQ, lots of rag chewing and many many good contacts.

73 Tim
WB8UHZ
K3DGR2020-02-04
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
...Time of day plays a big part.. Lots of rag chewers on 40m and 80m mornings and eveings on the CW portion... 73's Dave,k3dgr
AB9HP2020-02-04
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
As said before , theres always something for ever Ham out there. Ive been in the Hobby quite a few years,For me not to much for nets ,Unless its in form of disaster help of sorts. Its all about communications, myself i like having a QSO with someone talking about either a hams setup, how he or she got into amateur radio, talking to someone overseas to me is a lot of fun normal family stuff, how other Country's are. I seldom use my amp, only when needed and even at that run a few hundred watts. I do very little ft8, some sstv. I guess whatever your thing is, do it and have fun!
KD2HPQ2020-02-03
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Yes there's something for everyone, provided you are willing to learn every blessed thing on your own and are willing to put up with a TON of frustration and BS from old timers along the way. I belong to two clubs and am wondering which one has done more to discourage people from the hobby, the one that holds 12 meetings per year and one actual radio event, or the one that holds 24 meetings per year and exactly one event per year when people actually get on the radio. That's 36 freaking meetings per year but just two radio events. The other meetings are to discuss the nail polish color our treasurer prefers, whether to use two- or four-ply napkins at the holiday party, and whether to spring for the extra $9 for ABC vs. XYZ grounding braid at the repeater.

If you gave this hobby a nostalgia enema you could bury it and every ham licensed before 2010 in a match box.
Reply to a comment by : K4EQ on 2020-02-02

I've been hearing the same complaint for at least the past 40 years or so. I'm not sure if there are actually more nets on the air or not, but does it really matter? The beauty of our hobby is there's something for everyone. Not everyone enjoys rag chewing. Before retiring, I was in a profession where I was interacting all day with many people. The last thing I wanted to do at night was get on the radio and talk with somebody. A net, CW, or chasing DX was my way to unwind.
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
KD2HPQ2020-02-03
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Aren't those frequencies in the "Extra" band plan? I was just kicked off of -- miracle of miracles -- a net that one of the ever-loving "ELMERS" decided to run below my privilege frequency.
Reply to a comment by : AI4BJ on 2020-02-01

We seem to have dropped below the critical mass of SSB operators that provides a reasonable probability of having a CQ answered on a random frequency. Perhaps we should take a page from CW QRP operators, and designate a "ragchew calling frequency" on each HF band. I know that if I call CQ near 14.060 MHz or 7.030 MHz, there is a better than 50/50 chance that someone will answer me.
VK2LEE2020-02-03
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Well, that seems to be the way it's going until early November last year I checked the 10 meter band on SSB and behold it is working on & off, but when You do make a contact, You can talk as long as the band is open... I just love it and other Hams I have contacted all say the same thing. So, I have had many 30 minute rag chewing contacts many smaller in length due to conditions., but I'm loving it... I have even had a few FM 10 meter contacts too..... VK2LEE
K4EQ2020-02-02
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I've been hearing the same complaint for at least the past 40 years or so. I'm not sure if there are actually more nets on the air or not, but does it really matter? The beauty of our hobby is there's something for everyone. Not everyone enjoys rag chewing. Before retiring, I was in a profession where I was interacting all day with many people. The last thing I wanted to do at night was get on the radio and talk with somebody. A net, CW, or chasing DX was my way to unwind.
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
N4KC2020-02-01
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
It occurs to me that if we spent as much time listening on the bands and calling CQ as we do reading and commenting on web sites about the lack of activity, there would be plenty of conversation to suit everyone.

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com


AI4BJ2020-02-01
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
We seem to have dropped below the critical mass of SSB operators that provides a reasonable probability of having a CQ answered on a random frequency. Perhaps we should take a page from CW QRP operators, and designate a "ragchew calling frequency" on each HF band. I know that if I call CQ near 14.060 MHz or 7.030 MHz, there is a better than 50/50 chance that someone will answer me.
KF0QS2020-02-01
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
On HF, I am exclusively a CW operator. I call CQ and get answers reasonably frequently (not always). I've even received answers running QRP (though admittedly, I frequently get a QSO on QRP by calling someone right after they've finished a prior QSO).

I have gotten into a number of ragchews as well, on 80,40, 30 and 20. Indeed, I've had two in the last month that lasted about 90 minutes and a couple more that lasted an hour (I've lost track of how many went at least 30 minutes).

I agree that band conditions sometimes are not favorable. I do get disappointed when someone exchanges RST,QTH, name, wx and rig and then says "Tks FB QSO", but I'll live with that. I do sometimes get tired of contests left and right, but understand that some people need that to get incentivized to get on the air.

All in all, maybe it's the difference between CW and SSB?

I will say that I also agree with K7JQ's comments regarding HOA restrictions (and it doesn't help to say "just don't move there" when I live in an area where most newer housing has HOA restrictions), and digital modes (I have done some PSK31 and will likely try some FT-8, but I prefer a live conversation).

Please don't give up on ham radio! I want to work you and have a ragchew.
K7JQ2020-01-31
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I've been a ham for 61 years, and I believe rag chewing is down from the "good old days". The reasons? I can only guess, but I can offer some thoughts:

1. Band conditions...current solar cycle. Propagation has been squirrelly for many years now, and once you try to start a conversation, QSB and quick propagation changes can abruptly take you out. It can somewhat be overcome when both stations have superior antennas and run high power. No one wants to strain their ears listening to a station in and out of the noise level. Low power/dipole antenna CQ's won't be answered.

2. HOA/CC&R antenna restrictions. Expanding on comment #1, the proliferation of such communities in the last 30 years prevents decent antennas and running higher power. It also prevents getting on HF altogether, relegating many to only using VHF/UHF HT's.

3. New digital modes. "The bands are dead"...you hear that all the time these days. Call CQ on CW or SSB, and no replies. Listen around, and crickets. But, tune over to the FT8 frequencies...boom! S5-9 signals all over those segments. It's now a computer-talking-to-a-computer thing. If some of those folks decided to maybe punch their mode switches to CW or SSB, maybe some old fashioned rag chewing could be initiated. Don't rag on me...I'm an old fart 74 yo that still uses a flip phone :-).

4. People don't "talk" to each other anymore. Society in general has accepted texting over talking. Folks have lost the ability or initiative to actually carry on a conversation, preferring to communicate in little brief snippets of information. You'd think that only the "young-uns" would be into that, but many seniors have also adapted and gotten used to it.

There has always been contesters and DXers that prefer the "wham-bam, thank you ma'am" quickie QSO. But society, living conditions, and technology have changed. So have our forms of communication.

73, Bob K7JQ
KD2HPQ2020-01-31
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
The larger question is what's happened to ham radio in general. The Youtube channels show pileups after someone calls CQ on 20m using 5W through a half-full can of beans as an antenna at 10:30pm. I've been calling CQ since March, 2016. Except for contests, I've received ZERO responses. They say the bands are dead but it's the operators who are bereft of life. Why have I never, ever heard, except for repeater rats, a single person on 10m (or 6m for that matter), but when I tune down to 11m I hear activity? Why does the guy in Washington hear me on 20m, 20 watts output, but the guys in Pittsburgh ignore my signal, even at 90W? Why have 80/75m turned into the on-air version of Yahoo Chat?

The clubs are to blame in large part. I belong to a club which holds 24 meetings per year to discuss whether to paint the repeater tower pink or green, whether the napkins at the holiday party should be patterned or plain, and if they should spend $8 per month on an 800 number, but holds exactly ONE event per year where anybody actually uses a radio.

Don't even get me started on ARRL. In 100 years you'd think an organization, especially one that has been suffering from a brain drain and natural attrition for decades, could put together a readable, accessible course for learning how to operate radio equipment. Instead they publish 45-lb mini-encyclopedic collections of articles that invariably begin somewhere in the middle of a topic (after the obligatory chapter on defining Hz, HF/UHF, and a review of decimals). Could the editor of ARRL's massive Antenna Book have perhaps begun with a chapter or two on how antennas work?

The American Contract Bridge League -- you know bridge the card game -- began down a similar path about 40 years ago. ACBL hands out meaningless "masterpoints" but the awards kept getting larger and larger. It takes 300 master points to become a "life master" but there are now THOUSANDS of individuals with tens of thousands of these meaningless points.

Does anybody remember the name of the fellow who won the 1-h-November-November-Charlie CW award during 2019 Field Day? Did they even spell his name correctly in QST?

Sometimes I feel that if you gave ham radio a huge "nostalgia enema" you could fit the entire hobby inside a matchbox.
N5DWP2020-01-31
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I’ve been licensed since 1979. I had become inactive and then about six years ago got back into the hobby. Nets and contests aren’t my thing. After years of very few long or interesting QSO's, I sold all my HF equipment. The hobby isn’t the same. I still have VHF/UHF equipment but that may go by the wayside soon. People just don’t like talking anymore. With 2 meter radios cheaper than ever, I would think that the repeaters would be full. But they are mostly dead air.
KC0NIB2020-01-30
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I still rag chew quite regularly. One of the reasons to get back into HF again. And it's fun. Yeah, there are a lot of contests and nets, but I can usually move and find a group and chime on in.
KB0QIP2020-01-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Retired last June 2019, WOW I can now get to do some Ham Radio stuff. Got a antenna up right after we moved, set a desk up in the bedroom while waiting on a plan to build a shack. Wife got laidoff, hired by another company in her field in a couple weeks. Great, but she now works from home at my desk. Still have to build the shack, this time outside. I do sometimes get to turn the radio on at night but there isnt too much on 20, and i dont have a amp , just 90 watts, very few want to talk to a low signal. Im working on a better antenna or 2 and hope to be on the air real soon. Just have to keep trying. Checking into nets is cool, but I really want to ragchew. thats alot of fun. Hope to see you on the radio soon
K8QV2020-01-29
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
"Chewing the Rag" is not my thing, but I do hear it all the time on HF. I also hear nets, dx and contests. Something for everyone.
K0UA2020-01-28
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Again, I called CQ DX yesterday morning on 20 meter SSB and had nice long QSO's with a station in Denmark, and a long QSO with a station in Norway. These were not just "hello goodby" dx contacts but honest ragchews. I am not normally a ragchewer, as my prime interest at this time is DX'ing for awards, but If I can do it with my modest station (MA5B mini beam at 13 meters above ground) and a small amp running about 600 watts PEP, than I think just about anyone could find someone to talk with. I am beginning to believe this issue is pretty much a non-problem. Those are my thoughts, and now I am going to go back to chasing DX on the FT8 "darkside" with some CW thrown in where applicable. 73 James K0UA
KW6LA2020-01-28
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
At the bottom of a cycle just a dipole and less than 100 watts, no ones wants to bend their ear for a rag chew. It will get better in a couple of years. I drank the cool-aid
no amp for a long time, but when I went QRO Bingo ... more people would hold a longer QSO! One more .. your
audio quality matters on SSB. The DX or Juice can will cut it short if its realy bad. Hold your own and make it a conversation, Good audio and put as much fire in the wire as you can. We ARE at the bottom of the cycle!!!
KF4HR2020-01-28
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
There are still many CQ's sent on CW, PSK31 and other digital modes, SSB and AM, not as often. I estimate that perhaps 1 in 200 QSO's which were initiated by a CQ, results in a Rag Chew. Most of the time people send 2 or 3 pre-programmed messages or recite the common theme (RST, Name, QTH, Ant, Rig, Power Level), then send their 73. But on occasion an interesting conversation pops up. The key to starting an interesting conversation is to state what some of your other interests are so some common ground can be found (beyond both parties just passing a multiple choice test).
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
AA1UY2020-01-28
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I assume you're talking about SSB QSOs and i concur, however, I think you'll find plenty of rag chewing going on on CW, I always do.

N2RRA2020-01-27
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
K
Reply to a comment by : KB2DHG on 2020-01-27

Been a Ham for over 33 years. How I miss those days of long QSO's But I don't think the old school rag chew is totally dead. What I do is try to entice the operator to talk about them selves, What they do for a living, other hobbies. and when I do the QSO can go on for hours... I think we tend to get in that rut of signal reports, What Rigs we are using, antenna and QTH then go sour! The next time you make a contact try asking the operator about them selves. AND you just might be surprised to find a ham with other interest that maybe even you are interested in and the conversations can go on and on!
KB2DHG2020-01-27
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Been a Ham for over 33 years. How I miss those days of long QSO's But I don't think the old school rag chew is totally dead. What I do is try to entice the operator to talk about them selves, What they do for a living, other hobbies. and when I do the QSO can go on for hours... I think we tend to get in that rut of signal reports, What Rigs we are using, antenna and QTH then go sour!
The next time you make a contact try asking the operator about them selves. AND you just might be surprised to find a ham with other interest that maybe even you are interested in and the conversations can go on and on!
W5DXP2020-01-27
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Some of us are more interested in discussing the technology involved with amateur radio than rag-chewing or rag-chewing nets. My favorite subject is HF antennas.
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
K0UA2020-01-27
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I dunno guys. I called CQ one time on 3695 tonite and got VE3ROR and we talked for some time and WS8B broke in and we talked for over an hour.. Seems like a rag chew to me. I do agree though that some hams cannot carry a conversation in a bucket, but it certainly is not true for all. By the way I am a DX chasing nut, and yes much of it is on FT8, but SSB and CW as well, but sometimes I like to just chat for a while, and I have been pretty successful at doing that. 73 James K0UA
N4KC2020-01-27
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?

Gee, you guys are skewing all negative aren't you? Look, nets are fine for those who want to do them, and clearly many hams do. Some of them do their fair share of ragchewing, too. The author of this "article" may want to listen around for some that will allow him to elucidate all he wants to.

I would venture to say that the fine art of conversation is waning these days in general, thanks to social media...people texting, tweeting and...ahem...making hasty comments on web forums. Hard to carry on a conversation with an iPhone in front of your face. Lack of conversation is probably no more prevalent on the ham bands than it is in society in general.

But I would also suggest that there is plenty of chat to be had on the bands. Maximize your antenna and rig so you have decent chances of communicating with more people. Pick the bit of spectrum on which propagation is best for long give-and-take. Avoid known nets or long-standing roundtables. Use other modes to chew the fat, including CW, RTTY, Olivia and others. Listen for QSOs on the verge of ending and give one of its participants a call. Be prepared to make the conversation interesting...for both or all of those talking. Don't be a monologist, hogging all the time with your own bloviation. Let the other guy(s) and gal(s) have their say, but offer plenty of opportunity for the others to have something you've brought to the hookup on which to comment. Be interested in what the others are talking about by commenting on it and asking questions. Be a good listener! And yes, call CQ, and include in your call the fact that you are looking for a nice chat, not just a quickie.

I won't even address the my-computer-working-your-computer nonsense. The digital modes are interesting, exciting, fulfilling...all the same things we get from a nice ragchew but not in the free form way we typically think of it. And FT8 has gotten me 30 countries closer to 160 meter DXCC in the last two months.

See, that's the beauty of our hobby...something for everyone. If it doesn't interest you, don't worry about it. There are plenty of other aspects you can enjoy...and make even better by your participation.

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com


K6CRC2020-01-27
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I have been a ham about 12 years. At first, I had a number of interesting QSOs on HF. Old cars, people who use to work in my area of tech, or just random conversations with nice people. Not so much anymore. Maybe it is sunspots, maybe something else. Sees fewer people answer CQs now.

I am thinking it is the changing nature of the hobby and the people still in it. Just the way it is.
KA9LBI2020-01-27
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT AN HONEST QSO/RAG CHEW. I THINK IT WAS THE FEB 2020 ISSUE OF QST THAT I LOOKED AT. THE MONTH WAS BASICALLY CONTEST OF SOME SORTS. I THINK IT IS EASY TO SEE WHO IS TO PUT BLAME ON BUT THAT WOULD NOT MATTER MUCH BECAUSE THE CONTESTERS OUT NUMBER THE REMAINING GROUP. TO ME THERE IS MORE THAN POINTS, MUTIPLIERS AND QSL CARDS FOR A UR 59 QRZ.
N2RRA2020-01-26
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Right away you’ll see words like “Click Bait” “anti net” “nets save lives” and all the reasons for having nets. I’m not fond of nets, but I’m certainly not anti-net. I think it’s good too have some nets and I participate in a couple, but nets have gotten way outta hand with their liberal monopolized superior must have attitude.
I can relate very much too the authors concern and thoughts and this is why.

For example, nets complain about contest weekends. The very same nets that run their very same net 7 days a week around the clock till the propagation ends. The ones who complain about contest weekends are not the ones who call CQ and rag chew all the time, but the ones who participate in nets that mostly listen all the time. Then some move on too the next band and do the same thing. As if “five days a week” isn’t good enough for them they need the last remaining two days too make it seven. What is that? That’s narcism. In fact, so narcissistic that they will still hold a net during a contest weekend knowing year after year that same contest takes place having zero consideration that they run their net 5 days a week. Is it right their not willing too be reasonable and compromise? What is that? When does it end?

Nets have found a circle of hams that are not like hams of yesteryear and even some present. They have found the no code, non technical interested, recluse, timid and non conversational types is in part the reason for lack of CQ’ers and rag chews on the air. They don’t have much too say as it is and so nets allow that little bit of conversation they need and a whole lot of listening. For some it seems it’s good enough to feel their a part of something that makes sense, but it just doesn’t. The chatter during these nets speak for itself. For example, there’s 20-50 people on a net list and when they reach person number 25 they speak for 1 minute if that. LOL, really? How dull and crazy. Might be good too kill some time while multitasking and participate, but too do that all day everyday? CRAZY, if you ask me. Hey, too each their own I guess.

So yes, there are more nets than hams calling CQ and rag chews. Mainly cause hams in the last 15 years to present and hopefully not the future lack conversational skills. HELL, when I do answer a CQ call, or receive a response too my CQ call with some the conversation is so brief and dull it’s no wonder why they cut themselves short. Just doesn’t make sense too become a ham and spend money on gear to not utilize their microphones at least. Think that’s why digital modes are so popular for some. It’s like web social media types. We’ve all said how the internet digital world has reduced intellectual human too human contact and conversation. Same thing here.

That’s my rant, my findings, my opinion and what I see as facts. The proof is in the pudding they say. Actions speak volume. The same patterns daily. Just observe for yourself. How can it be denied?

I know this post will ruffle feathers and the back lash will be filled with anti this and conspiracy theory’s, but as I said. Observe yourself. Actions tell the truth. Meaning, monitor these nets. It’ll prove precisely my findings.

Cheers and 73
WS7X2020-01-26
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Although I suspect this topic is just clickbait...designed to get people to respond I will take the bait anyway.
And although I haven't been licensed quite as long I feel the ragchew is alive and well, especially considering the poor band conditions. I am not a big fan of nets either, but I have participated in a few when it suited my purposes. I did the WAS nets for a few years in my early ham years for example. And I have checked into SATURN and the like from time to time.
I do agree there does seem to be lots of nets on 40 meters. but I also hear and answer many cqs all the time as well. The nets are just there every singe day! So maybe they seem more pervasive. And if you're not into nets they may seem to be all there is on the band. I guess its just like contesting... if you don't like them, you will find them every where you look. But again I have some favorite contests too. Just find a clear freq and call cq if you're looking for a good chat. You will still find one. If you're not getting an answer, its just the poor band conditions. I bet if you have and fire up the amp you'll get plenty of answers.

Join me for a good ragchew anyday you hear my call

Best of 73
WS7X
Noel
KJ4DGE2020-01-26
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
When conditions get good again (whenever that may be) you will be surprised what you hear. A 1 to 1 QSO is always possible if someone calls CQ and someone else comes back to them. I have had some great conversations on HF doing just that. Yes right now nets are pretty much what you will find on most of time. Down on 80 you can get into a good local round table at times in the middle of night.

2 meters? Try calling CQ on 146.520. IT may take awhile but I had a nice long-winded conversation with a local person here in VA that was testing his home brew Yagi into his 5 watt radio.

The days of tons of one on one HF qso's may be limited from the past that occurred 50 years ago, but you can still find them, don't give up hope.
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
N3HKN2020-01-26
Re: What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
I fully agree. Nets do not replace QSO's. They have a purpose, but not for conversation. I am seriously considering putting up the For Sale sign on my Ham stuff. Might keep VHF-FM but even that is dwindling. I started with that a very long time ago and may well end with it.

I used 90 watts on 40M FT8 and made a contact with my attic dipole. My PC talked to the other PC and they had a "QSO" along with an official log record. That was NOT Ham Radio.

Talking to Admiral Byrd at the North Pole was a real treat in the "old-days". Today, you can call the South Pole on your cell-phone.

You anxiously await the next QST magazine to see if that investment of $15,000 (tower, antenna, radio) got you a place in the magazine's endless contests. As you scan the contest pages, your PC is making more FT8 contacts all over the world.
Reply to a comment by : KE6SLS on 2020-01-26

Dear Anonymous, Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article. However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing! Check them out some evening. http://www.wccnet.us/index.html http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC 73 Jaye ke6sls
KE6SLS2020-01-26
What's Happened to Rag Chewing?
Dear Anonymous,

Not sure if you want to keep secret or if there was an error submitting this article.

However, I would like you to check out the Country Cousins nets. I am member of two (Western and Northwestern) of the nets I can hear. Great folks and we are very much into rag chewing!

Check them out some evening.
http://www.wccnet.us/index.html
http://www.nw7cc.net/index.html
http://www.hamdata.com/mwcc.html
https://groups.io/g/WW4SCC

73
Jaye ke6sls